Posts by ABibleStudent

9

Steven Hassan - Cult Mind Control Exit-Counseling and the SIA (2003)

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

steven alan hassan, cult counselor and mind control expert is a nationally certified counselor and licensed mental health counselor and has developed a breakthrough approach to help loved ones rescue cult mind control victims.

he is a former member of the moon cult.

ex-cult members and others seek him out for specialized counseling to help them recover from symptoms other mental health professionals are not trained to address.

ABibleStudent

Is there anyway to get this information included in the following "Best of Topic" forum threads:

The aforementioned threads contain a lot of great links, but it would be nice if the information was organized to find pertinent information more quickly like a quick summary of the information that can be accessed through the link.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

NewChapter - So you would like to use the tax code to enforce your religious ideals? Lot's of people would like to do that. A nice little dance you did there to let religions off the hook when it comes to birthcontrol and abortion. Take a look at it. Study it. Because if you ever get your way, this is exactly the little dance that we will all get to watch. As far as I'm concerned, most religions victimize their members to some degree. So I ask again, may I have the keys?

Hi NewChapter, If you are willing to write your Representatives and Senators, build consensus with a majority of other Americans, and help to promote a law that does not violate the Constitution and 1st Amendment, you already have the keys. The keys are worthless without working for them.

Do you hate religions so much that you are more interested in reducing donations to all religions or in protecting Americans from dangerous cults? If any law that is inspired by this petition permits you to file a complaint with the IRS about the WTBTS, than you can have another key. If you are willing to get other JWs to also file complaints, than the other JWs will receive keys also. Once enough keys are collected, the IRS would be able to revoke the WTBTS’ tax exempt status. I know that this will not be as satisfying for you as all religions losing their tax exempt status and donations, but sometimes a little is better than nothing.

Also, I do not understand why you write that "So you would like to use the tax code to enforce your religious ideals?" Can you clarify why you write this? The only ideals that I'm promoting are freedom of religion and speech for individuals. I'm trying to understand your intentions and/or motivations without assuming anything.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

15

JW Study, close to baptism, begins to ask questions following our conversation

by uk_ex_jw in

i will keep this brief.. a jw study who recently contacted me on facebook, has been to the elder's following a conversation with me in where i outlined my reasons for leaving the wt society.. he originally started asking me why i wasn't a jw anymore and how important it was that i returned to the 'truth' and how the devil was ruling the world and turning people against jehovah's people etc etc.

he was, as you would expect, full of beans and enthusiastic about what he was learning and telling me how he couldn't wait to get baptised now.. he was studying years ago - that is how i knew him.

since then he has been off doing his own thing and now they have managed to rope him back again.. i have explained to him that i do not believe that jw's have the truth, sent him video's, and other evidence, about the paedophilia situation, un scandal, links to the mason's, changed doctrines regarding blood/generation and so forth.. he sent me a reply and said that he wasn't sure anymore and that he agreed with me that the wt society was controlling.

ABibleStudent

uk_ex_jw - Does anyone have any advice for if they do?

Hi uk_ex_jw, Great work!! Just keep planting seeds by asking those simple questions that you have been asking. Have you read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves")? His last book may give you some more ideas about talking with the elders.

Do you become an Ace or Super Apostate if you help 5 JWs to awaken?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

ABibleStudent - If you will reply to the following questions, I may be able to better understand your concerns and respond to your comments better:
Would you sign a petition that eliminated all religious organizations from receiving tax exemptions?
Can non-religous organizations be dangerous cults? (HInt: According to Steve Hassan, this is possible.)
If all organizations did not receive tax exemptions (religious and non-religious organizations), how would motivate a dangerous cult to stop victimizing its members?
According to what I have written so far, If no member or employee of an organziation files a complaint with the IRS, would the IRS be able to revoke that organization's tax exempt status?
Which scares you more, a democraticly elected politician, who must run again every 2 to 6 years, or a religious leader, who is appointed by other religious leaders and cannot be removed from serving by rank and file members of the religion?
If you were able to speak freely without fear of reprisal (i.e., being shunned) to religious leaders about their hellfire speeches and birthcontrol doctrines, would you publicly disagree with the leaders of that religion?

