Posts by debator

107

which are the strong points of the WT?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

can someone say me ?.

debator

Hi isaac

Since Witnesses contend as per proverbs 8 that Jesus was Jehovah's "master worker" and so helped with creation this is not a good comparison.

Hi snowbird

I think the scripture supports the witness intepretation unless you are saying "lord" is the name of Jesus and not a title.

We confess Jesus is "lord" a title or his new God-given position and then scriptures later we have the bit that quotes joel is saying "those that call on the NAME of Jehovah" are saved. One is a title and one is a name these are clearly citing different words and not in reference to each other.

56

When is the Big GENERATIONS WT Study in congregations?

by daringhart13 in

does anyone know?

?.

debator

Hi titus

I am someone that likes to debate it is my name and my Modus Operandi. Beyond this I chose not to muddy the clear waters of debate. Which should be the topic not the person.

56

When is the Big GENERATIONS WT Study in congregations?

by daringhart13 in

does anyone know?

?.

debator

I'm sorry Isaac

I think you clearly failed to show this. You took scriptures out of their meaning and context. You can keep calling witnesses false prophets (that is your perogative and choice I will not argue that) but it doesn't make your accusations true, either biblically or in God's eyes. The burden of proof was on you to provide back up for your accusations but you failed.

56

When is the Big GENERATIONS WT Study in congregations?

by daringhart13 in

does anyone know?

?.

debator

Jesus said to use decernment on prophecy which indicates prophecy is a subjective science given to us to use. It will need constant reference to reading/looking for signs, collating bible information . prayerful requests of Jehovah for spirit guidance and reviewing bible chronology and readjustments as needed. It isn't meant to be perfect or exact. It is literally a work in progress! Biblical Prophecy fulfillment is clearly shown to only be 100% perfect in hindsight Jesus himself had to explain which prophecies he fulfilled to the Jews that had missed them completely. But we are commanded to do this and to be in agreement on it.

If this is the most SHOCKING thing you have against witnesses, that they actually try and interpret/decern bible Prophecy as per Jesus's command, it is not a very strong case in your favour.

107

which are the strong points of the WT?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

can someone say me ?.

debator

Hi Psacra and Isaac

Romans 10:13 is a direct quote from joel 2:32

Joel 2:32

32 And everyone who calls
on the name of Jehovah will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as Jehovah has said,
among the survivors
whom Jehovah calls.

The "lord" in romans 10:13 can have no choice but to be "Jehovah" because it is a direct scriptural quote.

Hi Outlaw

And your point? Jehovah is the English version of YHWH. I'm sure Jesus or any other English name in English language bibles are from Christian sources since it was Christian Scholars in the past that translated the bible and transliterated the names in it. Very often these were men who held religious positions.

107

which are the strong points of the WT?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

can someone say me ?.

debator

Hi freydo

I think you will find I did answer them, first saying "jesus" and then wanting you to clarify if you meant the original languages the bible was written and inspired in, which is Ancient hebrew, Aramaic and Greek?

Hi Isaac

Your point really isn't to do with pronouciation but usage which is a different Topic. I would like to clarify things first.

Do you think the hebrew scriptures are the inspired word of God as well as the Greek?

So when they wrote YHWH 7000 times This is the name for God?

Because your words seem to hint that the greek scriptures cancel this name out, which they don't. Jesus quoted the Hebrew texts many times as did various writers of the Greek scriptures, upholding them. It is only logical that we use God's name from the hebrew for when it is quoting from hebrew. Rather than the unispired "lord" a later false addition to the hebrew scriptures. Also "lord" is clearly used in the greek to indicate our father Jehovah but also his son which leads to a confusion on identity which is not logical. Since no original manuscripts from the greek exist the nearest being about 70+ years away, I agree with witnesses that it was likely that the greek scriptures like the hebrew replaced "YHWH" with "Lord" due to superstition on the part of later copyists.

Jesus words make no indication that God's name is to be changed to "Lord" quite the contrary.

