Posts by djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@djeggnog wrote:

I spoke in opposition to your view of the [date] when Nisan 14 occurs in 2017. I don't recall saying anything to you here about "worshipping according to Bible truth"; you made this up.

Let me say again, I don't recall saying anything to you here about "worshipping according to Bible truth."

@David_Jay

First of all, speaking "in opposition" is presenting an argument. If you had no desire to do this, you would have never posted anything "in opposition to your view of the dats [sic] when Nisan 14 occurs." Arguing is "expressing opposing views in an exchange" or "to speak in opposition of another's view."

This you were clearly doing to begin with. The reason you replied now is because you had no answer to give me. You had immediate answers for others, but you could not answer mine right away. So you took the time to research it.

I have been given 168 hours each week to carry out the various tasks I've taken on, which includes broadcasting and production work and study (I'm currently in school); I also work part time and I also need to sleep. In fact, all of such "tasks" consume much of the time I'm allotted each week. Reading the posts in this and other threads is a low-priority task and, as an a academic, I have no need to conduct any research before responding to any of your posts, but it does take additional time from more important tasks to engage in social media exchanges (like this one).

I never argued with you, nor posited any argument; our opinions differ on the date that corresponds with Nisan 14 on the Hebrew calendar, and since I fully accept that your opinion on this matter differs from mine, your allegation rings rather hollow, but ok.

@David_Jay

Finding you could not argue against the facts I presented, in order to save face you finally came back and now claim that you just don't have an "interest" in the subject any longer.

And I was not saying that you personally made a claim about "worshipping according to Bible truth." That is the teaching of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was speaking against their claim. If the Memorial was really taking place on Nisan 14, the Full Moon would not have risen a day earlier.

In an earlier post, I fully comprehended this as being your opinion; I just don't agree with your opinion.

@David_Jay

And if you do not agree that the Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach according to Bible truth, then you are telling us that you don't believe what your religion teaches.

I don't recall saying anything to you here about "worshipping according to Bible truth," and your continued repetition of this false allegation will not change this fact.

@David_Jay

But on the other hand, if you do agree that the witnesses teach according to Bible truth, then you have just demonstrated that you cannot explain the point I countered with.

How do you figure?

@David_Jay

The solution is simple. Either the Witnesses are wrong and that is why you couldn't give an answer, or the Witnesses are right but you are bad at explaining what they really teach.

Either way, no one should pay further attention to you. If the religion is false, who wants to listen to you--a member of a false religion? If the religion is true, who wants to listen to you--a bad example and bad teacher of life saving truths.

ok; perhaps you're right. 😊

@David_Jay

We Jews are still celebrating the Passover for a few more days yet. Part of this celebration is to declare liberty to those enslaved even today. People can be enslaved by false religions and even bad teachers of truth. Whatever happens to be the case with you, what kind of Jew would I be and what kind of liberty could I declare if I did not speak up against the tyranny of falsehood?

I don't know, not do I care to give you a grade.

@David_Jay

Remember how Elijah challenged the false prophets of Baal? He proved their worship was false since they could not get Baal to ignite their sacrifice. If your worship of Jehovah were true, there would be no question you could not answer. You would not merely say you have no interest. You would have the answer immediately, as fire from Jehovah ignited Elijah's offering. Is not the "sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips" greater than the offerings of the Jews? (Hebrews 13:15)

If by "fruit of lips" you refer to prayer, why?

@David_Jay

Is not the spirit of God with you? Why are your lips not ignited with the flame of the spirit, the power from Jehovah that should light your offering of "the fruit of our lips"? Why no answer after all this time?

"After all this time"? To what time do you refer? Do you imagine I owed you an earlier response or any response at all? You really should not feel I have such a debt to you; I don't.

@David_Jay

That is because you are like the prophets of Baal. You do not worship Jehovah. You claim to and make an idol of his name, but you fail to offer the 'sacrifice of praise...the fruit of lips.' Jehovah cannot fail, cannot offer imprecise dates for the Memorial, nor be powerless to give one of his true worshippers the ability to light their "[sacrifice] of praise."

I find this statement of yours to be incoherent.

@David_Jay

Therefore you are like the prophets of Baal, a worshiper not of the God of Abraham but of a false idol that enslaves people to the imprecise, imperfect direction of fallible men who run the organization that offered the Memorial on the wrong day.

