Faith in God is a Christian requirement even the bible doesn't deny that. It wouldn't need to be called faith otherwise. Where is the irony in stating a basic truth?
debator
JoinedPosts by debator
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100
These are good people
by Retrovirus inin my introductory post i told about the jws that have been visiting me at my sil's request.
at first i spoke with them for her sake, then found i liked them anyway.
what i didn't like was the literature, especially the stuff trying to disprove evolution.
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100
These are good people
by Retrovirus inin my introductory post i told about the jws that have been visiting me at my sil's request.
at first i spoke with them for her sake, then found i liked them anyway.
what i didn't like was the literature, especially the stuff trying to disprove evolution.
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debator
Hi retrovirus
I am no evolutionist I believe in God however interesting retroviruses are for me they confirm intelligent design not "sludge to man in a billion years".
If you are struggling with whether to believe in God or not that is a different issue than which god is the true one. It means coming on sites like this anti-witness one is fairly moot point.
Belief in God is a very personal choice. One I make every time I see a sunset or sunrise. I think evolutionists get so wrapped up in the minutia they cannot see the obvious in the beautiful harmony of the whole.
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100
These are good people
by Retrovirus inin my introductory post i told about the jws that have been visiting me at my sil's request.
at first i spoke with them for her sake, then found i liked them anyway.
what i didn't like was the literature, especially the stuff trying to disprove evolution.
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debator
Hi sweetbabycheezits
My point was a comparative one. Evolutionists cannot claim superiority to religion since their belief system clearly requires leaps of faith too and acceptance of continuous refinement.
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A FOUR LETTER WORD FOR DEBATOR
by wasblind indebator said: " coc is not the holy grail.
it is just an imperfection of men fallacy argument!
i'm surprised it still works on people.
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debator
Hi TD
I agree CoC's commercial success is irrelevant. It's the fact it is a profit-making tool for franz to live off anyway. The content is already tainted by the commercial objective of making money for the author to live off. You have to ask how much did he take this into account when writing it? Purity of motive already lost when he got his cheque! Personal conscience didn't stop him anticipating and accepting money for the book and he went on to write more for a bit of extra cash!
The next taint is the fact it has nothing to do with directing people to Jehovah but simply as you said unveiling inner workings of administration structure and imperfection of the men he encountered while being a witness.
You then use examples that again are simply oblique references prophecy even if you put them under other headings.
You then do reference the Blood issue but this is a difficult one as the Bible is hands down a total ban on life-blood. It is an explained law that notably didn't end with the dietary laws and was considered equivalent to the immorality and idolatry bans in God's eyes.
We then have the modern issue of Medicine creating grey areas leaving shepherds having to wade through the question "when is life blood so broken down it isn't life blood". They had to make the fractions a conscience matter for each individual Witness, they had no choice. This again is the second difficult area I highlighted as one that is by necessity in a flux condition. Refinement on environment and cultural developments demand Bible principle application in modern times.
Again I say refinement is a requirement of God's people until perfection is attained. You accept imperfection apparently while yet still condemning the manifestation of it's consequences in our religion?
God and the Bible make it very clear that getting things perfectly right is not posible for us but looking at the gnats that you have to dig up for your arguments in comparison to the camels you clearly ignore outside of the microscope you point at witnesses. Do you point that microscope at yourself?
The stuff you put on the table is obscure debated points and in easy target area's. No religion could stand up to your superfine opinion where you say you do not expect perfection but go into minutia detail over obscure issues that in no way compare to the camels Christendom swallow daily.
They can't even get god right but you would have me condemn witnesses over the massive issue of one word's translation regarding prophecy in Revelation. Where is your objectivity in all this?
And if we applied your microscope to one early Christian situation they would be condemned by it like the gentile issue, or the circumcision issue both of which needed to be dealt with by the then shepherds and some disagreed, some didn't know and they all had to come to an agreement which they then all had to accept whatever their viewpoint was before.
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JW's Came to the Door
by pr0ner inboy she didn't know what she was walking into.
it was a wealthy (she drove a lexus and was very well dressed) middle aged woman with a younger girl.
she used the typical line this time of year asking if i knew where the origins of christmas came from.
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debator
Isaac
Given the wholesale condemnation of pagan practises and idolatry in the bible, reading it into scripture to obtain a loophole is just plain silly.
