Posts by debator

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Paulapollas

I worded it badly but please don't put words in my mouth. What witnesses have done is the exact opposite to what you think I meant. We treat deaf people as equals and if you had bothered to look at my links You would have seen assemblies for the deaf community totally catered for them to enjoyed. We go into countries and become the people we are reaching too. I went to a recent Assembly it is honest to say every nation and colour, age, disability where there and it didn't matter, we were a family equal together.

I would respected you more if you had checked my links and No we are not rich people giving handouts to the poorer ones. We are the poor people made united and rich in our faith in Jehovah whatever our circumstances.

James 2:5
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poorin the eyes of the worldto be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

So compared to rich huge religious charities that make much of what they hand-out to the poor. We do what we do because we consider all people our equals and deserving to know God's life-saving message wherever they live and whatever their disability.

42

Faithful slave has been around since the 1st Century?? So why DIDN'T Charles Russell join them?

by Witness 007 in

the watchtower claims there has been a "faithful slave" since jesus time till now so.....why did russell go independent and start his own group of bible students?

why did he claim the title for himself alone?.

debator

Hi Isaac

If the Angels couldn't pick out the wheat from weeds how could imperfect men in the gentile times? We can guess at a few because of their actions but that is all.

42

Faithful slave has been around since the 1st Century?? So why DIDN'T Charles Russell join them?

by Witness 007 in

the watchtower claims there has been a "faithful slave" since jesus time till now so.....why did russell go independent and start his own group of bible students?

why did he claim the title for himself alone?.

debator

A servant is a person who serves.

Charles taze russell did something that People rarely do. Criticism is easy but searching for real truth and sticking by it. And when you find it investing all your life and money into that truth?

The Dvd said something that struck me deeply. "let scripture explain scripture" simple but profound when dealing with doctrines on the Bible. I am a witness because he and a few others had the strength of character to look at God's inspired word not just for answers but also for explanations of the answers.

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Paulapollos

There is no point in them teaching a sign language that is not an already established one. I should have made this clearer they can only build on what is already being used by the majority of the deaf community. But if you want proof of it working.

http://www.salisburypost.com/Lifestyle/070310-Jehovah_s-Witnesses-qcd

http://www.pe.com/localnews/corona/stories/PE_News_Local_D_deaf10.22bb969.html

29

Now versus 7 Years Ago.....

by AK - Jeff in

we have been out of the organization since 1-1-2004 - at least that is the way we mark it to remember.

we began to read ray's books in late fall/early winter of 2003 - a thousand pages later and a few weeks - viola - we were out to never return.. i was contemplating just how significantly i have personally changed in that period of time - not the stages, though there have been many stages.

but the raw contrast of my opinions, moral stance, and view of the world is amazing.

debator

And yet akjeff

Whether you intended it or not. Your expressions are very generalised.

"Freedom to really grow as a human being " "Live, Laugh, Love, as if each moment could be our Last"

I personally find a greater freedom in searching and finding God specifically rather than just living in the moments that slip into memories so easily.

You have made a choice Ak-jeff that I respect but also I challenge since you put it up here for us to see. It does feel like an appeal to emotion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

"Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument. Thus, the validity of the premises that establish such an argument does not prove to be verifiable. [ 1 ]"
"Conclusively, the appeal to emotion fallacy presents a perspective intended to be superior to reason"

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html
An Appeal to Emotion is a fallacy with the following structure:
Favorable emotions are associated with X.
Therefore, X is true.

67

Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?

by Witness 007 in

yeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!

can't finish the tower now can they!!

this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???

debator

Hi bohm

Is that the new explanation for us not to actually see evolution now? it sounds very convenient. So evolution happened before any time that we could check it against? that just makes it a mythology. It basically pushes language into an accepted assumption. Very convenient.

67

Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?

by Witness 007 in

yeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!

can't finish the tower now can they!!

this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???

debator

Hi leolaia

I disgree a "just so" story is simply a recognition of the reality and can be checked against the reality. Many mythologies have "just so" stories that under simple everyday scrutiny are patently untrue. but Bible shows complex language was given to man straight away. God could talk to adam and Adam could understand language concepts like future, past that are part of language complexity. Then Babel says the Languages are confused by the appearance of different unique languages and this led to a natural separation of humanity.

You own words show this to be a reality we live with when groups separate languages separate. I recognise the constant changing nature of language (it's inate fluidity) but while all languages are different in nature they are inherantly similar in functional complexity. I was trying to keep it simple because I do not have your knowledge on the subject. This inherant complexity of language resists an darwinistic framework that always suggests that simplicity is the first building blocks that lead to later and greater complexity. This doesn't happen with language. Gramatical function and complexity appear with the earliest languages we know of and they in their environment are as complex as any language used now. This fits with it being a unique specific divine ability we are given rather a seeably evolved attribute.

