Posts by corpusdei

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

If you have kids, a one bedroom won't do.

Why not? Is leg room somehow more important than living within your means? A dear friend of mine (who also had a less than "fortunate" background) went through a time when her family of 5 lived in a small, 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom trailer. They were there until they were able to work through their financial difficulties and grow responsibly. I'm sure it would have been a huge relief to move into a bigger place (I remember the place, it was cramped and it got chilly in the winter), but they made do. They didn't move until they knew they could afford it, and that they wouldn't put themselves in a place where they would risk not being able to provide the necessities to the kids. Until that point, they didn't sacrifice necessities for comfort. Comfort and luxuries went first, her own at the front of the line, in order to make sure her kids were fed and cared for, and she did it as long as she had to. She's a long way past that now, thankfully, but even since then, that sense of frugality and prudence allows her to spend more time with her kids now than most parents could ever hope for. I've always been amazingly proud of her for that.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

journey-on>> Thanks. I know my position and opinion sounds cold and cruel and elitest, but it's not that I wish ill on people, anyone who's in a bad place. If you're constantly depending on someone else to get you out of a bad spot, you're always going to wonder what will happen when they're not there. Being able to know that you can do it yourself is independance, freedom, and that's a strength that makes life so much easier. Always knowing that it doesn't matter if you screw up, someone else will always be there to bail you out, seems to me like an addiction only slightly less crippling than one that comes through a needle.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

Well, since you asked:

- Did you have alcoholic parents? Yes, father, didn't clean up till I was 19 and well out of the house. Well, "cleaned up" for him counts as less than a six pack.
- Parents addicted to crack? Not sure what else Dad was hooked on besides the bottle. Mother was addicted to the Witnesses. Still is, or was at the point I quit having anything to do with her. I might have better feelings for her if she did hit the crack pipe. A crack pipe seems easier to quit than religion. I know it took less out of me to quit speed then it did to quit God.
- Did you have to learn to steal food at 7 because there was nothing to eat at home? From the store on the way home from school. I preferred Snickers, cause they were easier to pocket and actually seemed more filling than 3 Muskateers. And off the other kids lunch trays when I didn't have money for school lunch. I got whipped with the handle off a set of window blinds until I bled when I dared steal food off my fathers plate because I was hungry. Even up to the point where I got a job waiting tables I was occasionally hungy enough to take leftovers that other people left. Cutting the bitten half off a burger because the customer only ate half and I couldn't buy groceries until next week isn't something I care to remember, but I did it.
- Did you ever go a week without any food at all? I streched a pack of ramen noodles over three days. Also see above.
- or heat? I have. It was either the propane bill or the electric bill. My blankets stunk because the laundromat was more expensive than I could afford, but they were something at least.
- Did you ever wake up at 5 years old alone in the house and terrified? No, but I was left at middle school for ~6 hours on several occasions because my mother forgot about me or went to meetings. That wasn't fun.
- Did you ever go without clean clothes for a few weeks or tie bags over your feet to keep them dry inside your shoes? Shoes from Goodwill, too big for my feet because I'd grow into them, held together with duct tape I took from the woodshop class when the soles came unglued.
- Did you have to leave school in the 6th grade to help out at home? Pulled from school every tuedsay to help with Field Service until the school put a stop to it. Gods work.
- Did you have to dodge bullets and gangs just to get to school and back every day? Can't say as I did that one. I did get beaten regularly because I was a Witness, though (I've still got a chipped tooth and a couple of scars from some of those fights). Rednecks don't take kindly to folks who don't say the pledge of allegiance.- As a child, did you have to put your drunk mother to bed and watch over her because you were fearful of her dying on you and leaving you alone? No, but I did have to wrestle my father out from under the table after putting out the fire on the stove. Apparently, his drunk, passed out ass thought making hashbrowns at 4 AM would be a good idea. Prolly somewhere after the 18th can of Milwaukee's Best.
- Did you get locked in a closet or tied to the bed so your mother could go out to work? She didn't have a job. unless you count Field Service. Which was too important for my soul to be kept home for.
- Did you ever get beat by your abusive father until your were put in the hospital? No, they couldn't afford the hospital, or doctors, and after all, I earned every ounce of blood that my fathers belt buckle drew, because I sassed back at him. Don't need a hospital to tell him how to raise his kid.
- How about getting your teeth knocked out by an angry spouse? No, but a girlfriend did put a sword through my bedroom door, does that count? I started trying to make some better relationship choices after that. I did have to worry about an angry husband with a lot of guns for awhile though. I'm still not fond of going over into that part of the state.
- Did you ever get stalked or threatened with death if you tried to leave an abuser? Stalked, yes. Threatened with death? Not that I recall (though that sword was pretty damn big). I was threatened with false paternity, accusations about various STD's and being framed for a suicide, though. Again, better relationship choices after that one.
- Were you raped? Physically? No. But that's not the only kind of abuse out there.

The "better foot" that I started out with was a 115 year old house that you could see through the cracks in the walls in places. If I wanted to be warm, then my brother and I sure as hell better get started getting the firewood together and god help us if we didn't put the cover back on the firewood pile. Up until I was 8 or 9 my parents didn't file income taxes because there wasn't enough taxable income.

Anything else you'd like to know about me?

