Posts by 10west

10

JW's are NOT Dedicated to the ORGANIZATION!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the watchtower society claims that jehovah's witnesses are not dedicated to the watchtower organization!.

this claim is made in the quotes below.. however, how can this be true, while at the same time, all jehovah's witnesses are baptized in the name of the "spirit-directed organization"?.

the watchtower, july 1st, 1970, page 404:.

10west

To Jehovah's Witnesses (and those to become):
The first step is raising doubt in your audience. Good news! There are plenty of areas of inaccuracy in worldly belief systems, so raising doubt is easy. Contradictions are a good node, as are hypocrisies, lawlessness and known superstitions eg. The trinity.

Once the doubt sets in, and it will, you offer the thing that has no doubt, God's promises, will, purpose and word concerning the real future of mankind and how it is brought about. Then doubt is turned to the way of truth. This doubt raising is for the purpose of snatching people from destruction, which Christendom and the world are blindly heading for. A great work!

Since the world is already divided, part of the conquest is already started, Christendom is such a place. It is divided and falling, unlike the spiritual paradise of Jehovah's people, Christendom has no core radiator from which truth arises and is broadcast to the sheep. They have no faithful and discreet slave guiding them, and are in fact an all vs. all situation within themselves. No holy spiritual anointed guides. We have many! Truthfully, they can know as we do, this is the truth and life everlasting!

On the margins of this shatter and disorganization, are individuals that Jehovah will call to himself, by Jesus Christ leadership, and they have no control over it. When Jehovah does the drawing, and Jesus draws someone to himself, in accurate knowledge, truth, and power, they can do nothing about it, for Jehovah is the one who chooses and not ourselves, he looks for an honest heart condition, that can be led to a new pasture, a true sheep to be. They will soon also be proclaiming the true and holy, GOOD NEWS!

In the rubble of Christendom, and many worldly philosophical and varied institutions of human service, there are sheep to be, who WILL be brought to Jehovah. They see the nature of the doubt inside themselves, they see that something better must be out there, they cry in their hearts for the truth, they know not Jehovah yet, but they will! When Jesus nets them, there is no escape. In spite of the birds of satan, getting a few seeds, to the ones Jehovah gathers to himself, one of your seeds will find the proper soil, and when Jehovah sets to watering, he will make it grow, and when Michael sets to "scare crowing", no crow of Satan's multi colored flock, will ever touch the seedling again. Doubtless, it's on to maturity in the truth unified globally!

There are many today, who do not know Jehovah yet, who will, by divine decree and assistance, Jehovah and Jesus know their sheep, and they are out in force and power collecting them. NO MAN CAN STOP IT! It is Jehovah's will that all sorts of men and women shall be saved. And yet, as Jesus is raised up, he will gather all sorts of men and women, young and old, globally to salvation!

So onward witnesses, raise doubt with the truth as the promise of God that cannot be doubted, and show them what unity really is, globally, and why Jehovah has chosen us to herald his salvation by Christ Jesus, and why by his power, we cannot doubt his word and command, that when all doubt is removed and truth prevails, that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah, just as the waters cover the sea! We are drops in that sea, the work is great and God aided!

The fields are full of those who doubt what they claim to believe, but when they find Jehovah, and see he has called them for real, all doubt will pass away. It is not over yet, many more, will come to Jehovah!

Welcome all!
He That Caues to Become, is still causing people to become: Jehovah's witnesses! Remember Paul! Remember Moses! Remember David! When Jehovah comes looking for you, HE NEVER FAILS, HE WILL FIND HIS SHEEP!

Onward!!!!!!!

It is Jehovah's will, and cannot be changed or altered!!!!!!!
Welcome! Well, Come!

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

10west

Let me ask you a question:

If you believe that The Father is One God and Jesus is a 2nd lower god (John 1:1), then how are you not violating the 1st Commandment?

To: Undisfellowshipped, Thanks for the welcome.

1. I'll look into the views (modal, etc), so I can't respond to that.

2. I have seen a strange confusion though, and it has to do with both Jesus, as a lesser god, and Satan as the "god" of this system.

Recognizing that a being is a "god", and serving that "god" are two different things. I realize that Paul termed Satan a god, and I think he is that type of spirit form, but I only recognize him as an angel, yes more powerful than man in nature of being, but in spiritual power, as Jesus proved, he is tapping himself for power, while Jesus could call on Almighty power, and others could too. By power of this world, he could be termed it's god, because the whole world is under his power, and thus worship, or work-for, him. Yet to me, I recognize Jesus, in the form he was before he received that human designation, as the only actual god, designated by God Almighty as a god. In his form, though we cannot see it, there is no comparison between an inexperienced angel like this satan, and the deity Jesus, by again, not only the probabilities that a more ancient being is also more in many ways, but also because he can tap Almighty spirit, whereas Satan can tap nothing, he is cut off to himself.

