this is a sugestion i have to all members of this board ,members from all over the world, to let the victorian government in australia know that the world is concerned about protecting the children of victoria ,and theirby setting a precedent for the rest of the world, who are interested in the outcome of the criminal charges against the religion of jehovah`s witnesses in refusing to abide by the legislation to get "working with children checks"when required to do so.correct me if i`m wrong but i think if all of us sent letters to the newspapers here in australia ,the different members of parliment here,we would demonstate that the victorian judicial system here is under scrutiny to do the right thing in the eyes of the world.. we all complain that the wtb&ts/jehovahs witnesses is a cult religion that sucks,destroying family relationships,here is a chance to do something about it.
whether you agree with steven unthank or not,here is an opportunity to stick up for the children of jehovah`s witnesses and every other child that a witness calls on in their door to door ministry.. what do you think ?.
smiddy.
Hi Roski, Thank you for your suggestion. Are you referring to Kate Langbroek who shares a 6-9 AM breakfast radio show with Dave Hughesy (see http://www.novafm.com.au/nova100/show_hughesy-and-kate_2)? I'm having difficult in thinking how to present ideas to help Steve Unthank's cause to Kate Langbroek when Kate plays records and talks imbetween with Dave Hughesy or will speak for a speaking fee of $5,000 to $!0,000.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
before everyone gets the wrong idea about creating an "empowering jws" forum, this forum would be for serious campaigners to exchange ideas about helping jws by either influencing the wtbts to change or planting seeds of doubt in jws, and would not be for promoting the wtbts nor its policies.. since jwn threads have gotten so numerous and effectively using jwn's search engine is a mystery to me, i believe that creating a forum for posting ideas to awaken jws would benefit both jws and exjws, who want to do more than debate religion and relate how they were abused by the wtbts/jws, and who want to help awaken loved ones.
i feel that the forum should be named "empowering jws" to paraphrase steven hassan's book "releasing the bonds: empowering people to think for themselves" and because i do not want to alienate jws with doubts be calling it something derogatory that may raise a jw's persecution phobias.. also, jwn might appear more welcoming to jws, if there was a recommendation that posters refrain from labeling jws jdubs, borg, witlesses, etc.
i know that many members of this forum were hurt by the policies of the wtbts and that some jws were jerks to them, but that does not mean that all jws are jerks.. peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
Black Sheep - Do you mean a forum where JWs can come and find out that they have wasted decades of their lives and trashed their relationships with their families and generally behaved like complete arses to the rest of mankind without hurting them ????
@ Black Sheep (and others). I mean a forum (or sub-forum or folder beneath the Jehovah's Witnesses forum of JWN - not a seperate website) where JWN members can exchange ideas about empowering JWs to think for themselves by either planting seeds of doubts in JWs, writing to news organizations to expose the dangers of cults like the Watchtower, writing to politicians to revise laws that unintentionaly support dangerous cults, or suggesting to JWs with doubts not to donate to the Watchtower or any building projects, etc. Naming the forum "Empowering JWs" is to help get around JWs cult indoctrinated defenses not to read apostate material.
If JWs with doubts helped plant seeds of doubts in other JWs, maybe the Watchtower leadership would make changes which would help JWs to think for themselves. Even if the Watchtower leadership becomes even more critical of former JWs that may still help JWs to start thinking for themselves.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
while researching tax exempt status of organizations in the usa for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the wtbts, i found this letter from charles w. boustany, jr, oversight subcommittee - chairman to douglas h. shulman, commissioner - internal revenue service, which was dated october 6, 2011. it just made me wonder if aarp's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the wtbts' business practise of extracting donations from jws through building and selling khs be questioned?.
i'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask congressman and senators to investigate the wtbts in specific and cults in general.. what do you think?.
peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
james_woods - Just for the record - does anybody know what happened with this inquiry into the AARP? The letter was written October 6, 2011...
Hi james_woods, Good question. I did an internet search and found the following links to news articles in December 2011:
And the following link to a blog in January 2012: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/nonprofit/2012/01/congressional-focus-on-aarps-tax-exempt-status-continues.html
Hopefully in the next day or two I will search the Federal Register for October 20-25, 2011 for some sub-committee action.
