... is this "no holding hands in prayers" law really true???
i have not heard of this before?
when did this happen?
Hi White dove
There are also examples where is prayer is being said for a whole group to Jehovah and written down in the Bible as well but that doesn't preclude them all meditating on it personally as they pray to Jehovah.
Philippians 4:20
To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
"Amen" is used as an agreement confirmation.
The point is simply however many are involved it is between them and Jehovah rather than each other.
new testament scholar james dunn has written a new book called did the first christians worship jesus?
the new testament evidence.
his answer to the question is a qualified no.. http://www.amazon.com/did-first-christians-worship-jesus/dp/0664231969/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8&qid=1284146996&sr=1-1.
Slim
Your point is very blurring. "a god" as apposed to "The one true God"? One of the main themes of the bible is Jehovah's right of sovereignty as the one true God as apposed to other gods.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
The difference between "from" "for" and "through" may seem irrelevent to you but the Bible writers also consider it important.
Seeing Jesus as the "way" to God is a massive difference than seeing him as God himself. False believed ideology means Christendom thinks a father and son are the same being, they no longer use Jehovah's name, they think an image can be the original, where 3 can equal 1 etc. For me I suppose it is the choice between living with defined Bible truths or in an Oxymoron's paradise
As humans we like to live by clearly defined edges of understanding. When you start saying "it doesn't matter!" when do you stop?
new testament scholar james dunn has written a new book called did the first christians worship jesus?
the new testament evidence.
his answer to the question is a qualified no.. http://www.amazon.com/did-first-christians-worship-jesus/dp/0664231969/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8&qid=1284146996&sr=1-1.
Hi slim
we do not pretend honour and worship are the same word to prove our point!
The differences slim are great and the similaritie are only shallow stuff and not enough to get past worshiping different God's.
... is this "no holding hands in prayers" law really true???
i have not heard of this before?
when did this happen?
Hi Bez
public prayers happened biblically especially when followers gathered together including times with Jesus and his apostles (no group hugging mentioned).
Luke 1:10
And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
Also in God's house where they worshiped.
Luke 19:46
"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be a house of prayer' ; but you have made it 'a den of robbers.' "
I did come across this interesting one concerning Jesus.
Luke 9:18
Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, "Who do the crowds say I am?"
Jesus prayed privately to his father yet the disciples where with him. Everything I checked showed the deepest heartfelt prayers are when someone is alone between them and Jehovah even if others are around them.
Prayer is definitely a personal thing between you and Jehovah.
............and really believe that it is right that god will destroy them soon?.
a baby is a beutiful, innocent vulnerable little human being.
how can they really believe that it is right and just that god destroys millions of babies and children?.
A final thought on this. The Bible makes it clear that when humans expect God to fall short due to their own negative expectations of him, they are the ones that end up with egg on their faces when Jehovah proves them completely wrong.
... is this "no holding hands in prayers" law really true???
i have not heard of this before?
when did this happen?
This is about prayers to God?
Jesus himself was very clear about the personal nature of prayer betwen a person and God.
Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Luke 5:16
But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.
Guess you should be telling Jesus prayer is a group-hug thing now?
I did check through a lot of greek scripture references to prayer and none of them talk about hugging etc. "Hands on" is only used in a healing scenario with prayer.
So why make a spectacle out of prayer? Keep it simple, keep it to Jehovah.
............and really believe that it is right that god will destroy them soon?.
a baby is a beutiful, innocent vulnerable little human being.
how can they really believe that it is right and just that god destroys millions of babies and children?.
Hi Bez
I try not to go into the realms of speculation. The bible says all who died will be resurrected and it is upto Jehovah to set the criteria for life and when it starts, which biblically indicates fetus's, psalms etc. Also People have no idea what will happen to babies at Armageddon and even if there will be any. The Bible only talks of ungodly people dying, Jesus spoke of one man being taken and another left. Armageddon sounds like a scarpel finely cutting off rotten dying flesh and givng a chance for what is healthy to live, heal and grow.
Jesus is King and the image of his Father Jehovah and he likes children.
Mark 10:16
And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.
I trust Jehovah and his son Jesus that however harsh Armageddon is, not one single innocent life will be destroyed and many will get a life that was denied them previously. And I think you'll find all witnesses feel this way.
Has a seven week old fetus aborted at the whim of it's parents got a right to the life they denied it? How will he do this? I have no idea but he has power overall life. If we humans made in his image can in one ward be keeping alive a child only 20 weeks old born to early and yet in another ward be aborting a baby of the same age? how can that be right? I trust Jehovah is certainly not like that.
I guess it boils down to how you view God! God could leave us alone to our own self-destruction. The Majority no longer even believe in him and so rejected him. They choose to believe that they are born to a finite life so can they really quibble if this is all they get?
In this area humans simply cannot do what Jehovah can. No humans government has found a way to protect humans from each other.
As I said earlier the Jews expected Jesus to destroy the Romans and become king. Well Jesus did become king and he did set up his father's kingdom but not one single life was lost in that happening except his own. He managed to do this in a way that completely confounded human expectations at the time.
Now people say how can God do this without killing innocents? Well through his son he did it before confounding a blood-thirsty people. You have to wonder why it is Jesus and not one of the many human rulers that ruled for Jehovah that has been made king? Jesus record has always been love, peace and sacrifice (although no shyness of condemning wrongdoers either) and yet he says he does nothing of his own initative only what his Father taught him.
I have no problem trusting Jehovah or his son Jesus in this. If Jehovah was as blood-thirsty as you seem to want to make him, why would he have sent us his son?
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
............and really believe that it is right that god will destroy them soon?.
a baby is a beutiful, innocent vulnerable little human being.
how can they really believe that it is right and just that god destroys millions of babies and children?.
Hi stAnn
I do not agree with your opinion of Jehovah. As far as I can see he is trying to allow us to understand why our way simply doesn't work and we have been given enough time to understand this. But at some point he has to stop us getting so brutal and selfish we destroy everything and nothing can be saved.
Have you thought that what really condemns us now, is not what we do out of ignorance but what things we do these days truly knowing they are wrong and yet still do them.
Why send Jesus his son with a message of peace and love if Jehovah's grand plan is just to destroy? If Jesus had destroyed the Romans as the Jews wanted him too he would have been lauded as messiah by pharasees and saducees alike! why wait until a time when we humans do far worse than the romans but yet know how wrong it is?
in my search for the answer to the question "what really happens when we die?
" i came across this beauty, omg never heard of this before!
"even more astounding is, the great design of the creator is to have a trinity.
If you check the proclaimers book it will shows pictures of witnesses celebrating birthdays and using crosses at the same time. Our originators for about 1700 years had no choice but to be trinitarian on pain of death of imprisonment. It took time to throw off that kind of ingrained teaching but thankfully Bible truth shone through. Plus it's complete lack of mention of any trinity andalso finding 1 john 5:7 additions were a completely false from marginal notes helped.
years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.
it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.
it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.
I think it is telling that you acquaint this site with a place of worship.
To be honest call me what you like, Madjw, renniaa, alice, debator, some guy. It's only on this site that people seem to think there is only one multiple-personality person talking in favour of witnesses. Maybe it's a way of hardening yourselves and dehumanising posters who support witnesses. whatever!
If this site is a haven/church/kingdom hall for people of your opinion and you cannot tolerate any view that differs to yours (seeing them as disruptive) you may want to talk to Simon and get him to make it less public and more in line with your ideal? Ex-Jw sites can be made closed shop for people of that opinion only? It is done all the time. I know of about 4.
