Posts by debator

75

Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

by sabastious in

this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

it basically says this:.

"it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

debator

Hi brotherdan

But I think they are preaching the right doctrine. You are right there preaching is irrelevent if you haven't got the doctrine right

Trinity needed lie scriptures for 1 john 5:7 to be put in the bible in the 15th century. Why would God use a doctrine that needs lies and false scriptures? Constantly changing and murky to fit different denominations.

IMO the witnesses are a million miles more accurate than the blinkered christendom still mired in 1700 year old greco/roman doctrine put on the Bible.

You put an awful lot of emphasis on charity works but you forget that Jesus talked about preaching as feeding etc you miss the whole point of his coming to us which isn't just to feed poor in a literal way but in a spiritual way which is our main command.

Physical food will only prolong life in this world it is the spiritual food of teaching God's word that saves.

John 6:27
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

Which is a greater good? handing a loaf to a poor person for a meal patting him on the head in your superiority of riches or teaching him to be a better person by God's standards so he can help himself and others as your equal and fellow Christian literally saving lifes by preachign god's kingdom?

I have great respect for literal charities that we have in this world but there are plenty of them but only one that feeds people the accurate life-saving biblical spiritual food that they need so badly and they are the Jehovah's witnesses.

Do you not consider spirituality important anymore?

45

If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

by minimus in

jw
friends

hmmm.

either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

it never was the "truth" in the first place..

debator

Fallacy Argument.

The time we were chosen was when Jesus was among us.

This one sentence shows the responsibility toChristians from that point in history.

Luke 12:43
It will be good for that servant whom the master findsdoing so when he returns.

They are doing what the master wants when he finds them..

Why are we given the bible?

We will be judge by who actually use it accurately rather than their own unbiblical doctrine.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Why do these arguments always try and make a case for God having a magical wand and going abracadabra on someone rather than showing that we are given the bible to use and the People using it will be noticiable in the time of the end?

Witnesses use all the Bible it makes us use God's name Jehovah, it makes us preach about his kingdom and actual son Jesus, it makes our shepherds work for us as per bible instruction, it makes us gather together in congregations, it makes us recognise what Jehovah likes and dislikes, it makes us reject the celebrations and culture of the world around us. It makes us pray to Jehovah asking him rather than anyone else. It gives us the answers we need.

John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

I think this argument is simply abdicating our responsibility to Jehovah as his people and to his word.

45

If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

by minimus in

jw
friends

hmmm.

either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

it never was the "truth" in the first place..

debator

Hi sab

Are you now talking about trinitarianism?

That is a predicted delusion.

75

Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

by sabastious in

this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

it basically says this:.

"it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

debator

Hi Brotherdan

You keep trying to say I'm saying salvation by works but that is not the point. It is that true faith inspires works. When looking at Abraham, moses, David etc they all made mistakes throughout their lifes but they had faith and it showed in their works despite their imperfection.

How do I know Jehovah's witnesses are Jehovah's people I recognise them by the works that their faith inspires.

hebrews 11:36Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned [f] ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Maybe the point is to subtle for you to understand?

75

Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

by sabastious in

this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

it basically says this:.

"it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

debator

Using imperfection of man as an argument is just silly. It has always about what God's people do despite making mistakes and how much we have faith in Jehovah rather than pointing the finger at our imperfection.

One of the reasons I am a Jehovah's witness is there ability to recognise and be refined from mistakes that they accept will happen.

Daniel 11:35
Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

That ability to recognise and rectify mistakes means they do listen to the bible and do the commands we are given like preaching work, using God's name, reocgnising simple bible truths etc.

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'Jehovah is our God.' "

The real question is why doesn't faith in God inspire christendom to do the preaching work first and formost?

45

If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

by minimus in

jw
friends

hmmm.

either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

it never was the "truth" in the first place..

debator

Unbilbical argument.

Being Chosen by Jehovah never made imperfect men perfect or without mistakes. Which they continued to do despite being chosen.

Jehovah has always allowed humans a certain autonomy with regards to freewill and occasionally we go to far and make mistakes. The bible is there to straighten out these mistakes that will happen.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

If God could just reach and zap us into getting everything right we would not need the bible.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi caliber

If it was just personal celebrations with no wider extensive implications, why do Birthdays and Jesus's (pretend) birthday Make billions for those in trade and by extension Government taxes every year?

Hi 3dogs

your point was of-topic.