Hi NewChapter, Thank you for answering 5 questions out of 6, but question #3 needs to be answered. From your answers it appears that you have a predisposition to remove tax exemptions for all religions and are less concerned with protecting Americans from dangerous cults.

The intent of the White House petition is to protect Americans from dangerous cults. Removing tax exemptions for all religions, does not protect Americans from dangerous cults for two reasons. Non-religious dangerous cults will not be discouraged from victimizing their members and employees. Religious dangerous cults would have no incentive to stop victimizing their members. What you view as the government choosing to favor one religion over another is in my opinion a way to motivate a dangerous cult to stop victimizing its members or to risk an uncertain future. It is the fear of an uncertain future that will encourage a dangerous cult to stop victimizing its members. It is not the realization that an organization has an uncertain future and must find ways to survive.

Unless a great answer is discovered for question #3 that would not violate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, I feel that removing tax exemptions for all religions will not protect Americans from dangerous cults.

Since you seem to believe that removing tax exemptions for all religions is a good idea, I encourage you to write your Senators and Representatives, create a White House Petition (if you feel it would help), write threads on JWN, create a Facebook page, etc. to promote it. If you create a White House petition, please let me know because I would sign it. I would sign a petition to remove tax exemptions for all religions for the following reasons: it might promote public debate about the value of supporting religions, and may be it would open people’s minds to other ways to protect Americans from dangerous cults.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

NewChapter - You keep assuming that I don't understand. My reading comprehension is fine, and I am able to grasp concepts. I am saying I understand, and I disagree. How is it not favoring one religion over another to choose which ones get to be tax exempt? When has the govt. ever allowed donations to terrorist activities to be tax exempt? When has it allowed it to even be legal? you are drawing false equivalencies.

Hi NewChapter, I don't assume that you do not understand. Do you remember writing the following in the thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/225023/3/URGENT-Please-Sign-White-House-Petition-to-Protect-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults-Modify-USC-Title-26-c2a7-501-Tax-Exemption-Requirements

NewChapter - I have not read through all of the posts yet, but wanted to get this out. While I would love to see the WT fall, we have to be careful that the means we use don't have unintended consequences. Requesting this type of thing is asking government to come in and monitor religion. I am not religious. I don't even like religion. However, this is America, and we have left these decisions up to individuals. I adamantly oppose when conservatives try to inject their freaky views of god and universe into policy, and I'm certainly not going to inject my own feelings against any religion into any policy.

If I wrote what you wrote in Bold lettering above and then did not respond to your questions in other posts, how would you feel about my opinion and comments?

If you will reply to the following questions, I may be able to better understand your concerns and respond to your comments better:

Would you sign a petition that eliminated all religious organizations from receiving tax exemptions?
Can non-religous organizations be dangerous cults? (HInt: According to Steve Hassan, this is possible.)
If all organizations did not receive tax exemptions (religious and non-religious organizations), how would motivate a dangerous cult to stop victimizing its members?
According to what I have written so far, If no member or employee of an organziation files a complaint with the IRS, would the IRS be able to revoke that organization's tax exempt status?
Which scares you more, a democraticly elected politician, who must run again every 2 to 6 years, or a religious leader, who is appointed by other religious leaders and cannot be removed from serving by rank and file members of the religion?
If you were able to speak freely without fear of reprisal (i.e., being shunned) to religious leaders about their hellfire speeches and birthcontrol doctrines, would you publicly disagree with the leaders of that religion?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

NewChapter - I understand what the purpose is ABS. I'm am trying to pull it out and take it to some logical conclusions. When we allow governments to favor certain religions over others, we give them power. And who will contain that power? Now I say if I had the power, I would take tax exemption away from religions that teach that birthcontrol and disease prevention is evil. I believe this leads to deaths.

Hi NewChapter, When you make statements like the above, I do not feel that you understand the purpose of the White House petition. Government would not be favoring one religion over another. Religious leaders would be free to choose either to promote freedom of religion and speech to their members or not to. Organizations which choose not to promote freedom of religion and speech (and a sufficient number of their members file complaints with the IRS) would be in jeopardy of losing their tax exempt status.