Matthew 6:9 (New International Version)

9 "This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,

What name was Jesus refering too? YHWH

John 12:28
" Father, glorify Your name " Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."

John 17:26 (New American Standard Bible)

26 and (A) I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that (B) the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

The only name Jesus could be refering to is YHWH/Jehovah or are you saying he is talking about the title "lord" here?

The BIble itself tells us Jehovah/YHWH is Almighty God's name we are not adding something that isn't already in the bible and unless Your arguing that "Lord" is God's new name? I cannot see a point to your argument? Why would God give us his name YHWH/Jehovah 7000 times only to take it away? and not tell his son this either, who was clearly using it and making it known?

Jehovah's witnesses only add YHWH sparingly 237 times to the Greek (which technically isn't adding to the bible since YHWH is God's inspired name) I know that "Lord" replacing "Jehovah" is used a lot more in the Greek scriptures upto 1000 times. At least 50 of those are direct quotes from the hebrew scriptures and more are references to the hebrew but also to make sense when there is confusion between Jehovah "Lord" and Jesus "Lord"

While I respect your viewpoint Isaac. This YHWH Issue would only highlight peoples doubts in the Bible rather than support anyone's Christian beliefs.

107

which are the strong points of the WT?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

can someone say me ?.

debator

Hi freydo

I'm talking about the original written books by moses, john, mathew, Paul etc. We know these were written in at least 3 different languages Ancient hebrew, Aramaic, Greek. Would you consider "Iesous" the Greek version of Jesus a currupted version, which Paul used?

That site won't tell you but the earliest form of Jesus it has which is "Yahushuah" is also a transliteration version because that is from Hebrew but the Bible was written in the vowelless Ancient hebrew. As people know Ancient Hebrew didn't use vowels in it's written language but when ancient hebrews look at those words they still knew how to pronounce them (YHWH literally was Gods written name completely). They knew the sound that went with the consonants without writing them. But 500 years on they had forgotten these and so put pointers on the words indicating the vowels but these pointers were only best guess and not the original sounds. It is the pointer marks that they obscured for Jehovah and what people take names from but these are not original themselves but later additions.

107

which are the strong points of the WT?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

can someone say me ?.

debator

Hi freydo

You use the best example in Jesus. There isn't much resemblance between Yahushuah (pronouced more like Joshua) and then also under Godly inspiration in greek it became Iesous completely different sounding in pronouciation and not a single biblical quibble about it. That site you put up is putting an Unbiblical expectation on Jesus's name. If the Bible itself has no propblem using transliterated names from one language to another why should we?

107

which are the strong points of the WT?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

can someone say me ?.

debator

Hi rnicole76

Is "Jesus" (whose name is also important) okay as the English version of yahshua/iesous? (these are the hebrew and greek of Jesus's name in the Bible both were written as his name under inspiration they do not sound very similar in pronouciation). Are people really saying "Jesus "if they are using the English version of his name?

Revelation 14:1
[ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Since the bible makes no issue over pronouciation only emphasising that we use God's name in whatever language we speak. why are you quibbling over the English version of Jehovah/YHWH?

As Witnesses we accept we are using "Jehovah" as the established English version of the Hebrew YHWH like we use Jesus the established English version of Iesous in greek. We do not see this as making it any less his name it uses YHWH which is his name it is just spoken in a different language in my case English.

Every single name you read in the bible in your current language is a transliterated name that is not in it's original language or pronouciation.

What we are really doing here is trying to argue a special case for "Jehovah/YHWH" that we apply to no other name in the bible including Jesus's and without any Biblical principle for this. Since the bible is notably silent on pronouciation.

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

debator

The meaning of hyperbole usage in Jesus's words is totally lost on those so-called rational thinkers of that video.

Hyperbole (pronounced /ha?'p?rb?li/ , [ 1 ] from ancient Greek ?περβολ? 'exaggeration'), is a rhetorical device in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.