Posts by Essan

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

Consfearacy said: It hasn't been my observation that the faithful and discreet slave has deliberately lied or covered up a mistaken viewpoint.

Ah, the old 'head in the sand' defense. Don't you bother to read the posts in this thread? I suppose by simply not bothering to read what people write and the evidence they provide you can always claim that you 'haven't observed the Society lying'. You know full well what the Society actually preached about 1914 in the run up to that year and you know full well that the vast majority of the rank and file of JW's have no clue what the Society actually preached about 1914, but think something very different was preached.

How could this possibly be the case if they had not been lied to?

Here's an experiment for you: in the Hall and for the next week chat to the Brothers and Sisters relaxedly about how the Brothers were preaching that the world would end in a fiery Armageddon in 1914 and that Jesus presence had begun in 1874, and that this 1874 date for Jesus arrival was a Society teaching until after 1930. Try doing that and see if they aren't deeply shocked. See if some don't call you a liar and perhaps even report you for apostasy. See how long it takes before you are called into the 'back room' by the Elders to be questioned and warned to keep your mouth shut - for speaking the truth in "The Truth".

If there has been no lie, then why would they be shocked on hearing the truth?Why would the truth be a problem? You won't do this - oh, I wish you would - because you already know the truth and you know what will happen if you speak about it! The Society lied and still lies and actively protects it's lies from exposure!

As I'm tired of copying out text for someone who doesn't bother to read what's written in case they might accidentally expose themselves to the truth, I'll simply post links to examples of this current lie, which is directly relevant to our topic. Remember, you claimed - wrongly, but I'll play along - that the identifying mark of a False Prophet was lying.

Go here and read the quotes at the top of the page. Compare them:

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php

Note that they completely contradict each other. That is because the Society is lying. These lies represent their current position. They are currently liars .

Read on if you want to and the following link offers a little more detail about this deliberate deception:

http://www.xjw.com/1914lies.html

Here is a little explanatory text from the second site linked:

"Regarding the Watch Tower's core doctrine of Christ's second coming ("presence," Gr. parousia) in the year 1914, there is a prevailing popular notion among Jehovah's Witnesses that their founder, C.T. Russell, predicted and evangelized this glorious event for the better part of 40 years in advance of its fulfillment, as they believe it to be. It is a general concept that Russell's Bible Students heralded a warning, pointing to the Advent in 1914, and that its fulfillment was made evident by the outbreak of World War I in that year, thus proving Jehovah's favor on the Bible Students' movement. The 1914 parousia being the nucleus of Jehovah's Witnesses' present "good news of the Kingdom" message, the Watch Tower has served to nurture that misconception about their predecessors' early teaching with misleading inferences in their publications over the past half century... Such misleading statements belie their known history"

Here is a link to a letter a Brother wrote to the Society regarding their lies about their history (and he includes a few more examples of false statements published in the literature regarding 1914)

http://www.607v587.com/Letter%20re%201874.htm

The rest of your post is irrelevant and off topic rambling and doesn't warrant a response.

23

UN & NGO - PRO-WT Apologetics is TOP HIT on Google search!

by Essan in

i typed in 'watchtower ngo' into google search the other day and was shocked to see that the top result was for a pro-wtbts site called 'jehovahsjudgement'.

i'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites jw's searching for the truth about the society's involvement with the un are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the society affiliating with the un is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!.

this pro-wtbts site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a google search and i had to look really hard to find it.

Essan

Thanks Middleman, both for responding here and for all your hard work in exposing the ridiculous and hypocritical apologetics of those who refuse to hold the Society to the same standards with which it mercilessly condemns every other religion and their members - preaching death for 'sins' they themselves commit, and then lying about it!

I look forward to the new site and hope that members will help in the meantime by linking to your blog and getting the word out.

If anyone else who has any other suggestions regarding how to resolve the anomaly discussed in the first post then I'd love to hear them.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

Yeah, the Watchtower Society aren't the only False Prophets, the Bible said there would be many. But they are the probably the most well known.

35

EXPOSING THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ONLINE.

by Vinny in

i still spend some time here and there exposing the wt society for what it truly is (a man originating, man run, high control religious cult-like religious institution), rather than what they tell people they are (god's appointed channel/organization/people etc).

the facts prove without a doubt that god was never behind any of this:http://www1.tip.nl/%7et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm.

here is the link to that letter: http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html.