I feel that the short answer to your question is the inquiy into AARP is still open, and that the time could be right to ask Congress to review requirements for tax exempt organizations. I feel that a major change to requirements for tax exempt organizations might influence dangerous cults to either change or reduce their available funds. At the very least it may be an opportunity to shine a light on practices of dangerous cults.
What changes would you like to see in requirements for tax exempt organizations?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
this is a sugestion i have to all members of this board ,members from all over the world, to let the victorian government in australia know that the world is concerned about protecting the children of victoria ,and theirby setting a precedent for the rest of the world, who are interested in the outcome of the criminal charges against the religion of jehovah`s witnesses in refusing to abide by the legislation to get "working with children checks"when required to do so.correct me if i`m wrong but i think if all of us sent letters to the newspapers here in australia ,the different members of parliment here,we would demonstate that the victorian judicial system here is under scrutiny to do the right thing in the eyes of the world.. we all complain that the wtb&ts/jehovahs witnesses is a cult religion that sucks,destroying family relationships,here is a chance to do something about it.
whether you agree with steven unthank or not,here is an opportunity to stick up for the children of jehovah`s witnesses and every other child that a witness calls on in their door to door ministry.. what do you think ?.
smiddy.
Hi Azazel, I agree that the letter writing has helped to raise politicians' awareness of dangerous cults, which was one of my objectives. I was wondering if I should write a reply back to peak their interest more. Something like:
Thank you for replying
I apolozie for not writing more clearly about my intentions. I wanted to inform Senator Brown about another dangersous cult, encase Senator Nick Xenophon or Senator Sue Boyce request a parliamentary inquiry about dangerous cults. I thought that Senator Brown's awareness of dangerous cults might help contribute to a through inquiry and help create legislation to reduce costs by dangerous cults to society.
Some Victorian politicians are already helping Steve Unthank's cause by questioning Victorian officials about their lack of enforcing Victorian child protection law with criminal prosecution.
Thank you again for replying.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
this is a sugestion i have to all members of this board ,members from all over the world, to let the victorian government in australia know that the world is concerned about protecting the children of victoria ,and theirby setting a precedent for the rest of the world, who are interested in the outcome of the criminal charges against the religion of jehovah`s witnesses in refusing to abide by the legislation to get "working with children checks"when required to do so.correct me if i`m wrong but i think if all of us sent letters to the newspapers here in australia ,the different members of parliment here,we would demonstate that the victorian judicial system here is under scrutiny to do the right thing in the eyes of the world.. we all complain that the wtb&ts/jehovahs witnesses is a cult religion that sucks,destroying family relationships,here is a chance to do something about it.
whether you agree with steven unthank or not,here is an opportunity to stick up for the children of jehovah`s witnesses and every other child that a witness calls on in their door to door ministry.. what do you think ?.
smiddy.
I have to admit that Aussie politicians seem a lot more caring than American politicians. At least some Aussie politicians respond with a personal message that is relevant to the original message. Most American politicians respond with a message about the politician's official stance whether it is or is not relevant.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
From: "Sildever, Anna (Sen B. Brown)" <[email protected]>
To: robert
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Thanks for Helping to Educate People about Dangerous CultsDear Robert,
Thank you for contacting Senator Brown; I am replying on his behalf. We appreciate you bringing Steven Unthank’s case to our attention. The case sounds most interesting, but unfortunately Senator Brown is in a position to become involved in individual legal matters.
Kind regards,
Anna Sildever Electorate Officer Office of Bob Brown | Australian Greens Senator for Tasmania GPO Box 404 Hobart TAS 7001| P: 03 6224 3222 | F: 03 6224 2999
www.bob-brown.greensmps.org.au| www.GreensMPs.org.au
while researching tax exempt status of organizations in the usa for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the wtbts, i found this letter from charles w. boustany, jr, oversight subcommittee - chairman to douglas h. shulman, commissioner - internal revenue service, which was dated october 6, 2011. it just made me wonder if aarp's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the wtbts' business practise of extracting donations from jws through building and selling khs be questioned?.
i'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask congressman and senators to investigate the wtbts in specific and cults in general.. what do you think?.
peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
finally awake - The thing is, it's really hard to single out one religious group to go after. The government doesn't want to be seen as persecuting a particular religion. The witnesses are a large enough and old enough group, and they have the financial resources to fight the government if they are singled out. There just isn't a lot of political will to end the special tax treatment of religious groups.