Passover is a call to end all types of slavery. So if you wish to offer your words that enslave people to your false religion, in the spirit of Passover I declare you another false teacher like Jannes and Jambres. And I declare all who have left the Jehovah's Witnesses freed from the tyranny of falsehood, from slavery to lies.

Be gone, you false representative of the God of Abraham. You are but a worshiper of a dungy idol you call "Jehovah" but is anything but!

I enjoyed our exchange here and find your comments in this thread to have been "exhausting" (for lack of a better word), but this worshipper of Jehovah is not going anywhere.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@David_Jay

To all onlookers here it is clear you are not producing any empirical evidence to contradict the fact that according to the moon's phases the middle of Nisan has passed.

No, I've no interest in arguing with you over anything; you have every

@David_Jay

This is the most important yearly event for Jehovah's Witnesses. With all due respect, it speaks against the claim of worshipping according to Bible truth when you claim that tonight marks the 14th of Nissan and it is clearly visible that the Full Moon waxed last night. If you cannot make your arguments coincide with what can truly be seen by all humans worldwide when looking up in the sky, your claims are false.

I spoke in opposition to your view of the dats when Nisan 14 occurs in 2017. I don't recall saying anything to you here about "worshipping according to Bible truth"; you made this up. I trust that you were in invigorated by your religious activities with respect to Passover and I enjoyed the brief exchange I had with you here.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@djeggnog wrote:

You are evidently of the mistaken view that Jehovah's Witnesses do not and are required to not speak to disfellowshipped persons. You are free to believe what you wish, but many spiritually-mature persons (e.g., elders and their wives) have conversations with disfellowshipped persons. I suppose it's possible that many of the things you believe to be true are not true at all.

@Anders Andersen wrote:

Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course." Pay Attention to Yourselves and all the Flock p.103

Conclusion: anyone having 'spiritual association' - which includes discussions on Biblical and religious topics - with a DFed person, set himself up to be DFed too.

Wt literature even claims saying 'hello' to a DFed person is an act of disobedience to God.

I'm also quite sure there has been at least one reference in JW literature that not even elders are to talk to DFed person unless the body of elders sent them on a mission, for example to try and reactivate the DFed person.

You would appear to be under the mistaken impression that you know the guidelines we publish, which those of us with spiritual qualifications follow, better then we ourselves do; you come off to me as someone that is spiritually immature, someone that for whatever reason thinks these guidelines in our literature is akin to the Law of Moses because your faith based on your spiritual comprehension of Christian principles bespeaks a weak conscience just as the man who is stumbled upon observing me eating food that had previously been offered in sacrifice to an idol. (1 Cor. 8:7-11)

What I just said here defiles your conscience because you think you know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe when it would be more accurate to state that what you know is what you believe to be true about what we believe. Let me disabuse you of the notion that you know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe because you only think you know.

There are people that have been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses for 20, 30, 40 years that have themselves been baptized, but are still drinking milk and talk just like you about "the rules" that Jehovah's Witnesses are obliged to follow. However, not all Jehovah's Witnesses drink milk; some of us eat meat now for "solid food belongs to mature people." (Heb. 5:14)

Our publications are written for both the mature and the immature, but it doesn't stumble me nor do I cower in fear when I see someone that has been disfellowshipped at a supermarket, for example, that hasn't been attending meetings. I want to find out how he or she is doing and whether he or she is attending meetings elsewhere and considering coming back. Some do attend some of the meetings elsewhere due to embarrassment they would feel around others at their local Kingdom Hall and some have stopped attending altogether.

But if the conscience of someone weak in their faith is at that supermarket with me (like you, for example), I'm going to ditch you (if I can) in order to have a quick conversation with the disfellowshipped person because I don't wish to stumble you when my desire is to encourage someone in any way I can with a view to building that person's faith, which may be just as weak as yours.

Hopefully, you will think about this post of mine before citing "the milk" you read in our publications to someone spiritually mature as if you understood what you read in them to apply equally to all Jehovah's Witnesses.

@Anders Andersen

And here you are saying something like 'Elders do it so I can disobey Gods guidance too!'

Actually, I would never say such a thing, ever.

@Anders Andersen

Geez you don't even know the rules of your own cult.

