Posts by debator

67

Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?

by Witness 007 in

yeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!

can't finish the tower now can they!!

this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???

debator

Hi leolaia

You have a greater knowledge of the process of language it's complexity and distinctiveness. But none of this stops God being the creator of language. As far as I can see your refutation of the biblical account is on two simple grounds. The Bible timeframe does not go back in time enough and you simply cannot see a Divine intervention explanation for this.

How do you explain the variety of languages that appeared? why would more than one appear? You show yourself that when two groups meet one group tends to either take on the other's language or blending of the two together.

So if language evolved from one human group why would it diversify to more when the opposite is what happens when people are brought together?

Are you saying humans split up and in every single separate group they all evolved the ability to have language separate from each other, in their own groups?

You are right I have a vested interest in believing the Bible account but since Darwinism offers no explanation just a lot of unprovable theories aka "out of africa theory", "candlabra theory" and yes I do call the bible a basic explanation clearly not scientific enough for you but it does show why we have so many languages. Wherever humans exist language exists. Every stone age tribe ever encountered has a language equal to English, Latin, or Greek in terms of its expressive potential and grammatical complexity. Technologies may be complex or simple, but language is always complex.

In Judeo-Christian tradition, the original language was confused by divine intervention (which I agree with), as described in the story of the Tower of Babel in Genesis. There is a similar story from the Toltecs of pre-Columbian Mexico, who tell of the building of the great pyramid at Cholula, and the dispersal of the builders by an angry god. And similar stories are found in other parts of the world. This for me shows a racial memory of the event.

Bible plus the back up of racial memory for me is more accurate than scholar speculation. I appreciate that you have a differing viewpoint on this.

And if we look at language now aren't we looking at the evolving of the entire world into English speaking one language group? now we are connected by the internet and communication and interaction is becoming closely connected?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Billy

Do you except the limitations of 3 score years and ten with this new future of yours? and the limitation of men doing both good and bad around you that you cannot stop?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Jwoods

Do you care to do some actual research on these two topics? ask leolaia and ask isaac he already admits to a dual Jesus. Look up hypostatic union.

Christendom in teaching that Jesus is almighty Goid have to get past the fact God is immortal and cannot die when Jesus clearly does. They do this by splitting Jesus in half, one bit to die and a god bit that cannot die thus they deny that Jesus is fully resurrected according to them only part of him is. The god bit cannot be resurrected since it cannot die according to them.

Hi serenity

what do you think of Jesus's words here then?

Matthew 24:22
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

hi isaac

You are changing the topic to expelling/df-ing which Jesus doesn't address in that scripture. it is covered by these.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keepaway from them.

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

If you cannot see the point to Jesus not healing much were people not believing/having faith in him and his father Jehovah then I am surprised. We as Christians have a commitment to the flock first and Jesus showed this.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Isaac and booby

Why did Jesus heal less people in his hometown?

Matthew 13:57-58 (New International Version)

57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

According to you Jesus would be condemned for this?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi elderelite

I have simpathy for your burden as an elder it certainly isn't an easy job and as you can see on here. That people do not really recognise the full commitment and sacrifice of being an elder for the congregation they serve and for Jehovah. Since the bookstudy changed this has helped a little with the burden elders carry and in my local cong the burden is a very evenly spread out.

The Bible is also clear on elders duties knowing they have it hard.

1 Timothy 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

I know a few that step down for a while to recoup and come back stronger than ever. I hope you get through this hard time but don't let the people against witnesses on here spoil your love of Jehovah. The anointed also work hard and fully sacrifice their lifes even more than local elders it is the nature of the calling as Jesus himself recognised.

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

Yes this is a hyperbole but the principle and recognition of the sacrifice is there.

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

debator

http://thirdwitness.com/607_BCE/www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/

the following is a good debate on topix worth wading through to see alanf and thirdwitness come head to head over 607.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TBJHOKIJBBFLP99EO/p70

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Carla

I think you and I will have to agree to disagree since you seem to be unable to see any good in the witnesses. Thankfully countries and people that see them helping in disasters, teaching people to read and write and do sign language, as well as the bible morality stance that effects their followers, as well as seeing our faith and trust in Jehovah our God. These people respect our religious rights. You enjoy religious freedom now? this is because of witnesses you know. They pushed through most of our religious freedom laws that we have through the courts.

You bring up the resurrection of christ but it is only the witnesses that preach he was fully resurrected. The rest of Christendom say a god bit of Jesus didn't die and went to heaven and only the man bit got resurrected.

Jesus himself said the road was narrow and few were the ones finding it. Was Jesus lying?

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

20

Help with refining these questions for JW's

by S EIGHT in

i am slowly building a list of questions designed to help jw's "think" about the "truth".

please let me know if you think they can be refined or added to.. cheers,.

1. specifically, what was jesus looking for in 1918 when he looked upon the earth to identify his faithful and discrete slave?.

debator

Hi Isaac

I hope you realise your points are only indicative of your opinion you back none of them up with any proof.

You accuse me of being mind-controlled with no proof.

You dismiss Pauls membership of Rome the UN of his day as irrelevent when he was an Apostle.

You then dismiss the fact that you or other churches have no explanation for bible drawn prophecies. Only offering your own sidetracking red herring accusation of false prophecy when I have shown on another thread that this is impossible if they deny (and they do) direct inspiration from God and only try to decern from already written prophecy and chronology from the bible.

607 is a hotly debated topic that is fully discussed by thirdwitness showing witnesses have the right of it. despite what you and others say 607bc is a bible drawn date.

http://thirdwitness.com/607_BCE/www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/

Since the Bible itself is very hot on unity it is not surprising you do not go into detail on this cult accusation since you know I could show Jesus and early Christians are covered by it too if you did because it is so broad a term these days. This speaks more of people being anti-leadership than actually thinking witnesses are a cult.

John 17:23
I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Romans 15:5
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,

Ephesians 4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature,

1 Corinthians 1:10
[ Divisions in the Church ] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

unity in faith and teaching is a requirement of God's people. Christendom in support of it's multi-doctrines has to try and dismiss this and you use it as an accusation?

You then offer no examples of how witnesses have any wrong doctrines just a bare accusation.

All christian religions claim to be God's people/flock/channel on earth are you saying you and your church are not god's approved people as apposed to others? how can it be a fault with witnesses and not for you and your church?

20

Help with refining these questions for JW's

by S EIGHT in

i am slowly building a list of questions designed to help jw's "think" about the "truth".

please let me know if you think they can be refined or added to.. cheers,.

1. specifically, what was jesus looking for in 1918 when he looked upon the earth to identify his faithful and discrete slave?.

debator

Hi Isaac

I don't find them glaring at all they speak more of nit-picking. The DPI NGO one isn't even a fault when taken in line with Paul being a Roman citizen the UN of his day. Prophecy intepretation is just an easy target since it is subjective and other christian churches avoid it rather than address it at all. 607 is saying the Bible is wrong and going with secular sources as more correct. Calling them a cult is just a cover-all you can throw on any structured church or organisation, Early Christians are a cult by any list you find on here and Jesus a cult leader because it is such a broad generalised attack designed to appeal to emotions rather than reality. Imperfection of men is used an awful lot "Elder A is bad therefore all witnesses are bad!"

Main scriptural doctrine of witnesses is generally left alone since it's biblical truthfulness is easy to see.

That they cannot find big reasons to go against witnesses and have to dig out the nit-picking ones shows they need learned rhetoric to bolster their choice of no longer being a witness.