Whenever Paul had dealings with Gentiles it was noted they gave up their former ways and religions, getting rid of idols and false worship he didn't give them a make-over instead. Paul got thrown out of cities because the Shopkeepers and business hated that newly converted Christians stopped buying the idols and ritual items from their former beliefs. Sound familiar!
How upset would the shopkeepers and businesses be if everyone stopped buying the Christmas paraphernalia?
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JW's Came to the Door
by pr0ner inboy she didn't know what she was walking into.
it was a wealthy (she drove a lexus and was very well dressed) middle aged woman with a younger girl.
she used the typical line this time of year asking if i knew where the origins of christmas came from.
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debator
Isaac
The principles Paul.introduces under Christian freedom like with food which is a provision from God but can be misused in idolatry it also deals with their change from being Jews and making allowances for those specific celebrations that Jews did as God's people. It is in no way a license to bring in pagan idolatrous celebrations which are universally condemned in the Bible. As usual the bible is just a Big loophole for you to twist to your own desires.
The Jews/Israelites tried to make=over pagan celebrations and idols to Jehovah and things didn't go so well for them. exodus 32:4-10, 2 Chron 33:15-17, Deut 12:29-32
Paul condemns the idolatry of the nations around him quite openly! There is no acceptance of pagan ways and practises, quite the contrary.
hi heaven
Again note the context he is talking about Jewish celebrations not pagan ones the allowance was specifically only for past celebrations that Jews did under Jehovah as God's people.
None of these scriptures mention accepting pagan practises or making them over to Jehovah as acceptable it is simply read into them by the wishful thinking of those that want to justify false worldly celebrations.
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JW's Came to the Door
by pr0ner inboy she didn't know what she was walking into.
it was a wealthy (she drove a lexus and was very well dressed) middle aged woman with a younger girl.
she used the typical line this time of year asking if i knew where the origins of christmas came from.
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debator
The apostles had no problem condemning false celebrations around them why should I. It is not a kindness to accept false celebrations that Jehovah himself hates.
Would you take a false idol that has all the sacrificial items to a pagan God still on it from a false religion then try and give it to Jehovah? you cannot white-wash idolatry then make it over to Jehovah or his son.
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JW's Came to the Door
by pr0ner inboy she didn't know what she was walking into.
it was a wealthy (she drove a lexus and was very well dressed) middle aged woman with a younger girl.
she used the typical line this time of year asking if i knew where the origins of christmas came from.
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debator
They used to use crosses too. Refinement takes time when you have 1700 years of embedded Christian/pagan mix to carve away. Christians faced constant refinement throughout the Greek scriptures did you think throwing off the iron tendrils of 1700 years of apostasy from trinitarians would be overnight?
You put false expectations on Witnesses.
The point is they were shown to be refineable from these false teachings and that includes the false pagan celebrations Christendom is so full of.
And being reformed from "Satanalia-mithras-winter solstice-commercialism-unreal Santa-Christ birth lie" Celebration was inevitable And happened quite quickly too considering how imbedded it had got.
The step from finding God's Biblical truths and principles and then applying them is a massive one as God's people and really showed the growing maturity of Jehovah's Witnesses
You want this false, commercial, sacred day that is so popular these days with all it's fakery now that you are no longer Witnesses?
It certainly reflects the step from truth to falseness very clearly!
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JW's Came to the Door
by pr0ner inboy she didn't know what she was walking into.
it was a wealthy (she drove a lexus and was very well dressed) middle aged woman with a younger girl.
she used the typical line this time of year asking if i knew where the origins of christmas came from.
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debator
She should have pointed out that Christmas is a pagan celebration now! That you hold no belief yet celebrate it proves this, among others that do the same.
Days of the week are also pagan if we got ridiculous about avoiding all worldly things we would have to completely separate ourselves for the world and The Bible makes allowance for this. But it isn't a license to partake of the worldly/ Pagan sacred days and celebrations they do for their beliefs.
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A FOUR LETTER WORD FOR DEBATOR
by wasblind indebator said: " coc is not the holy grail.
it is just an imperfection of men fallacy argument!
i'm surprised it still works on people.
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debator
HI designs
just variations of a theme Designs! each one trying to say 3 can = one and all unbiblical. The amount of choice on the table for a trinity style god just proves how false a teaching it is.