Posts by debator

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

debator

Essan

You should have read his post it shows concisely that Russell did not "predict" anything.

Why is prophecy such an issue for you?

Prophecy understanding/decernment is one of the few areas where we are told to subjectively look for signs and fulfillment in the world around us, subject to Bible chronology and prophecies concerning this.

It's not meant to be exact science from the beginning hense why it was originally obscured in symbolic hard to understand language biblically until the "time of the End". We are meant to keep searching and looking for fulfillment around us and so it is a constantly refining as our knowledge and understanding grow.

Why would anyone judge any christian faith on their recognition of Bible prophecy fulfillment? which is only 100% in hindsight? Jesus himself had to explain which of the prophecies he fulfilled regarding the messiah after the fact.

According to you the Apostles as the chosen of Jesus should have immediately known and got them right without the need to be told by Jesus?

Luke 24:27 (New International Version)

27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

You are putting a false unbiblically expectation on prophecy understanding that is clearly part of an agenda to create doubt and false expectation of what God's people will be acheiving in these times.

97

Beware of the Strawman argument!

by Farkel in

jw
friends

years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.

it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.

it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.

debator

Hi inbetween

Did you notice you own introduction of "God's channel" strawman into the argument you set down?

You were playing out a scenario of witnesses teaching something other than what is written in the Bible in your example but you do not actually bring any specific example into the equation? Basically an empty accusation with no prove other than your opinion.

At this point people usually bring in a strawman like, bible prophecy fulfilment (which you check again the world as to it's fulfillment not the bible) or "God's channel" or "accusations of being a cult" or some hearsay example of some person among other common place examples I see on here. None of which are teachings you actually check against the Bible basically as my original point says... These are just strawmen arguments people have learned from various sites.

97

Beware of the Strawman argument!

by Farkel in

jw
friends

years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.

it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.

it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.

debator

Be aware.

You may well be hung by your own pertard on this one. People on here have specific topics they use against witnesses as strawmen and try to draw every discussion to reflect them.

Me --- If you test what the Witnesses teach against the bible they are shown to be more accurate than any other Christian faith atm.

Anti-witness --- No they are not, they are brainwashed!.

Me --- Ehh? I'm not talking about brainwashing. I'm talking about checking what witnesses specifically teach against the Bible itself.

Anti-witness -- witnesses cannot be accurate because they are a cult and all cults are innacurate!

Me -- Huh! what has that got to do with testing against what the Bible teaches?

Anti-witness --- Your just brainwashed and they get dates wrong all the time.

Me -- Again I'm not talking about brainwashing or chronologically drawn prophecy which we are told biblically to check fulfillment as it happens in world around us. Can we please get back to the topic at hand please about checking what the witnesses teach against the bible?

Anti-witness --- Rutherford and Russell were just crazy men who you follow!

Me --- I'm sorry but what does that have to do with what witnesses preach?

Anti-witness - Also my Mum's uncle's brother saw all the elder's sons get away with having sex while he just got df'd for watching an 18 Movie.

Me --- Sigh!!! Do you actually know any Bible doctrines that Jehovah's witnesses preach, to talk about?

Anyi-witness -- You just follow a printing press company instead of the Bible.

Me --- Look! all I am saying is check what the witnesses actually Teach against the Bible have you any thoughts on this?

Anti-witnesses --- ehhh!! Did I mention you were brainwashed? thats number 2 on my list of what I was told to say to witnesses?

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

debator

Hi Essan

All you did was put on a pair on negative blinkers and rewrite your own negative slant on the words. It is a good example of how biased an ex-Jw mindset is. Showing they can no longer read without looking through this veil of prejudice on anything about Jehovah's witnesses.

Hi Quietleaving

So we just ignore that Deut 18 makes it clear the false prophet has to be claiming to say inspired Words directly from God "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by Jehovah ?"and stick to your wrong understanding of it?

To others

Aside from redefining what constitutes being a false prophet outside of the bible (which makes it clear that they must claim direct inspiration from God himself which witnesses never have) there was little content to the ex-Jw points. It was very instructive to see Consfearacy deconstruct all your negative bias on here.