There are no missing language "links" it appeared a fully formed in the earliest known forms as it is now in the later ones.

On the table are two or three offers for language origin.

1/ Bible - claims a fully complex given ability from it's start that also explains how completely unrelated languages linguistically to each other with no obvious connections appeared at the same time by divine intervention. (the examples you give would still have shown that connection with the original language they diverged from) When you look at any language it is a history book in itself showing what it roots were linguistically.

2/ Darwinisms - always claims simplicity gives way to greater complexity. Survival of the fittest demands the need to evolve more complex ways to deal with situations. Then as something evolves clear links connecting these ancestral roots can be seen. Darwinists are constantly looking for connections and similarities that can show the original formations. You get nice pictures of skeletal heads apparently growing in complexity and brain size etc you have People using simple tools and then more complex tools, hairy ape-like men giving way to smooth-skined humanoids. Language complexity resists this type of calculation. Language was as complex thousands of years ago as it is now with all the same abilities to describe unseen concepts and have gramatical structure etc.

Not only this, you cannot see the links between the disparate early language groups. You say they could just emerge but the examples you showed (Pitkern and Norfuk) like I said above would have shown their original language root despite how much they diversified. Language is a history book of how it diverges in itself you can see the links to previous languages thats how I know English is of indo-european growth. My point is your cannot see the the connection as you go back further in time. It is just as if many disparate unconnect languages appeared similtaneously at the same time.

You say theories can be checked well for me so far the winning one is the bible simple explanation it was a God-given complex ability.

3/ Many scientist point to some extraordinary event that caused a change either extra-terrestrial or otherwise as yet unknown that triggered everything. this simply lends itself to the creation of modern mythology to explain the unexplainable.

67

Bible says God confused peoples languages at Babel....is this childish nonsense?

by Witness 007 in

yeah so in genesis we read how people began building a tower which would reach up to jehovah in heaven....must have been damn tall....rather then just stop them, god changes everyones language.....one guys speakin french.....another speakin russian and so on!

can't finish the tower now can they!!

this is not very scientific......does anyone believe this is how languages got started???

debator

Hi leolaia

You have a greater knowledge of the process of language it's complexity and distinctiveness. But none of this stops God being the creator of language. As far as I can see your refutation of the biblical account is on two simple grounds. The Bible timeframe does not go back in time enough and you simply cannot see a Divine intervention explanation for this.

How do you explain the variety of languages that appeared? why would more than one appear? You show yourself that when two groups meet one group tends to either take on the other's language or blending of the two together.

So if language evolved from one human group why would it diversify to more when the opposite is what happens when people are brought together?

Are you saying humans split up and in every single separate group they all evolved the ability to have language separate from each other, in their own groups?

You are right I have a vested interest in believing the Bible account but since Darwinism offers no explanation just a lot of unprovable theories aka "out of africa theory", "candlabra theory" and yes I do call the bible a basic explanation clearly not scientific enough for you but it does show why we have so many languages. Wherever humans exist language exists. Every stone age tribe ever encountered has a language equal to English, Latin, or Greek in terms of its expressive potential and grammatical complexity. Technologies may be complex or simple, but language is always complex.

In Judeo-Christian tradition, the original language was confused by divine intervention (which I agree with), as described in the story of the Tower of Babel in Genesis. There is a similar story from the Toltecs of pre-Columbian Mexico, who tell of the building of the great pyramid at Cholula, and the dispersal of the builders by an angry god. And similar stories are found in other parts of the world. This for me shows a racial memory of the event.

Bible plus the back up of racial memory for me is more accurate than scholar speculation. I appreciate that you have a differing viewpoint on this.

And if we look at language now aren't we looking at the evolving of the entire world into English speaking one language group? now we are connected by the internet and communication and interaction is becoming closely connected?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Billy

Do you except the limitations of 3 score years and ten with this new future of yours? and the limitation of men doing both good and bad around you that you cannot stop?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

debator

Hi Jwoods

Do you care to do some actual research on these two topics? ask leolaia and ask isaac he already admits to a dual Jesus. Look up hypostatic union.

Christendom in teaching that Jesus is almighty Goid have to get past the fact God is immortal and cannot die when Jesus clearly does. They do this by splitting Jesus in half, one bit to die and a god bit that cannot die thus they deny that Jesus is fully resurrected according to them only part of him is. The god bit cannot be resurrected since it cannot die according to them.

Hi serenity

what do you think of Jesus's words here then?

Matthew 24:22
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.