Posts by Essan

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

DJ, it seems like the more you and your deceptions are exposed the more you simply fall back on making grandiose and grotesquely delusional claims of virtual apostleship and prophet status, insisting your words are God's. etc. You aren't even bothering to respond to the hard evidence presented to you any more - not even to lie about it, as you did formerly - but now you just ignore it and tell us instead how wonderful you are and how we should treat you as a messenger from God. You clearly feel you are infinitely superior to everyone here and seem to expect us to be awed or impressed by you. But your 'reasoning' has been utterly overturned and defeated and your conduct with regard to the issue addressed in this thread has been revealed as blatantly dishonest and underhand, so what on earth makes you think for one second that anyone is going to believe you when you arrogantly claim to represent God and that we should receive you as we would Christ, etc?

Surely you recognize that you need to show the 'fruits' of someone worthy of such respect as you evidently think you are due? Whereas, all we have seen from you is a barrow-full of rotten 'fruit' so far. You don't even meet the standards for being seen as an honest and reasonable JWN poster, never mind meeting the standards to be recognized as one truly representing God.

A first step would be to have the humility to admit that you were totally wrong to claim that Russell predicted nothing for 1914 and to admit that he did indeed predict the "Kingdom would come" in that year and that Christ would come to take rulership of the earth in that year; in short, that the Kingdom would be finally and fully established in the earth, from 1914, as Peacedog neatly summarized. Admit too that Russell's writings have been changed, the originals edited to hide his original failed predictions, and that you have been using such later 'doctored' versions, passing them off as Russell's original writings, first perhaps unknowingly but later definitely with full knowledge. All this has been proven beyond question. An honest poster would acknowledge this and admit they were wrong.

Do that, and you might just claw back some small degree of credibility.

Otherwise, I think you can permanently forget about being taken seriously or given the respect you demand here.

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

"Arthur Poppington is a regular but delusional man who believes that he is a superhero named Defendor."

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

Dj said:

"Jehovah's Witnesses do not go beyond the things that are written in the Bible (1 Corinthians 4:6) so as to alter the inspired word of God, and should any one of them do that, we do not hesitate to tell the one that has gone beyond the things that have been written (a) that the Bible doesn't support their statement, and (b) that they ought not be teaching things that the Bible itself does not say."

The unique JW doctrinal framework is composed almost entirely of teachings that "go beyond what is written" and, therefore, so do your beliefs DJ. So you are being rather hypocritical here. We have told the Society they are wrong to do this and we have withdrawn from them because they do not listen and continue to do it, persisting in disobeying God.

But seeing as you encourage confronting one who goes beyond what is written, let me tell you as a 'for instance', that just as the Bible does not say the End would come in 1975 it also does not not say that the Kingdom was established in Heaven in 1914. So, stop going beyond the things written DJ!

Dj says:

"If the Bible doesn't say "Armageddon is coming in the year 1975," then you should not be assuming Jesus' words at Matthew 24:36 ("Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.") to mean something inapposite to what Jesus actually did say in this verse, nor should you assume that because one of Jehovah's Witnesses may be an elder or circuit or district overseer, or a member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses that he is obliged to contradict Jesus' words at Matthew 24:36"

But the Watchtower says in stark contradiction:

"One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. - The Watchtower, "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?", August 15, 1968

So, you tell us we should never dismiss Jesus words at Matt. 24:36, but the Society told us in the run up to 1975 not to pay strict attention to Jesus words, but insisted we fixate on 1975 despite what Jesus said. You are correct in this, of course, and they were very wrong. Thank you for providing the contrast to prove our point and to show how the Society does go beyond what is written and does dismiss clear Scriptural instructions.

Dj said:

"Do not permit yourself to be "bedazzled" by someone position of responsibility with God's organization for no one that would undermine or contradict anything that God's word states should be taken seriously...If you knew from your reading of the Bible that no one could have possibly known the "day and hour," then you should not have believed what you had understood from what you read in this Watchtower article or this other WTS publication"

Precisely. Sage advice. That is why we do not take the Society seriously. But we have taken God's advice in Deuteronomy regarding "False Prophets" and we "do not get frightened at them". They have proven themselves false and unworthy of our attention and fellowship. THey have not proven to qualify as "God's Organization" and so we feel no obligation to have anything to do with them. And you are right that it is actually a good understanding of Scripture that will lead to one rejecting the false teachings of the Society and the Society itself, as a false teacher. That is why most of us are here - because we have greater respect for what the Bible actually says than the JW's who have been deceived into paying greater infinitely attention to what the men of the Society say.

126

BREAKING NEWS on www.jw-media.org

by Wrong Way in

jw
friends

breaking news!.

wow!.