Hi bek

You illustrate why People embrace these Pagan feastdays on leaving Witnesses they no longer accept Biblical guidance and embrace all the world has to offer.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi Mary

The validity of Baptism is that it was biblically recognised as an act that commits you to your belief of a particular faith whichever you choose. Like getting married to whichever man you choose. Most religions have their forms of marriage or indeed Baptism. Marriage is not Pagan because other Religions choose to do it among their people as well. The same goes with Baptism.

That being said we wouldn't baptize our children to the Sun god Ra if we were catholics or to Baal if we are Buddhists.

Therefore why do we have celebrations from Pagan practices made over to Christianity?

Pagan celebrations are condemned, Birthdays were and still are Pagan celebrations. That is the bible principle involved (Mrs jones)

Please understand the meaning of celebrating something to the degree that it becomes sacred, special and untoucheable in your eyes? These Pagan feastdays do not honour Jehovah and a token tag on his son does not honour Jesus either. If they are not so important to you and the world why this debate?

Why not just accept we as Jehovah's witnesses simply follow the early Christian and Jesus's own example in not doing them.

The rest of your words were just an ad hominen attack. Do you think that stuff would upset me? I find it simply indicates a personis resorting to insults from a losing postion.

202

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

by sabastious in

humans are unique.

each one is unique in his/her own regard.

like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

debator

Hi the finger

This topic is about birthday and Christmas celebrations that Pagans do. Not various things you have against Jehovah's witnesses. BTW Christians have been preaching the nearness of "the end" since the apostles if we lied by your reasoning the apostles lied too.

Hi Aguest

Jesus was a Jew and he didn't break one Jewish law and Jews didn't celebrate Birthdays. Your appeal to mystery using that scripture as a loophole is very weak. If it needed to be known it would have been written.

Job was not a jew and it is not established that what is mentioned extremely vaguely in the book Job is actually a birthday. This is read into it.

Again celebrations of an actual event are not licence to annualise the event, choosing a date from the nearest Pagan religion and keeping it's practises because Jehovah in his omnipitence did not anticipate our need to know Jesus's birthday! or did he! In fact did he also know exactly what we would do with it? And this is why we have 4 gospels without even a clue as to the timing of his Birth.

If you need it to be written specifically then you miss the whole point of applied biblical principle which is what brings us as Christians beyond the Jews.

We live in Caesars world and Authority it is unrealistic that we won't have pagan roots all around us but we can and do reject actively being a part of caesars world and the celebrations he requires of us.

If you are so "free" why do you need to justify what the anointed who you claim as Brothers rejected and didn't do? Namely birthdays and specifically one of Jesus's Birth. They had a remembrance of Jesus instituted By Jesus himself and it wasn't the date of his birth.

You claim inspiration for yourself Aguest yet justify worldly practises looking for loopholes in scripture. hmmm.

48

Jesus Trashes 1914 in ONE Sentence!

by Farkel in

it only takes one short sentence from the bible to thoroughly demolish the watchtower religion and the doctrine they claim is their most important one.

this sentence is so crystal clear that there is no way the wts can weasal out of it.

that's why they don't even try.. although their real most important doctrine is that the governing body speaks for god, their claimed most important doctrine begins with the notion that jesus took kingdom power and began reigning in 1914. if that doctrine can be shown to be false, the entire watchtower theology scam crumbles into the trash heap where it belongs.

debator

Hi cofty

Simple Grammer on the word "All" shows that it applies to the group indicated and not the Giver or doer.

"The manager gave his Forman ALL authority over everyone and ALL the factory" did this include the manager? No of course not.

"When the Lecturer started his lecture ALL the people in the room stopped talking and listened. Literally everyone in that room stopped talking."

Did the lecturer stopped talking? no

Jesus is Given "all" authority over the specific group and this doesn't include himself or his Father who gives this Authority.

Hi Aguest

You have your own doctrine and ideas on the bible. Revelation shows specific things happen at specific times and the Fulness of completion clearly doesn't happen until this point. Psalms you quote supports this.

Psalm 110:1-3

1 Jehovah says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

2 Jehovah will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.

The ruling doesn't start until after Satan goes down to earth (footstool) and until then Jesus is on the righthand of Jehovah his father.

Hebrews confirms this

Hebrews 10:12-13 (New International Version)

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,

Jesus waited from his sacrifice until his enemies became a footstool.

Revelation 12:9-10 (New International Version)

9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Three scriptures confirming the sequence of events what more do you want?