None of Jehovah's Witnesses are members of any cult. I think you define "cult" differently than do I. We don't follow a human leader, nor does our worship devolve into some ritual; we didn't branch off from any church as is often the case in many cults today. We don't have rules, per se; what we have is Bible trained consciences that are trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@Ucantnome

As I wasn't invited this year the first time in 20 plus years, Ok I haven't attended in 20 + [years, but] I think they should have invited me.

You evidently feel this way, but you really don't need a formal invitation to attend the Memorial of Christ's Death as is the case for every public meeting hosted by Jehovah's Witnesses anywhere in the world. If you were formerly one of Jehovah's Witnesses or were a regular attendee at any of our meetings or assemblies, you know all of this; in fact, everything about our public meetings today is exactly as you might remember them, including media access (without the need for any written invitation (via tract) or a verbal invite), except what is true is that the length of some meetings is a bit shorter now than you may remember their length from some 20+ years ago.

Maybe not you personally, but all attendees learn the meaning of many things in the Bible at every meeting that hardly any of Christendom's churches teach, so whether you were able to attend the Memorial for 2017 or not, if an invitation is important to you, then, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I hereby extend to both you and to anyone you choose to accompany you an indefinite invitation for your attendance at any meeting (or assembly) of Jehovah's Witnesses until the Lord comes.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

In the past I have only visited the memorial three times, but tonight I will not go, despite having received a lot of calls and texts from certain people in the cong. I will probably just be reading a book instead of going.

As is your right, an adult can and does choose whether or not they will accompany someone to a concert, a doctor's visit, to a school play, to a commencement exercise, to a basketball, hockey, baseball or football game, to a night club, to a political campaign event, to a movie or the Grammys. Clearly, not every adult is going to appreciate an invitation from someone to attend the Memorial of Christ's death either and would be content with reading a book.

@Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

Djeggnog, can you explain to me who is your mediator?

Yes, I can, but I have no interest in explaining to you conceptually how the New Covenant works, especially in a thread about the Memorial. I suspect you ask the question because you really don't understand the significance of Heb. 9:15 (or 1 Tim. 2:5), but my view of any Bible-related topic is consistent with publications that you could easily consult using jw.org, if interested.

FWIW I don't come to this website to teach Bible doctrines; we have Kingdom Halls for that. I come here to read and sometimes post responses to threads that interest me (like this one).

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@Iown Mylife

The members of the Jehovah's Witness cult are forbidden to scatter their pearls before swine on ex-JW forums.

This is true. (Matt. 7:6)

@Iown Mylife

Do not "your sort" regard ex-JWs as bad association? And yet, here you are, amongst the apostates, just a bit hypocritical. I can't tell for sure but sounds like you're trying to write satire, because it can't possibly be serious.

What exactly do you think to be hypocritical as to my posting a response to your post? I use posts like yours to speak to the doubts that others using this board might also have. If you have left the faith, there is nothing I will be able to say that will move you to repentance. (Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-31)

You are evidently of the mistaken view that Jehovah's Witnesses do not and are required to not speak to disfellowshipped persons. You are free to believe what you wish, but many spiritually-mature persons (e.g., elders and their wives) have conversations with disfellowshipped persons. I suppose it's possible that many of the things you believe to be true are not true at all.

@Iown Mylife

There's one thing that is very serious, and that is the inexcusable mishandling by WT of huge numbers of child sexual abuse cases, and the protection, whether intentional or not, of huge numbers of pedophiles within the WT organization. The lying, denying, covering up and insistence on obedience to the men who perpetuate this farcical scam of a religion.

What can any human being do about pedophilia, whether among Jehovah's Witnesses or among other religious organizations? You may have a wrong view of the world and of the people that are drawn by their preaching work to Jehovah's Witnesses. I am patiently awaiting the promised new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness will dwell, and I have faith that this new heavens and new earth will soon become a reality although it doesn't yet exist at present.

@Iown Mylife

The shame of being associated with such a terrible organization was too much for my conscience to bear.

I don't know what was so 'shameful' about your former association with Jehovah's Witnesses (and I'm not asking), but I would assume since you left the faith that your life has vastly improved and your conscience has become clear. If this should not be the case, then I would assume that you've figured out how to live the rest of your life free of this world's anxieties.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@djeggnog

I believe I have the right to believe my congressperson is dishonest, that one grocery chain is more expensive than another, that my property taxes are too high, that it is unconstitutional for President Trump to have launched 59 Tomahawk [missiles] at a sovereign nation that had not attacked us here in the US without congressional approval. You have the same right as I do to believe the exact opposite as to all of these things I just mentioned.