Essan

Exposing the Watchtower online? Seems like the right place to leave this link :)

http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/

23

UN & NGO - PRO-WT Apologetics is TOP HIT on Google search!

by Essan in

i typed in 'watchtower ngo' into google search the other day and was shocked to see that the top result was for a pro-wtbts site called 'jehovahsjudgement'.

i'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites jw's searching for the truth about the society's involvement with the un are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the society affiliating with the un is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!.

this pro-wtbts site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a google search and i had to look really hard to find it.

Essan

Hi Bohm. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

So you are saying that the site exposing the Pro-Society site - the jehovah's judgement exposed site - is a blog and therefore won't appear as a top result? So if it became a proper site, it might appear at the top?

Are you saying that if lot's of people here linked to it then it might reach the top? If so, I'll link it again! :) http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/

Something needs to be done about this as I think it's very damaging. What I can't understand is there are so many great sites and pages out there presenting all the information and reasoning on it in light on the Society's own statements and reaching the only reasonable conclusion - that the Society is a liar and a hypocrite - yet this one Pro-JW site appears before them? I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm sure there is something we as a community can do about it. I know I'm not the only one who cares that JW's have the best possible chance of discovering the whole truth if they manage to muster up the courage to look online.

Who is going to win the internet war, the Ex-JWs and 'conscious' JW's, or the Society and their worshippers online?

23

UN & NGO - PRO-WT Apologetics is TOP HIT on Google search!

by Essan in

i typed in 'watchtower ngo' into google search the other day and was shocked to see that the top result was for a pro-wtbts site called 'jehovahsjudgement'.

i'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites jw's searching for the truth about the society's involvement with the un are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the society affiliating with the un is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!.

this pro-wtbts site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a google search and i had to look really hard to find it.

Essan

I typed in 'Watchtower NGO' into Google search the other day and was shocked to see that the TOP result was for a Pro-WTBTS site called 'jehovahsjudgement'

I'm very disappointed by this because it means that one of the first sites JW's searching for the truth about the Society's involvement with the UN are going to come across is this deceitful apologetics page which tries to make it seem like the Society affiliating with the UN is no big deal and perfectly acceptable!

This Pro-WTBTS site is successfully debunked by a response site - http://jehovahsjudgmentexposed.blogspot.com/ - which takes apart their excuses and manipulative deceptions fairly expertly, but still, this site doesn't appear when you do a Google search and I had to look really hard to find it. And while this site allows response comments and feedback, so there can be open discussion, and it even links directly to the site it is debunking, the Pro-WTBTS site does not allow comments or discussion (surprise, surprise) and has no links to a counter argument, and apparently does not make changes to factually incorrect material or include all relevant material - if it is damning to the Society - even when these errors and omissions are pointed out to the author (I think the author goes by the name of Thirdwitness online).

I think it's a real shame that JW's just beginning to allow themselves to question the Society's words and actions and who are still, most likely, looking for any excuse - however feeble - to dismiss the upsetting accusations against the Society, are going to find this site FIRST when they Google "Watchtower NGO". This could hinder a lot of people from investigating further and discovering the whole truth.

Is there any way this can be rectified? How do certain sites manage to become the top search result and how can that be changed?

Any thoughts.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

Designs, I'm not a Trinitarian and this isn't a Trinity topic. So please don't muddy the waters by switching the issue. Stay on topic.

The very best your line of reasoning can possibly hope to achieve is the extremely childish "Well if our Society is a False Prophet! Then so are they!" Fine, they're all false prophets together, the Society and all. I have no problem with that.

Stellar defense of the WTBTS, there.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

Consfearacy,

Your arguments have been totally destroyed over several pages by several posters. You have completely ignored clear Scriptures and even the Society's own explicit comments on these matters. If I thought that your arguments were persuasive or appeared reasonable, I might have continued to address all of them at length, for the sake of any who may be following the discussion rather than for your sake, because you seem incapable of reason. But frankly, I doubt that anyone reading what you have said could fail to see the that you have absolutely no case and are generally talking irrelevancies and nonsense, so there is no need for me to respond at length to everything you wrote. You do an excellent job of overturning your own reasoning without my help. However, I will address a few points.

You said: None of these qualities God instils as a result of his active force on human consciousness bestows the ability to foresee future events; prophesying.

OK, so if they didn't have this capacity, then this is another reason why The Society and it's leaders should NEVER have attempted to predict dates regarding future events and should never have preached these dates as central to their doctrine, as "God's mouthpiece" etc, and should not have insisted that these date predictions be accepted by their followers as "indisputable fact", misleading and stumbling them! They should never have pretended to have a capacity they did not have! The Society and it's leaders were thus presumptuous in the extreme!:

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say... must be put to death... If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." - Deut 18:20-22.

Accurate interpretation - "interpretations belong to God" - of sacred secrets, such as those contained in the Bible, is also the work of prophets, such as Daniel. The Society attempted this, insisted they were right, and failed spectacularly and repeatedly! If you presumptuously attempt the work of a prophet of God, and fail, what does that make you?

You said: Deliberately and consistently lying out of a selfish motive is the identifying mark of a false prophet.

No, the Bible is clear about what identifies a false prophet and Scriptural proofs are littered here over the previous pages, but you ignore them. You ignore the Bible, the Society itself and now, basic reasoning. This is so simple a small child could understand it it. We are talking 1 + 1 = 2, here! That you cannot, or will not, understand is testimony to the degree to which you willing to retard your own reasoning abilities in order to protect the Society. So I'll keep this as simple as possible:

What does the Bible call someone who lies? A "Liar". Lying is the identifying mark of a '"Liar".

What does the Bible call someone who makes false predictions? A "False Prophet". The identifying mark of a "False Prophet" is "false prophesy", which as Deut. 18 & Matt 24 shows includes prominently: failed predictions.

So, to recap:

Lying = 'Liar'

False Prophesying = "False Prophet"

It's really very, very simple. But let's imagine that deliberate lying for selfish motive was the identifying mark of a False Prophet as you falsely claim - I and others have already proven that the Society is Lying NOW about what it preached in the past, such as regarding 1914. So, by the Bible's standards the Society is a False Prophet because of it's failed predictions and by your reasoning the Society is a False prophet because it is currently a deliberate liar. Either way....

269

Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

so please feel free to post your experiences.

Essan

Wow, MLE, it's so weird to think of you being at a convention and being an attendant, knowing what you know and thinking as you do. As you say, it makes you wonder how many JW's are like that, maybe even some of those giving the talks. LOL. I couldn't do what you do. I couldn't take it. I'd just want to stand up and scream: "This is all bull****! Can't you see? Wake up! Am I the only one who sees it?" LOL.

My last meeting was a convention like that. I felt like I had a bomb in my stomach that was blowing up continually all three days. I couldn't listen to the manipulation and guilt tripping and assorted nonsense any longer.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

Consfearacy, what is silly about this discussion is that, not only do your arguments consistently disregard the Bible's statements about this matter but they also directly contradict the Society's own statements on these matters, as other posters have pointed out to you. According to both the Bible and the Society, a "False Prophet" who also says some (possibly) true things, or is otherwise a nice guy, is still a "False Prophet", and is to be avoided by true Christians.

You need to stick to the topic. If you want to talk about other aspects of doctrine which - you think - will somehow stop the "leaven" of repeated False Prophesy from fermenting the "whole lump" then create a thread about those doctrines, but they are not relevant here. I'm not going to talk about the Society's 'Paradise Earth' Doctrine in a thread about "False Prophesy", because it's off topic and doesn't excuse it. Actually, the WTBTS's 'Paradise Earth' version of the 'Good News' is Scripturally wrong, and is easily demonstrated to be wrong, and if you create a thread about it I'll explain why. But not here. And even if it were right, it doesn't change anything with regard to this topic.

Your comment that not all the dates I listed were wrong "by any means" is not really honest - if you are a JW (you sound as if you might be a Bible Student?) - as only about 3 survive out of the huge list I gave, and they DO NOT have the same significance for JW's now as they did back then. Their meaning has been completely changed.

The reason for highlighting the "false prophesying" of the WTBTS is because most JW's are unaware of it, because the Society today hides it's history and lies about what happened back then and about what they actually preached, the result of which is that JW's today imagine that 1914 is some kind of badge of honour and proof of their religion's rightness, when in fact, 1914 was probably their religions greatest error and embarrassment. Most JW's know nothing of this, because they have been lied to. That's why we discuss it. What they should do about it is up to them, but it's only right they have all the facts and face their significance in light of the Scriptures. The Society has not 'repented' of their false prophesying because it is STILL lying about it's past! It is covering up it's sin - the opposite of repentance!

The individual Bible Students and JW's who naively trusted the Society were gullible and deceived. I was one of them at one time. This was made possible because they were manipulated into 'trusting in men' and an 'Organization' far too deeply, despite Scriptural warning about this. This is what they need to 'repent' of.