@ finally awake, I started this thread to question whether the political climate has changed from the past to ask emotional questions of politicians. It appears that you feel that it has not and that the WTBTS would use its financial resources to fight the government. Does that mean that the WTBTS would lobby politicians before legislation is past or wait until legislation is law and then file a lawsuit? If the latter, there would be a lot more hurtles to overcome before any laws are enacted.
The biggest hurtle would be to convince politicians that dangerous cults hurt members of society, increase societal expenses, and should be excluded from receiving tax exemptions. The second hurtle would be to convince politicians/judges that excluding financial support for religious organizations, which are dangerous cults, does not conflict with freedom of religion in the Constitution. It seems like an impossible task to achieve, or is it the only desirable outcome?
If you think digitally like a JW (i.e., only two outcomes, good verses bad, win verses lose), the task is impossible. If you think that there could be more than two possibly outcomes, then maybe a desirable outcome is possible.
Although it would be great to pass a law to exclude dangerous cults from being tax exempt, I would be happy with a lot of debate about dangerous cults by Congress and coverage by news organizations to help educate American citizens of the dangers of being deceived and recruited by a dangerous cult. Just peaking people's curiosity about dangerous cults so they would want to learn about what they are and how to protect their children from them would be a good thing.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
while researching tax exempt status of organizations in the usa for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the wtbts, i found this letter from charles w. boustany, jr, oversight subcommittee - chairman to douglas h. shulman, commissioner - internal revenue service, which was dated october 6, 2011. it just made me wonder if aarp's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the wtbts' business practise of extracting donations from jws through building and selling khs be questioned?.
i'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask congressman and senators to investigate the wtbts in specific and cults in general.. what do you think?.
peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
JeffT - The government will not get involved unless somebody comes up with good evidence of fraud, at a personal level.
Hi JeffT, I don't feel that it must be fraud, but I do agree that people do need to write about their personal experiences. Those experiences could be child molestation by an elder and the conspiracy to cover it up. It could be suffering from depression or psychosomatic disorders that adversely affected someone's life. It could be how the WTBTS promotes refusing whole blood transfusions even for children and how parents/elders try to prevent medical personnel from saving children's lives.
If caring Senators and Representatives were told those stories and more stories from other cult victums (i.e., Scientology, the Unification Church, etc.) and how dangerous cult organizations try to retain their tax exempt status, maybe the Senators and Representatives would start to realize that tax codes are inadvertantly supporting dangerous cults. Why help dangerous cults when that money can be used to pay off Federal, State, and Local debt?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
this is a sugestion i have to all members of this board ,members from all over the world, to let the victorian government in australia know that the world is concerned about protecting the children of victoria ,and theirby setting a precedent for the rest of the world, who are interested in the outcome of the criminal charges against the religion of jehovah`s witnesses in refusing to abide by the legislation to get "working with children checks"when required to do so.correct me if i`m wrong but i think if all of us sent letters to the newspapers here in australia ,the different members of parliment here,we would demonstate that the victorian judicial system here is under scrutiny to do the right thing in the eyes of the world.. we all complain that the wtb&ts/jehovahs witnesses is a cult religion that sucks,destroying family relationships,here is a chance to do something about it.
whether you agree with steven unthank or not,here is an opportunity to stick up for the children of jehovah`s witnesses and every other child that a witness calls on in their door to door ministry.. what do you think ?.
smiddy.