28

is the good news preached by the wts the same of the apostle Paul?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

help me: .

the good news of the kingdom of god,.. a kingdom that come to govern on the earth, this wts teach.... but the apostles and christians preached this?

gal 1:8,9.

debator

Hi Cantleave

Jesus made the apointments before he left setting up those that qualified from among the flock to be the shepherds. Paul gives us instruction on how to appoint men as overseers and elders, leadership is said to be a gift of how the congregation functions along with administrators etc. These people will show this gift by becoming shepherds directing the congregation correctly. Their fruitage points them out.

Whats is the fruitage of trinity shepherds? unbiblical doctrines, false worship of a triune God, idolatry, laxity on god's moral laws etc If these so-called shepherds were doing their job they would be striping these centuries old false doctrines and avoiding cultural pressures to conform to relaxing morality.

The fruitage of witness shepherds is the purity of the bible teaching we have. They simply have done the job correctly according to bible directives and been blessed with help for it. Letting the bible explain itself rather than put doctrines onto it. They are condemned for doing their job when people prefer the absent distance of other church leaders that enjoy saying but not doing.

Room 215

Your emotional appeal to Godwins law aside. Paul under spirit inspiration was strict himself, instructing which man should be expelled. In his letters Paul deals with lots of everyday topic that happen in the flocks guiding them on apearance, functionality, association with the world , issue specific to individual congregations etc. You should be condemning him also by this measure you are measuring out.

Hi isaac

I am confident witnesses have the correct Gospel since ours is the one that passes the bible text of actually being in the bible and not just read into it.

J

28

is the good news preached by the wts the same of the apostle Paul?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

help me: .

the good news of the kingdom of god,.. a kingdom that come to govern on the earth, this wts teach.... but the apostles and christians preached this?

gal 1:8,9.

debator

Hi 215

Your deliberately emotionally manipulative words aside, I'm glad we can agree on the basics and look around and see what other Christian religions have not realised. Jesus set up the Flock/group exclusive if you don't like it blame him. You don't like older men?

1 Peter 5:5
Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (New International Version)

11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." [a]

Expelling is a Bible punishment you need to take up with God.

"Primitive Christianity" functioned as a unified group that had older men and apostles that set up congregations and elders for each congregation. Writing what are now books of the bible as instruction manuals for the flock to follow as a unified group even appointing overseers to make decisions for the whole among ourselves (Paul's letters in particular). We are told to have agreement within ourselves and avoid division.

This is all Biblical writings you are disgreeing with.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

debator

Hi quietlyleaving

What question? you made a point on deut 18 by proof texting verses 20-22 ignoring the context of verse 18 onwards to prove your point. You then said using the Bible is the same as claiming to be inspired which is saying every Jew and every early Christian was claiming to be able to do inspired words from God himself. Therefore how do we know the Bible is inspired from all the other Jewish writings from those times?

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

debator

Read what? massively old publications from our very early days when we were still searching for basic bible truths? That debators on here have to go so far back in time to our early days for their ammunition says a lot but publications from those early days still make the clear point that we do not consider ourselves inspired.

28

is the good news preached by the wts the same of the apostle Paul?

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

help me: .

the good news of the kingdom of god,.. a kingdom that come to govern on the earth, this wts teach.... but the apostles and christians preached this?

gal 1:8,9.

debator

Hi Yknot

While Arians had similar teachings to witnesses they were also effected by culture of greek philosophy then and allowing it to shape exegesis but admittedly history would have been a lot different if they hadn't been overturned and all their works destroyed. We now have a history very polluted by trinitarian agenda that had no problem killing men and destroying documents that didn't agree with their triad God belief.

Jews believed in One God and father but was it enough for them? Muslims believe in One God but was it enough for them. When I looked at where are currently, very few Arian type religions compare as well to witnesses who stand out as ones that have gone past this basic bible truth and matured to greater bible truths because not only do they believe in One Jehovah God but also present themselves as his people fully using his name.

Isaiah 52:6
Therefore my people will know my name; therefore in that day they will know that it is I who foretold it. Yes, it is I."

54

How to deal with "Whoe other than JW are preching today?"

by Simon Morley in

my bil (active dub) has begun to ask me why we are not "active" anymore.

after a few careful (non-dfing) comments and observations he asks "well who other than jw's are preaching the good news in fullfillment of matt 24:14?

i responded with the comment that billions of christ's followers worldwide, down through history for over 19 centuries have been selfless in preaching globally.

debator

Hi quill

Exactly, what Witnesses do is preach the correct message of salvation from the Bible God's own word.