Essan

Debator,

Maybe the Russian government just wants the Witnesses to refrain from producing scathing, insulting literature and going from door to door slandering and bad mouthing other religions and telling people that the members of these religions are deserving of death and that they will all be killed, soon, in their billions? Maybe they want JW's who come to disagree with the Society's teachings to be able to exercise freedom of thought without being demonized and shunned by their congregation and without their family members and lifelong friends being told to avoid all contact with them? Maybe they want JW's to be able to choose whether or not to have lifesaving blood procedures without outside pressure and the threat of sanctions? The JW's are a deeply negative, controlling force, and it doesn't surprise me that some states are waking up to this fact and are attempting to restrain them.

Good.

I hope they do force the JW's in Russia to make serious changes to such policies, or lose their ability to function.

Let's see the JW's try to preach without constantly condemning others and maintain their membership while allowing sanction free thought, speech and choice. it's disgusting that it would have to take state intervention to force such a so-called Christian religion to adopt fair and compassionate attitudes and actions that Jesus himself commanded and thus refrain from judging, condemning and showing a gross lack of love. But if it takes the Russian state to teach Jehovah's Witnesses what goes against Christian love and freedom and to put an end to it, then so be it. Somebody has to. But what a terrible indictment of the JW's.

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

Djeggnog said: "in the past, Jehovah used angels to communicate with men (Hebrews 1:1, 2), but among men He raised up many prophets to speak on His behalf, and, really, except for the archangel that God sent to us, the Lord Jesus Christ, the greatest prophet among men that has ever lived here on earth, they were a ll of these men that prophesied, all represented Jehovah, all spoke in Jehovah's name, as did Jesus, as did Paul, as did Russell, as even do I. When I speak the words of God in your hearing, @Essan, it is it not I that is speaking, but you should know that it is Jehovah that is speaking to you."

Wow.

Just wow.

Have you seen the film "Defendor" Dj?

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

DJeggnog said:

"I'm not willing to play a game of semantics over whether what Russell did was made a calculation of the year 1914 based on his reckoning 2,520 years from the year 607 BC or whether what he did was make a prediction of the year 1914."

Good, because as everyone here knows and has been proven repeatedly he made countless predictions for 1914.

What he specifically did not do was "make a calculation".

Nelson H. Barbour "made the calculation", and identified it's significance of the end of the 'Gentile Times", building on the work of John Aquila Brown. Russell just appropriated his calculation and made predictions regarding what would happen then. But don't be too sad that Russell was just a plagiarist fantasist who False Prophesied his way into ignominy. It doesn't matter that 1914 wasn't his calculation, but just some shiny Adventist trinket he decided to borrow, because 1914 is totally wrong too. Nothing with any Scriptural significance happened, heavenly or earthly, visibly or invisibly in 1914. And may God strike me down if I'm wrong. :)

DJeggnog said:

"And just as folks received the apostle Paul as if he were "an angel of God, like Christ Jesus" (Galatians 4:14), my hope, @Essan, is that you will receive me as you would that chief angel of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and give some thought to what you're going to do before the end comes."

DJ, let's be realistic here for a moment.

Given the thread title and the spectacle you have made of yourself in this thread as you confirm the OP; given that you have referred to me as "Diotrephes" etc. and that, as you know, I identify you as a shameless liar, fraud and defender of a counterfeit Christian Organization and 'False Prophet' - given all that, how likely do you think it that I will ever receive you "as [I] would that chief angel of God, the Lord Jesus Christ" or "just as folks received the apostle Paul as if he were "an angel of God, like Christ Jesus"?

But then, as a JW, ridiculously unrealistic expectations are the very framework of your life. So, dream on.

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

Thanks TD. You clearly have done a lot of research into the early history of the Bible Students and JW's.

I'd love to sneak you into a Kingdom Hall to give a public talk on the true history of the Org. and it's teachings that the brothers and sisters would never forget LOLOL.

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

PD said: "At this point, I honestly hope you're a liar... The alternative, that you actually believe what you're saying, implies a life that is far too bizzare for me to consider."

Yeah, I'm, struggling to make sense of this too: a gross liar, or an absolute moron? Either way it's desperately sad. I wish I were using hyperbole here and simply trying to be insulting. But, no. It really is that bad, as anyone who has read the entire thread can verify. It's profoundly strange. Who knows, perhps there is something to demon possession after all?

209

Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan in

i'm disgusted.

so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.

1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.

Essan

Wow, I had no idea of these other discussions with DJ regarding Jesus supposed taste for infanticide. Thanks Bohm.

And I've noticed that same tendency with other supposed WT apologists here too: They don't care what the Watchtower or it's representatives say. They have their own personal version of the "truth", different to the Society, and they defend the Society according what they think, rather than what the Society thinks and what it says. It's truly bizarre. I'm glad others have noticed and exposed this.

"In my book, when your mental picture of your God-of-Love is that it will kill infants with a sword because some guys couldnt arse themselves over to their place and hand them a brouchure, there is something wrong with your head."

LOL. Very true. Such a view if very revealing of our psychological state of mind, IMO.