Can the right to choose what to believe and not believe, what to reject and what to accept as true, and to take one's own beliefs seriously or not be aptly described as a "superiority complex"? I don't think so.

@nonjwspouse

The superiority, personally judgmental part just flew right past you didn't it?

FWIW, hardly anything 'flies past me; no superiority complex is involved in the decisions that you make or that I make.

@nonjwspouse

[One] huge difference is that you are free to believe those things and others believe others, and you will not be punished by being banned from your family and friends, made to feel as if you will be annihilated if you think differently than the imperfect men in charge ( that a Governing Body member G Jackson admitted on a sworn statement that they "would be presumptuous to say they are Gods only channel of communication on earth".)

"[One] huge difference? How did you get from what I said is my right (and yours) to accept what things you believe to be true or to reject those things you believe to be false, and crime and punishment? You may be among those that suggest Jehovah's Witnesses are compelled or forced to have no contact whatsoever with disfellowshipped family members, but this is own's own choice to make and no one else's. Why is it ok for elders to have conversations with such disfellowshipped individuals? Why is it ok for a spouse or a grandparent or a child or any other relative to have conversations with such disfellowshipped individuals? If there should be no reason to interact socially with a relative or a schoolmate or a carpool buddy, etc., other than as incidental to family relations or some school activity or the workplace, then why do it?

If someone has been disfellowshipped because they unrepentantly stole from someone or unrepentantly molested a child or unrepentantly engaged in sexual activity with someone to whom he or she is not married or unrepentantly abused drugs or alcohol or unrepentantly <you fill in the blank>, why would you AS A MATURE CHRISTIAN MAN OR WOMAN want or why would you AS A MATURE CHRISTIAN MAN OR WOMAN allow members of your own family to socialize with such people?

You will not suffer annihilation for what you do, but if you reject the advice given by elders about allowing your own children to unnecessarily socialize with disfellowshipped individuals, and to consent to becoming unevenly yoked or to associate with an unrepentant disfellowshipped person that speaks disparagingly against other Christians or hang out with an unbeliever that doesn't know God or that associates with an otherwise bad influence, you would do well to consider that you or yours may become a victim and fall away. (1 Cor. 10:12; 2 Cor. 6:14; 1 Tim. 4:1; 3 Jo. 1:10)

@nonjwspouse

You are not free to think, or reason, or pursue a personal relationship Jesus or God when you are a baptized Witness.

What makes you say this? At John 15:5, Jesus said, "Apart from me you can do nothing at all." What do you think a personal relationship with not "Jesus or God," but with both God and Jesus requires of you? What do you know as to your having a personal relationship God and Jesus that you came to know based on your own study of God's word? What do you know about your having a personal relationship God and Jesus that you came to know based on your association with Jehovah's Witnesses? What do you understand Jesus' words at John 15:5 to mean?

@nonjwspouse

You must agree with all that is said and written by the GB, as well as take all advice, about anything that is decided upon that seems to need "correcting" from someones point of view, from anyone with authority over you ( the hierarchy of the the KH). Failure to heed the direction can place you in danger of being cut off from your family and friends, placed in an emotional hell.

If this is what you believe, I will accept that this is what you were persuaded to believe, but I realize that there are many spiritually immature active, inactive and disfellowshipped people.

@nonjwspouse

Loving correction? Absurd. Hurtful, cruel blackmail? Absolutely.

I never said any of the things that you've said here; all of your gripes aside, I joined this thread to make a comment to the OP about the Memorial of Jesus' death scheduled to convene on Tuesday, April 11, 2017. You clearly speak from a closed mindset, but I thought I would respond to what you wrote for the benefit of those that still possess an open mind. I don't believe there to be anything I would able to say to you that you would be able to accept as being the truth.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@Darkknight757

[W]hy is it that you talk as a collective and express yourself like you're better than everyone else for celebrating [your black mass]?

Jehovah's Witnesses is a collective organization; we "all speak in agreement, and … [are] fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (1 Cor. 1:10) One cannot be "submissive to the good news about the Christ" unless willing to be submissive "to those who are taking the lead" among us. (2 Cor. 9:13; Heb. 13:17) One simply cannot be one of Jehovah's Witnesses while holding onto and teaching unprofitable doctrines in opposition to the good news.

