debator

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Posts by debator

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  37

  Awake! says we can pray in Jesus' name!!!

  by Leolaia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to this, jesus is not just the mediator of the 144,000 -- he's the mediator of mankind!!

  and apparently "dear jesus" prayers are okay!

  the watch tower says i can say, "dear jesus, you are my mediator as you are for all mankind..." "the bible clearly says that jesus christ is mankind's redeemer, so he is mankind's mediator.

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  debator

  John 16:23
  In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
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  36

  Another 144,000 Question

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.

  second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.

  they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?

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  debator

  The rest of "creation" await the end of 1000 years for the full blessings. Bear in mind that The bible calls the 144,000 the first-fruits which indicates more to come. whether it be heavenly or earthly

  If being on a paradise earth was so Bad why did angels come to live on the earth before the flood when it wasn't even a paradise?
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  75

  Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

  it basically says this:.

  "it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

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  debator

  Hi Bortherdan

  We ask Jehovah in Jesus's name not Jesus directly.

  John 16:23
  In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

  This is Jesus's own explanation unless you are calling him a liar?
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  75

  Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

  it basically says this:.

  "it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

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  debator

  Hi brotherdan

  But I think they are preaching the right doctrine. You are right there preaching is irrelevent if you haven't got the doctrine right

  Trinity needed lie scriptures for 1 john 5:7 to be put in the bible in the 15th century. Why would God use a doctrine that needs lies and false scriptures? Constantly changing and murky to fit different denominations.

  IMO the witnesses are a million miles more accurate than the blinkered christendom still mired in 1700 year old greco/roman doctrine put on the Bible.

  You put an awful lot of emphasis on charity works but you forget that Jesus talked about preaching as feeding etc you miss the whole point of his coming to us which isn't just to feed poor in a literal way but in a spiritual way which is our main command.

  Physical food will only prolong life in this world it is the spiritual food of teaching God's word that saves.

  John 6:27
  Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

  Which is a greater good? handing a loaf to a poor person for a meal patting him on the head in your superiority of riches or teaching him to be a better person by God's standards so he can help himself and others as your equal and fellow Christian literally saving lifes by preachign god's kingdom?

  I have great respect for literal charities that we have in this world but there are plenty of them but only one that feeds people the accurate life-saving biblical spiritual food that they need so badly and they are the Jehovah's witnesses.

  Do you not consider spirituality important anymore?
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  45

  If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hmmm.

  either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

  it never was the "truth" in the first place..

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  debator

  Fallacy Argument.

  The time we were chosen was when Jesus was among us.

  This one sentence shows the responsibility toChristians from that point in history.

  Luke 12:43
  It will be good for that servant whom the master findsdoing so when he returns.

  They are doing what the master wants when he finds them..

  Why are we given the bible?

  We will be judge by who actually use it accurately rather than their own unbiblical doctrine.

  Hebrews 4:12
  For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

  Why do these arguments always try and make a case for God having a magical wand and going abracadabra on someone rather than showing that we are given the bible to use and the People using it will be noticiable in the time of the end?

  Witnesses use all the Bible it makes us use God's name Jehovah, it makes us preach about his kingdom and actual son Jesus, it makes our shepherds work for us as per bible instruction, it makes us gather together in congregations, it makes us recognise what Jehovah likes and dislikes, it makes us reject the celebrations and culture of the world around us. It makes us pray to Jehovah asking him rather than anyone else. It gives us the answers we need.

  John 16:23
  In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

  Matthew 18:19
  "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

  I think this argument is simply abdicating our responsibility to Jehovah as his people and to his word.
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  45

  If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hmmm.

  either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

  it never was the "truth" in the first place..

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  debator

  Hi sab

  Are you now talking about trinitarianism?

  That is a predicted delusion.
• 
  75

  Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

  it basically says this:.

  "it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

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  debator

  Hi Brotherdan

  You keep trying to say I'm saying salvation by works but that is not the point. It is that true faith inspires works. When looking at Abraham, moses, David etc they all made mistakes throughout their lifes but they had faith and it showed in their works despite their imperfection.

  How do I know Jehovah's witnesses are Jehovah's people I recognise them by the works that their faith inspires.

  hebrews 11:36Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned [f] ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

  39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

  Maybe the point is to subtle for you to understand?
• 
  75

  Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is one of the top thought stopping phrases here.. it invalidates any argument presented against the organization.

  it basically says this:.

  "it doesn't matter who did what in the org, it doesn't matter how bad things get, we are the only ones doing what jesus did, therefore all errors and corruption are disregarded as we await the end.".

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  debator

  Using imperfection of man as an argument is just silly. It has always about what God's people do despite making mistakes and how much we have faith in Jehovah rather than pointing the finger at our imperfection.

  One of the reasons I am a Jehovah's witness is there ability to recognise and be refined from mistakes that they accept will happen.

  Daniel 11:35
  Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

  That ability to recognise and rectify mistakes means they do listen to the bible and do the commands we are given like preaching work, using God's name, reocgnising simple bible truths etc.

  Zechariah 13:9
  This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'Jehovah is our God.' "

  The real question is why doesn't faith in God inspire christendom to do the preaching work first and formost?
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  45

  If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hmmm.

  either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

  it never was the "truth" in the first place..

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  2. 
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  debator

  Unbilbical argument.

  Being Chosen by Jehovah never made imperfect men perfect or without mistakes. Which they continued to do despite being chosen.

  Jehovah has always allowed humans a certain autonomy with regards to freewill and occasionally we go to far and make mistakes. The bible is there to straighten out these mistakes that will happen.

  2 Timothy 3:16
  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

  If God could just reach and zap us into getting everything right we would not need the bible.
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  202

  "Birthdays rob the glory of God"

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  humans are unique.

  each one is unique in his/her own regard.

  like your thumbprint, your life is unlike any life in existence.. .

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  debator

  Hi caliber

  If it was just personal celebrations with no wider extensive implications, why do Birthdays and Jesus's (pretend) birthday Make billions for those in trade and by extension Government taxes every year?

  Hi 3dogs

  your point was of-topic.

  Hi bek

  You illustrate why People embrace these Pagan feastdays on leaving Witnesses they no longer accept Biblical guidance and embrace all the world has to offer.