i'm disgusted.
so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.
1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.
Debator,
if I wished to point out the Society's flaws now, I would, but that is not what this thread is about. I could point out, on a related note, that the Society lies now about what they taught back then, which has been proven. This thread is about what Russell actually said 100 years ago and beyond, not about the modern day Society lying about this nor any of their other current sins. For every topic under the sun, there is a thread. :)
i'm disgusted.
so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.
1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.
Debator, when a discussion arises about what a historical figure like Russell said...
"He said X"
"No he didn't, he never said X"
...then you have to go back to the original texts to see what was actually said and settle the mater. That is what is happening here. Any further significance of what was said is not under discussion here, only the facts about what was said.
was watching the faith dvd yesterday, and he seems like a smarty pants know it all?
he doesnt seem like a hard hitter or bad ass or anything, but it seems like the kinda guy, that if you went out in field service with, that he would constantly correct you, and have smart ass comments to make about the householders who arent intrested in owning a watchtower or awake..
LOL Designs.
Was hearing Splane like the "hitting rock bottom" alcoholics talk about having to reach before they decide to finally quit for good? :)
i'm disgusted.
so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.
1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.
Thanks Quentin. :)
Few more quotes before I call it a day for today.
"The final overthrow of present governments... will be followed by seven years of socialism and anarchy, to end with 1914 by the establishment of Christ's Millennial government" - Watchtower Reprints August 15th 1892. p239.
"...the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom, October 1914" - Watchtower Reprints July 1st 1899 p 172.
"October, 1914 A.D. By that time the heavenly Kingdom will be in power and the ancient worthies - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the holy prophets - will be resurrected and will constitute the earthly representatives of the spiritual and invisible Kingdom of Christ" - Watchtower Reprints Oct. 1st 1903 p 373.
"Our Lord's presence, as shown in MILLENNIAL DAWN, VOL II, dates from October, 1874... the Kingdom will be fully established, or "set up", by October, A.D. 1914, as already pointed out" - Watchtower Reprints 1st August 1904 p 229.
once again our lurking jw friend sent us the oct. 15th jw study version for the wt studies.
in this article you'll observe the wt society really making jehovah's witnesses question themselves, doubt themselves - even if what they are observing the organization doing - they are not to doubt jehovah or the organization, but their own imperfect human judgments.
in other words : " don't trust your own mind - it's skewed ".. under the article titled, " keep on seeking first his righteousness " on pg.8 it lays the groundwork in stating, " seeking his righteousness includes trying to live according to his values, and perfect standards, not our own.
Hey, if their view is so badly distorted and they can't trust their own judgments then perhaps they should question the wisdom of their decision to join the JW's too?
there seem to have been a strong increase in entymological arguments lately, more precisely regarding the term atheist.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198111/1/lets-settle-this-for-once-and-for-all-is-atheism-a-belief-a-non-belief-or-an-anti-belief.
i have reread the thread and i think i see where it goes very wrong.
You're all a bunch of filthy apostates anyway, especially you Zid.
You've persuaded me of the insanity of Atheists and so I'm going back to the Hall on Sunday :)
i'm disgusted.
so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.
1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.
More:
"And the heirs of the of the heavenly kingdom must so continue, until the appointed time for them to reign together with Christ. During the time of trouble, closing this age, they will be exalted to power, but their "reign" of righteousness over the world can only date from 1914" The TIme is At Hand 1st Ed. p 81.
So, the anointed would begin their reign of 1000 years over the earth, with Christ, after the "time of trouble" or "Tribulation", and this Millennial reign "can only date from 1914".
So Russell is again here clearly saying what I've quoted him saying also elsewhere, that:
1. The Tribulation will be over by 1914: "1914... the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation" will reach it's culmination and will end at that date" - p 78.
2. The anointed must all be with Christ to begin the Millenium with him as Kings by 1914: "Some time before the end of A.D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ...will be glorified with the head; because every member is to reign with Christ, being a joint-heir with him of the Kingdom, and it cannot be fully "set up" without every member" - p 77.
3. "Their reign of righteousness" over earth, with Christ. "can only date from A.D. 1914": "1914...at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying "Thy Kingdom Come," will have obtained full, universal control, and that it will the be "set up" or firmly established, in the earth." - p 77.
This couldn't really be a more explicit prediction that Christ's "Coming" would be in 1914. Even I'm feeling stupid now, having to keep posting this stuff. It's beyond obvious. And this is just from one book! I haven't even started referencing the other Studies in the Scriptures volumes of the Watchtowers from the time yet! DJ, if you don't get it now....well... see my OP.
i'm disgusted.
so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.
1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.
If you go to this link:
http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm#russell
You will find a list of Russell's writings, including "The Time is At Hand", the book DJ and I were arguing about earlier. DJ has a "doctored" later edition from which all the references to Russell's predictions for 1914 and Christ's "Coming" have been sneakily removed or changed by the Society. Thus, DJ claims Russell never made such predictions. But if you click on the link for the 1st Edition of the 'Time is At Hand' you can scans of the original text and see what Russell actually said before he and the Society decided to re-write history to hide their embarrassing false and failed predictions. You can even right click (of Apple button and click for Mac) and download this book to search at your leisure.
I'd appreciate some help with this actually, as I'd like to find some more interesting quotes for DJ, showing exactly what Russell predicted for 1914!
I'll start with the following:
"We consider it an established truth that the final end of the Kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914. Then the prayer of the Church, ever since her Lord took his departure - "Thy Kingdom Come" - will be answered: and under that wise and just administration, the whole earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord - with knowledge, and righteousness, and peace (Psa. 72:19; Isa. 6:3; Hab. 2:14); and the will of God shall be done "on earth as it is done in heaven"' - The Time is At Hand 1st Ed. p 99.
100%, cast iron, unequivocal, undeniable, irrefutable proof that Russell predicted Christ's "Coming" for 1914. How could the Kingdom "come", and it's will be done on earth, in 1914 without it's King having "Come"? It couldn't.
I'll see what else I can find.
i'm disgusted.
so, i'm formally challenging djeggnog to either substantiate or retract his outrageous claim that:.
1. russell made no predictions about 1914.. 2. specifically, russell never predicted christ's "coming" for 1914.
Thanks Hadit, I hope it does serve some purpose.
I still hope that DJ researches the original literature from which the quotes he has been provided came and acknowledges what Russell actually taught before 1914. After having acknowledged he was wrong and that Russell did predict countless things for 1914, including the "Coming" of Christ, I hope he goes on to reflect on the fact that he has been lied to and deceived and is simply repeating those lies to others, here. How can anyone not care about being lied to? How can anyone excuse an Organization that does that? How can an Organization that makes such false predictions and then tries to hide it when they fail "qualify" for anything in God's eyes, except destruction?
DJ should have a lot to think about. But even if he doesn't want to give it thought, hopefully other questioning JW's who are reading will.
jehovahs witnesses do not consider themselves to be a protestant religion.
protestantism arose in 16th-century europe in an effort to reform the roman catholic church.
the word protestant was first applied to the followers of martin luther at the diet of speyer in 1529. since then, the term has generally come to describe all those who adhere to the tenets and goals of the reformation.
JW's roots are Protestant by way of Adventism. They just don't like to acknowledge any association or debt to other groups. They like to pretend they are the original religion. What utter bull.
Actually the JW's are the most Protestant of Protestant sects, because they never stop protesting about anything and everything. :)
They protest about collar length hair, beards, trousers on women, careers, fun, thinking, rock music, barn dances, other Christians, vaccines, smurfs, education, Birthdays - you name it, they'll protest against it LOL.