When Jesus apostles first started casting demons, he stated he "perceived Satan fallen, like lightening from the sky (heavens)", so satan can be conquered because his spirit is weakness. His power is in our lack of faith. Again, just because a people recognize that a particular being is a god, does not imply they worship him. To me there is but One Almighty God, who for eternities, was powerful, and perfect, being a solitary God. When he decided to bring another being into existence, it was not an act of loneliness, it was an act of love, and sharing, of something that can't even be termed "thing", he was sharing his deity, and self, with the only begotten one. Even if that begotten one was an exact replica of God Almighty, he lacked a few things, time in existence, and the experience and knowledge and wisdom that only time can bring. We cannot understand how such a consciousness could be given to another, and how an intellect can have a "default" setting, but obviously, you cannot give the experience of actual being, with someone who has just become. It is true, demons have given people visions, of for instance scenes of battles they may have participated in, in who knows what times, and the person being given these visions, and feelings, can experience powerful emotions, and feel like they were there, the fact is they cannot internalize it like the person who was there. No matter how emotional the experience, actually doing it, actually being there, actually living it, is a way different experience, it's full body. A vision, or a memory, is not the same whole as experiencing it first hand.

The point this is making, is a deity, even based on the Master Pattern, the Almighty Deity, can only be given so much, the rest takes time, experience for real, knowledge, training, etc, before it can be termed wisdom even. To me, a twin origin, is not mathematical, much less a triplet. There is a center, there cannot be two or three centers, as a simple logic. Biologically as well, even in an evolutionary sense, there is not a dual evolution in a species past, a bio replication starts from a single origin, even in atomic theory, one atom, no matter how miniscule the interval, starts the chain reaction that ignites the "bomb". There is not a dual creation either, it was linear. In a chaos math sense, there is no 50/50, no matter how miniscule the balance, it tips one way or the other. Even replication, no two atoms, of a like element, are exactly the same, the are similar, but they differ even if one has to go super sub atomic, nothing in this universe observed so far, or with enough depth, is exactly the same. It is one of a kind, whether it be a quark, a dollar, a BMW, or a cue ball, there are extreme or differences so subtle, they cannot be seen. But the principle, like a pattern in one thing, is found in all things, whether it is sonic, visual, structural, etc, everything has a relationship that varies in a gradation of perceptibility. So, somewhere, a song, relates to a rock, and every rock, or a sea gull; I do not know what the use of knowing what it is would be, since we cannot "see" it, maybe that it is there, and it's "way out" and "way in" there. It shows a common origin, but not an absolutely exact replication.

I think, but do not know, that that continues to relate into also spiritual creations, and somewhere just beyond, or way beyond, our human perception, it overlaps an area of complete relationship directly. At the overlap, it is recognizable, the further out you go, into matter, or into spirit, it is two "completely" "different" worlds, but in fact, they are related, imperceptible to the human eye, but not to a human logic, a math, or whatever, we just do not have it yet fully. And even if we did, I do not know what the purpose of it's knowledge would be to human beings. There is a relativity of everything. On the angelic side, they already know the knowledge of it's existence, but not the purpose eternal, or if there will even be one. Forever, is a long time, even for angels, and they are not all knowing or Almighty. When they think they are, that is when the trouble began. It's useless knowledge, the devil's, that is.

I think the origin is a point in linear time, growing in complexity over that time, to a point of completion, that always remains dynamic though. In that becoming, there is a master pattern, and patterns, that ripple through all things, in eternal ways, we do not fully understand. So just because something can be recognized as divine in nature, does not mean it is a polytheistic view. Only one God commands worship, regardless of how many other gods are recognized to be existing also. It is not the worship of many gods, but of just One. The God Almighty. Who has, ironically, no origin, but defines it for all creation, by a point in time, a being, his Only Begotten god, his Son. God's Timepiece and much more.

20

finding the lord...versus finding yourself

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

i have noted many who are ex jw but now are 'born again' or have found the 'lord' telling how wonderful life is now.... i mean no disrespect to those who claim this, and are happy, i can understand i guess, leaving the wt but still wanting to serve 'god' but i just can't come at it.

we all know the story... life sucked, left the watchtower, found jesus, lifes great again.... what about my life?

some of you already know i am not christian and in fact are more anti god/religion than ever.. i was depressed, couldn't live up to the rules, faded out fast, left wife, lost kids, lost every single friend of 30 years, lost every material thing save the clothes on my back, lonely hermit for two years, adultery, disfellowshipped, crazy girl friend, one night stands... you might say life went down the toilet and i needed saving from myself.. wrong!.

10west

It may be like the difference between the common military population, and the true special forces. They may exist within the same branch of the military, but the mindset is another world.

In society, few are special forces, though everyone romanticizes.

Don't say "I was a ranger", true special forces, never leave.

IMO

42

Response to "Do you think the F&DS are directed by Holy Spirit"

by onefootout in

thinking about the article a year ago, 6/15/09 watchtower page 23 para 15.. if you are put on the spot, or even in casual conversation if asked if the f&ds, anointed, gov.

body ect.

make mistakes, have holy spirit, are spirit directed ect.