I was surprized to receive a response to one of my emails from a Victorian Legislative Council member, upper house of Victorian State parliament. I know that Colleen Hartland (or her assistant) does not write anyting more than"thank you", but my email to her did not ask for a response and she (or her assistant) must be busy enough replying to constituents so why respond to a non-constituent. Could this be qualitative evidence that thanking politicians for some specific action of theirs, may positively influence them?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: Robert
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Thank You for Helping to Protect Jehovah Witnesses' ChildrenHello RobertThank you for your email. RegardsColleen
Colleen Hartland MLC
Western Metropolitan Region
P: 9689 6373
while researching tax exempt status of organizations in the usa for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the wtbts, i found this letter from charles w. boustany, jr, oversight subcommittee - chairman to douglas h. shulman, commissioner - internal revenue service, which was dated october 6, 2011. it just made me wonder if aarp's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the wtbts' business practise of extracting donations from jws through building and selling khs be questioned?.
i'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask congressman and senators to investigate the wtbts in specific and cults in general.. what do you think?.
peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
Paralipomenon - The biggest issue here is that the Watchtower is registered as a religious entity and as such is granted tax-exemption.
Hi Paralipomenon. I know that the WTBTS is registered as a religious entity. I wrote this thread to show members that politicians do investigate organizations when either enough citizens complain about an organization or a politician has been adversely affected by one. I thought AARP was one of those protected institutions that could do no wrong and that Congress would never investigate.
I wonder if politicians may be rethinking their positions about what organizations should be considered tax exempt and which should not. In Australia Senator Nick Xenophon is attempting to exclude dangerous cults (i.e., Scientology) from receiving tax exempt status possibly based on letter(s) from Aaron Saxton and others (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Xenophon). France also tried to exclude the WTBTS from receiving tax exempt status, but its law was overturned by the European Court of Human Rights. If shady practises like what the AARP did caused Congress to investigate them, what would be neccessary for Congress to investigate shady practises by the WTBTS such as the GB effectively owning KH's and not the local congregations, or discouraging members from reporting child abuse to police.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
while researching tax exempt status of organizations in the usa for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the wtbts, i found this letter from charles w. boustany, jr, oversight subcommittee - chairman to douglas h. shulman, commissioner - internal revenue service, which was dated october 6, 2011. it just made me wonder if aarp's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the wtbts' business practise of extracting donations from jws through building and selling khs be questioned?.
i'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask congressman and senators to investigate the wtbts in specific and cults in general.. what do you think?.
peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
While researching tax exempt status of organizations in the USA for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the WTBTS, I found this letter from Charles W. Boustany, Jr, Oversight Subcommittee - Chairman to Douglas H. Shulman, Commissioner - Internal Revenue Service, which was dated October 6, 2011. It just made me wonder if AARP's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the WTBTS' business practise of extracting donations from JWs through building and selling KHs be questioned?
I'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask Congressman and Senators to investigate the WTBTS in specific and cults in general.
What do you think?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Tax-exempt.Oct_6.11_Redacted.pdf
Dear Commissioner Shulman:
In the last few years, Congress and the Internal Revenue Service ("IRS") have focused on the tax-exempt sector in an effort to increase compliance and improve oversight. These efforts led to new rules to prevent self-dealing and similar abuses, increased reporting requirements, and a well-publicized compliance program that resulted in thousands of tax-exempt status revocations for non-compliant organizations.
In addition to these new rules and compliance initiatives, the House Ways and Means Subcommittee on Oversight has continued to explore current issues involving the tax-exempt sector. As you know, in April of this year, the Subcommittees on Health and Oversight held a joint hearing that focused on AARP, one of the oldest and largest tax-exempt organizations in the United States. During that hearing, many issues were raised regarding AARP's tax-exempt status, including its organizational structure and business activities, casting doubt on whether the organization acts exclusively to promote the welfare of all seniors or if it has simply become a for-profit enterprise. Indeed, AARP is not the only tax-exempt organization that more closely resembles a for-profit enterprise, rather than an organization formed for social welfare or public charity. Members of both Subcommittees have expressed concern that other tax-exempt organizations may not be complying with the letter or the spirit of the tax-exempt regime, yet continue to enjoy the benefits of tax exemption.
Therefore, it is my responsibility as the Chairman of the Oversight Subcommittee to explore the current regulatory environment, review the status of new laws and ongoing enforcement initiatives, and gather information on critical issues involving the tax-exempt sector. Your responses to the questions detailed below will provide the Subcommittee with a better understanding of the tax-exempt sector and some of the issues raised during the Subcommittees' hearing on AARP. Please remit your responses no later than October 20, 20 I 1.
. . .