How would government be favoring one religion over another? The IRS already has the power to prevent tax exempt organizations (including religions) from funding terror organizations. I am sure that terrorists are very upset with the government for not allowing their terror activities to be tax exempt. The White House petition just moves the line on what society is willing to support with tax exemptions to also protect members of an organization by requiring that organizations and their leaders must promote freedom of religion and speech to its members, instead of intimidating their members.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

Cofty - I am puzzled by your surprise BibleStudent.
Raising a child to believe in hellfire is child abuse.
Teaching children that homosexuality is a perversion is shameful.
Indoctrinating children with creationism is harmful to the future of the child and American society.
The only fair petition would be to remove all benefits from all religions.

Hi Cofty, How are you doing? Although I do not feel that religions should get tax exemptions for only spreading their religious doctrines, I prefer to choose battles that I may have a chance at winning.

I also agree with you that some religious leaders do promote doctrines that I am total against, and I wish that their members would tell those leaders to go to HELL. This petition is more about empowering members of an organization to feel free to disagree with their leaders, than it is about infringing on the rights of individuals.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

I am not being sarcastic! Or is it so easy to dismiss an abuse of a religion that does not stem from JW shunning etc. I was hurt a great deal more by the hellfire teaching than I was by the shunning policy. So if I were in power, and I had the right to choose favorite religions, I'm just saying that any religion that preached hellfire and indoctrinated their children with phobias and anxieties would be thrown out the door.
The Catholic church would get the thumbs down also, because of their irresponsible, and life threatening doctrines agains birthcontrol and disease control.
Think about THAT, when you are so anxious to give unprecedented power to others over religions that are not their own.

Hi NewChapter, I'm sorry that the hellfire teaching affected you more than the shunning. I absolutely disagree with religious leader(s) preaching hellfire. I would also defend those leader(s) right to preach hellfire, as well as their members rights to tell the leader(s) to go to HELL.

Have you carefully read and understand any of my posts supporting the White House petition? From your posts, I believe that you have not attempted to understand the purpose of any law that would be inspired by the White House petition. The petition would allow members of a religion to publicly disagree with its leader(s) and would not allow those leader(s) to promote to their other members to shun or mark members who disagreed with the leader(s).

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

NewChapter - I think religions that preach hellfire as a penalty for walking away are using coercion and terror to keep adherents bound. Can we add that to the list of things that would lose tax exemption?

Hi NewChapter, Are you kidding? How does a religion preaching hellfire not to leave the religion, have anything to do with requiring that an organization must promote freedom of religion and speech to its members? I feel that you are either not reading and understanding what other posters write about supporting the White House petition, or you are stuck in your own preconceived position about this topic.

Although I feel you are being sacrastic with your question, I will compliment you on asking a clarifying question.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

6

Ultra-Orthodox Jews Shun Their Own For Reporting Child Sexual Abuse

by blondie in

jw
friends

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/nyregion/ultra-orthodox-jews-shun-their-own-for-reporting-child-sexual-abuse.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig.

ultra-orthodox shun their own for reporting child sexual abuse.

the first shock came when mordechai jungreis learned that his mentally disabled teenage son was being molested in a jewish ritual bathhouse in brooklyn.

ABibleStudent

The police, aided by the motel’s security camera, identified the man as Joseph Gelbman, then 52, of Kiamesha Lake, a cook who worked at a boys’ school run by the Vizhnitz Hasidic sect. He was arrested, and the intimidation ensued. Rabbi Israel Hager, a powerful Vizhnitz rabbi in Monsey, N.Y., began calling the mother, asking her to cease her cooperation with the criminal case and, instead, to bring the matter to a rabbinical court under his jurisdiction, according to the mother’s statement to the court. Rabbi Hager did not return repeated calls seeking comment.

Why would a leader of a religion try to intimidate a victim or their family from cooperating with the police? Religious leaders should console victims and their families and listen to perpetrators. Since religious leaders are not qualified to investigate crimes, let the police, prosecutors, and judges do what they have been trained to do.

Why would members of a religion want to shun a victim or their family because they cooperated with the police?

Smells like a dangerous cult to me.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert