Posts by Essan

269

Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

so please feel free to post your experiences.

Essan

DjEggnogg said: "For Russell did not predict any date at all, but had only indicated that his calculations had revealed that Jesus' invisible presence had begun in the year 1874. Like I told you before when you brought this up early on in this thread, there is a difference between Jesus' "presence" and Jesus' "coming." The first occurred in 1914 whereas the second will not occur until after the great tribulation."

GIVE ME STRENGTH!

DJ, For the FIFTH TIME!

The CATEGORICAL PROOF that Russell PREDICTED CHRIST'S "COMING" FOR 1914 - the evidence, NEW evidence, that YOU ASKED FOR - is on page 10 of this thread, in my post 328, which is eleven posts down from the top:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/196432/10/Have-your-JW-Relatives-Explained-about-Generation-Overlap-Change-to-You

READ IT, RESPOND and RETRACT this wholly false claim that you keep making which is proven completely untrue by numerous direct quotes from Russell himself, given as you requested!

Or be thoroughly exposed as a deliberate fraud and a liar, at worst, or a complete simpleton at best.

73

Petition against MadJW

by brotherdan in

i'd like to submit a motion that we no longer respond to posts posted by madjw.

he's using this forum to spam all of us into going to his wts defending website.

he also claims to be a regular pioneer and gets the majority of his time by posting on this site.

Essan

Edited into oblivion :)

73

Petition against MadJW

by brotherdan in

i'd like to submit a motion that we no longer respond to posts posted by madjw.

he's using this forum to spam all of us into going to his wts defending website.

he also claims to be a regular pioneer and gets the majority of his time by posting on this site.

Essan

I'm very tempted to back this idea, BD.

There are a few JW apologists here - Alice, DJeggnog, MadJW, - who, even though they have different styles, all debate in a way that is obviously so grossly dishonest that there is really no way to differentiate it from lying. I personally don't think proven liars should be tolerated here. If I were the board Mod I'd probably ban them. But such moves are often met with opposition as some value freedom of speech - even blatantly dishonest speech - above all else. So I doubt you'll have much success. Actually, MadJW doesn't so much debate as just..... bait. Does freedom of speech include protection of the freedom to bait and be a pointless irritant? Maybe. I doubt it.

Maybe there is a case to be made for such ones being here and their deception being exposed.

I don't know. But I can totally understand your frustration.

97

Beware of the Strawman argument!

by Farkel in

jw
friends

years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.

it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.

it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.

Essan

Agreed OP. And an understanding of logical fallacies is really useful for anyone questioning the Watchtower Society's teachings in their literature, because the Society use little else.

269

Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

so please feel free to post your experiences.

Essan

Dj said to Mad Dawg: "I'd be interested in seeing what you can provide in support."

No, he wouldn't Mad. That evidence you refer to regarding 1943 was given to DJ much earlier in this thread (page 7), and there have been more than 8 references to it since then, yet, you notice he's still asking for the evidence now, as if he's never seen it, claiming he'd be "interested to see it".

That is what he does: he makes a false claim, asks for evidence to the contrary, claiming or implying it doesn't exist, then when you provide it he ignores it, doesn't respond, and keeps repeating his false claims - and even keeps asking for evidence he has already been given! He's also shown himself unprepared to do the research for himself which further indicates that he's not interested in the knowing truth but in protecting his delusion.

DJ keeps his hands pressed tightly over his eyes and says "Where is the evidence? I have seen no evidence! Such evidence does not exist".

Halfwitted or grossly dishonest? You decide.

269

Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

so please feel free to post your experiences.

Essan

Dj Eggnog repeated - again - "

Can you post here a citation from any of the WTS' publications that specifically [indicates] that Russell predicted "the invisible coming of Christ in 1914"? I'd like to read one of these WTS publications wherein it is stated how Russell actually made a prediction as to "the invisible coming of Christ in 1914." Do you have anything like that?...

First of all, there is a difference between Jesus' "presence" and Jesus' "coming," and I cannot make this any [clearer] than I have made it. In my [previous] post"

DJ, this objection has been totally refuted. Evidence was presented to prove that Russell definitely predicted Jesus "COMING" for 1914. It is on page 10 of this thread, 11 posts down (it is my post number 328) - http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/196432/10/Have-your-JW-Relatives-Explained-about-Generation-Overlap-Change-to-You
Have you read these quotes of Russell's that you asked for and that have been provided to you, or are you simply ignoring them? They are not the first set of quotes, the clear import of which you were unable to discern, they are another set , more explicit (for those dull in perception) and dealing specifically with Christ's "coming" .
Honesty and courtesy require that you read the evidence you asked for and respond to it by retracting your false claim, as this continual evasion and repeating of claims despite unequivocal evidence disproving them is destroying what little shreds of credibility you may have left.

25

They didnt leave because of doctrine-they left BECAUSE OF THEMSELVES!

by Joliette in

this is an actually quote made by a district overseer at a convention in dekalb illinois in august of 2008...yep, no joking, swear on a holy bible...he actually said that.

just thought about the quote and thought i should post it to share it with the fellow 'apostates' (sarcasm)..

Essan

They demonize people who leave. That's how they prevent others from pondering on why the best and brightest among them eventually exit the organization.

"They left because there was something fundamentally wrong with them" is what they say to avoid having to face the question: "is there something fundamentally wrong with us?".

77

# 1 scripture that Jehovah Witnesses avoid, when denying they are false prophets

by wasblind in

jeremiah 28: 15-17. and jeremiah the prophet went on to say to hananiah the prophet: "listen, please, oh hananiah!

jehovah has not sent you, but you yourself have caused this people to trust in a falsehood.

therefore this is what jehovah has said, ' look!

Essan

Nice quote Mary.

It's amazing how much Alice's argument rests what the Society calls "human reasoning" and on ignoring explicit Scriptures which are inconvenient to her as well as ignoring self-condemnatory statements in the Watchtower where they unwittingly but undeniably identified themselves as 'False Prophets'.

The Society outs themselves as False Prophets - Alice doesn't care.

The Bible - both NT and OT shows them to be as 'False Prophets' - Alice doesn't care.

So, Alice says 5% tainted (I totally dispute your percentages Alice, but whatever) "will never change" the 95% untainted - but Jesus says "a little leaven ferments the whole lump" and the Society says God "does not compromise with error" nothing can make God see any "error as petty or insignificant". But Alice doesn't care.

Maybe it's about time you stopped "leaning on your own understanding", Alice? Clearly it's not doing you any good.

77

# 1 scripture that Jehovah Witnesses avoid, when denying they are false prophets

by wasblind in

jeremiah 28: 15-17. and jeremiah the prophet went on to say to hananiah the prophet: "listen, please, oh hananiah!

jehovah has not sent you, but you yourself have caused this people to trust in a falsehood.

therefore this is what jehovah has said, ' look!

Essan

Alice, your wrong, Jesus says so at Matt. 24:23-26. The Watchtower Society can't have their history of falsely predicting and proclaiming the return of Christ and escape being identified as False Prophets.

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it."

But you don't care what Jesus said, do you?

77

# 1 scripture that Jehovah Witnesses avoid, when denying they are false prophets

by wasblind in

jeremiah 28: 15-17. and jeremiah the prophet went on to say to hananiah the prophet: "listen, please, oh hananiah!

jehovah has not sent you, but you yourself have caused this people to trust in a falsehood.

therefore this is what jehovah has said, ' look!

Essan

No Mad, the WT Society claim to be a "Prophet", as the quote provided proved, and they refer to themselves as a "prophet-like" organization.

You imply they only do the latter. They don't. They do BOTH.

One thing is absolutely clear, the Society are condemned in this by their own words. Let's "do the math":

They claim to be a prophet + they explicitly said that those who wrongly predict the end are "false prophets" and that motive is irrelevant = The WTBTS is by it's own standards a 'false prophet'.

This unwitting self-condemnation is handy, but not the main point. The main point is that they also totally fit the OT and NT definitions of a "False Prophet". For true Christians, that's all that really matters. For JW's the Society's self-condemnation should be enough to wake them up. For us it's just a very funny bonus.