The environment that you're in influences your choices, no doubt. I made plenty of bad choices along the way and paid for them until I didn't think I had anything left. Then I got up and made the choice not to do that again. And if I had spent all my time asking "Who's going to help me out of this?" I'd still be there, I'm certain of that. I'm out because I knew that I was the only person I could ever trust or depend on to change my life. Not my parents, not some politician on his high horse, not my neighbor down the street, certainly not God. When I failed, I was the only one that owned the fault for that, no one else. When I succeed, I owned that too, and I've got piss-poor sympathy for those folks too weak and whining to take responsibility for their own lives. There are plenty of people out there who've done more than me with less to start with for me to think any different.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

I guess the core of my point is that, while I (and most people, I expect) would consider it morally good to help someone in need, I don't have the right to take that moral choice and make it someone elses legal obligation just because I consider it morally just, any more than I have the right to impose any other of my moral choices on someone else. I consider it morally good to donate blood, but that doesn't mean it would be right to make that a legal requirement for everyone else.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

What if we had no government to support at all? No government to expect anything from? Would we really help each other out? Who would survive, who would make it? Who wouldn't make it?

Don't get me wrong, I believe that government and law does have a place - to protect the lives, liberty and property of its citizens. But that's all. It may be a moral high point to help my fellowman, but making their loss my responsibility is to impact my right to my life, my liberty and my property.

I'm ready, willing and happy to help someone else. That does not mean that I should be forced to do so.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

I like I said before I paid my taxes too. I and my husband paid into the system. You're not only the only taxpayer here.

I'm not disputing that fact. But Social Security has been a bad investment, a ponzi scheme, for as long as I can remember. The fact that so many people trusted in that, and only that, to secure their retirement is bad judgement, putting faith in an investment that you can't control, opt out of, or even withdraw without meeting arbitrary conditions set by the very people who've stolen the money. The fact that we're forced by the federal government to pay into it is a crime on their part, but more so a culpability on ours for allowing it to continue.

If I were to put all my money into one investment and that investment sinks, it doesn't give me the right to walk up to you, put a gun to your head, and expect you to give me even a fraction of the money I lost. It makes me in a bad place because I trusted in that investment. The fact that politicians are essentially saying "Welp, we spent all your money, but that's OK, if you vote for us instead of the other guy we'll give you the money that we took from someone else. Promise. Cross our hearts" doesn't make it any different, it just perpetuates the crime.

EDIT: Or a different example. If I were to be held at gunpoint and my life savings taken from me, I wouldn't have the right to expect you to pay my way simply because the same thief took some of your money, too.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

It not theft if you worked for many years before needing to access certain benefits. My husband and I are not thieves.

I'm not going to make myself very popular for saying it, but every cent of taxpayer money that goes into federal social aid programs was taken, under the threat of force, from someone who earned it at the cost their time, their effort, and their lives to be given to someone who did not. Those who paid into social security for the whole of their working lives were no less stolen from when the federal government can't foot the bill. It makes me sick to look at the amount of money I'm losing to Social Security, but as far as I'm concerned, that money is lost. I can't, and won't, stake my future on the Federal thief promising that he'll pay me back.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

In your opinion has that always been the case? I.e., were the Russian serfs of the 14th century poor because of their "stupid decisions"?

Does this comment apply to the USA only, or to every place on earth?

I'm thinking primarily of the USA, as that's where I am, although I would extend it to any country that upholds an individuals right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And again, as I said, I recognise that there are exceptions to my line of thinking - I have and will continue to participate in helping people who are going through extreme and unavoidable circumstances.

My core belief, through my personal experience, is that the individual is responsible for the outcome of their lives. I have a right to my life, my liberty, the property that I own, and the pursuit of happiness in my life. I do not have a right to happiness itself, only the pursuit of it. That's important. I don't have a right to a car, or internet, or a TV, or even a house. I have a right to pursue those things, but I have no right to automatically have them, and I have absolutely no right to make another person hand over their property so that I can advance that pursuit, or because I didn't do whatever it took to make and keep myself stable even when faced with unexpected circumstances. That's theft, any way you cut it, and it makes no difference to me if it's done in person at gunpoint or with the force of the federal governmant.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

During the Recession of 1991-1993 we took in 2 families to help out and cutout all the extras like movies, meals were very basic. I dug ditches, any kind on work I could get, we survived.

That's exactly what it takes to get through hard times. Doing whatever is necessary to make ends meet, even if it means cutting out every fringe luxury. There was a similar question I saw on another board, with dozens of folks posting that they couldn't pay their bills. I bit my tongue instead of asking how many were posting because they were at the local library, taking a break from self-studying to get a technical certification, and how many were saying they couldn't pay bills while posting from their own computer/laptop/ipad over a broadband connection, possibly even bundled with the cable TV package.

So many people that I know personally who make the same complaint won't give up the internet, the TV, beer and cigarettes, and would pass want ads in the classifieds because they didn't want to do something like that. I spent the first part of college working two jobs and living on veggie stirfry with ramen noodles. Instead of drinking and going to parties, I was at the library studying to get technical certifications so I could get a better job. I didn't have a cell phone until my girlfriend (now wife) insisted, and even then I only got a prepaid one to use in emergencies. Every spare cent I could squeeze out of my budget went into savings. When bad stuff happened or a bill was more than I expected, I had that emergency fund stashed away. If I couldn't pay for something, I did without or found a different way.

Choices like that are why I'm not poor, not because I'm more fortunate than the next guy.

130

You have lost your job and your house, your down to your last $1,000. How will you make out at the end of the month?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

wrong.

you have lost your job and your house, you are down to your last $1,000.. how would you make out at the end of the month.. accept the challenge, .

corpusdei

Poor people are poor simply cus they cant manage their money, right?

Can't say I agree with that. I would state that, while there are always exceptions, poor people are poor because they make stupid decisions. Not only in how they manage their money, but in how they manage their lives - education, family planning, investments, behavior, it all goes into the quality of their lives and whether they are or are not successful financially.