I thnk the best part of not being a JW anymore is you lose that superiority complex and Borg collective mentally.

You were never one of Jehovah's Witnesses, were you? if you were of our sort, you would certainly not be saying that you are no longer "being a JW anymore." Even if disfelowshipped, you would have sought and be seeking reinstatement.

Being one of Jehovah's Witnesses might be likened to being the owner of a 200-unit condominum complex called The Palm; if you should not be an owner one of one of these condos—even if you had at one time held a deed of trust on one of them and have in the past been entitled to use and regularly used the amenties that this complex provides—you cannot rightly claim to be an owner of any of the condos at The Palm.

To follow on in this arcane analogy, whatever the CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions and Regulations) by which condo owners are governed at The Palm, if you are not numbered among the owners of these 200 units, you cannot be compelled to adhere to any of the provisions contained in the CC&Rs. Even disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses, who are, in effect, homeowners whose condo unit may at present be in jeopardy of loss, do not lose their property interest unless they die.

What "superiortiy complex"? To what "Borg collective mentality" do you refer?

As I said earlier, we "all speak in agreement,” and "are of the same mind and have the same love, being joined together in soul, holding the one thought in mind." (1 Cor. 1:10; Php. 2:2) This is, in fact, the "collective mentality" of all Jehovah's Witnesses. "

Jehovah's Witnesses believe their spiritual comprehension to be superior to all "reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God" (2 Cor. 10:5), even if you and others may not agree with this conclusion, but if you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, what is this to you? I believe I have the right to believe my congressperson is dishonest, that one grocery chain is more expensive than another, that my property taxes are too high, that it is unconstitutional for President Trump to have launched 59 Tomahawk missles at a sovereign nation that had not attacked us here in the US without congressional approval. You have the same right as I do to believe the exact opposite as to all of these things I just mentioned.

Can the right to choose what to believe and not believe, what to reject and what to accept as true, and to take one's own beliefs seriously or not be aptly described as a "superiority complex"? I don't think so.

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..

djeggnog

@David_Jay

Now if you will excuse me, it's time for me to celebrate Passover

That's fine; people get to observe any day they wish for any reason, and no one can judge another for which day or days he or she chooses to give special consideration, whether that day be a wedding anniversary, a Sabbath, a birthday, a graduation ceremony or one of the many special days one may hold dear according to the traditions they follow.

I was merely making the point that just as you and others have decided to follow a religious tradition at this time of the year that is deemed important to observe, others like Jehovah's Witnesses have similarly decided to observe their own religious tradition in accord with they believe to be important. You may not agree with another's rationale for doing what things they've decided to do on those days they regard as special to them, but it as much their right to observe whatever they choose to observe as it is your right to make such choices.

Let each of us stay in his or her own lane; I cannot judge you as wicked for your decision to set aside certain days as worthy of special consideration. I merely wanted to make the point that you are free to opine of what you think about "Nisan 16" or when the "2nd day of Passover" occurs, I, too, have an opinion on these matters and I am not in error just because my opinion differs from yours. I've provided some of the scriptural reasons upon which my opinion is based while you've provided no scriptural reasons, which suggests that your reasons are based on human tradition, which is fine.

On this board can be found an abundance of opinions on many diverse topics and you and I made contributions to the many opinions found on it. Because you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, this would explain why you have different opinions about the Memorial of Christ's Death than I do since Jehovah's Witnesses do not observe the Passover, which is often conflated with the Memorial, although this is weird considering the fact that (1) Jehovah's Witnesses do not observe the Passover nor do we observe any of the sabbaths that you may observe, and (2) whereas Moses is associated with the Passover and the various sabbath observances under the Law, Jesus is associated with the Memorial, which is observed by Jehovah's Witnesses on the same day that the Jews observed the Passover, namely, Nisan 14.

To Jehovah's Witnesses, the significance of the Memorial differs dramatically from the significance of the Passover.

Enjoy your day!

@djeggnog

103

What will you be doing on the evening of the 11th ?

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy and myself will be eating out, sure in the knowledge we will not have jw's using the same restaurant.. i may have a cigar along with my brandy at the meal's end to celebrate my (our) freedom..