10west

pirita hit the nail on the head. the "annointed" as a group claim to have no special insight. that eliminates the potential that someone in a congregation could try to overide the GB. It is claimed ONLY that the slave, as represented by the GB have special insight. Here is the question that always bothered me...

how could anyone who is "spirit directed" make a mistake in bible understanding...? why would a doctrine ever change? yes men are imperfect, but God's sprit is not. if he could inspire the bible to be recorded perfectly by imperfect men, if could protect its translation as the WT claims over thousands of years, why cant he prevent those clowns in brooklyn from making mistakes? dosent add up to me...

========================================================Remember

Jesus losing power once, as written?

Generationally, the Holy Spirit does not flow today, as it did in Jesus day. Why?

Our genetic is insulated in an ongoing fashion, to a point where, as it is written:

No flesh would be saved.

This is more than just the destructive winds of the GTribulation, it is indicative of a pattern set in Noah's day, when too, if the days were not cut short?

No flesh would be saved. Why?

In human terms, Satan is reengineering our genetic, and unlike the 16 centuries, and much greater power and connectivity of Noah's day, this last cycle of over 4000 years, is showing the undeniable signs, of for the first time, a fully degenerated "species", spiritually.

The technologies and sciences we are talking about, are of angelic orders, it cannot be fully explained to humans, it must be illustrated.

We are buried many layers now, in slowly increasing disconnectivity, from the Holy Spirit. By special power, God is even communicating to this world, which Satan is burying in it's own flesh.\

Hope that illustrates it simply, but effectively.

21

Passion of the [Irony].

by confliction in

jw
friends

i was just wondering.... why do we jw's make such a big deal about jesus dying on a pole, as opposed to a cross?.

the original word, albeit, can lean either way.

and seems in favor of a pole rather than a cross.

10west

I was just wondering...

Why do we JW's make such a big deal about Jesus dying on a pole, as opposed to a cross?
The original word, albeit, can lean either way. And seems in favor of a pole rather than a cross. But come on.
Why is it such a big deal?

The connotations, sice the cross has become a much powerized symbol of Satanic philosophies, + infinitum, millennium after millennium.

IMO and others

11

another song book fast one

by elderelite in

this one is not as bad as some others but notice the new wording in the last vs ... .

first the old song book... *** ssb song 15 life without endat last!

paradise all will enjoy.

10west

Maybe my typing accidental answered it.

11

another song book fast one

by elderelite in

this one is not as bad as some others but notice the new wording in the last vs ... .

first the old song book... *** ssb song 15 life without endat last!

paradise all will enjoy.

10west

Take a wave recorder, and say Michael's name (Michael) in english in it as a recording, and reverse the wave in a sound editor.

Now, if you play it, you can hear Michael say something about Satan, or is it Satan saying something about Michael. I'm not sure, as Michael never raised an abusive term, but maybe it is not that abusive anymore. Hmmmm

Try it.

So what do YOU hear? Please reply, if you can hear it, then we can start getting into some Soungarden! Who is the SuperUnkown? Micael, or Satan?

What do you think? Please reply.

Thanks

11

another song book fast one

by elderelite in

this one is not as bad as some others but notice the new wording in the last vs ... .

first the old song book... *** ssb song 15 life without endat last!

paradise all will enjoy.

10west

"Do any of the new songs have subliminal messages like Stairway to Heaven???"

Maybe, as both Michael and Satan have a little fun throughout time.

Like this one, as Jehovah's Witnesse teach Israel is not just believing jews of the 144,000, but like Cornelius, people of all nations can be approved as the "Israel of God", so even in the name, apparently is the branding of that:

Jehovah's witnesses

Je______ w___s___

&

Je______ w__esses

Jews and Jewesses

Take a wave recorder, and say Michael's name (Michael) in english in it as a recording, and reverse the wave in a sound editor.

Now, if you play it, you can hear Michael say something about Satan, or is it Satan saying something about Michael. I'm not sure, as Michael never raised an abusive term, but maybe it is not that abusive anymore. Hmmmm

Try it.

11

another song book fast one

by elderelite in

this one is not as bad as some others but notice the new wording in the last vs ... .

first the old song book... *** ssb song 15 life without endat last!

paradise all will enjoy.

10west

"Hmmm... The setting of that song is in the paradise. I guess that means we can still die in paradise if we don't follow the rules."

Just lik Adam, the woman, and Satan. Obedience to the death, or disobedience to the death. Yet one is conquerable, yes? LOL

God's laws apply to men AND angels, if we can't hang, see ya! wouldn't wanna be ya! LOL

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

10west

People like to write: Isaiah 10

And through the philosophizing in words, the simple meaning is lost.

I think the danger with the Trinity philosophy is basic.

First Commandment:

Thou shall have NO gods before my face saith the Lord Almighty.

So, instead, the trinity sews one head on on either side of God's face, thereby comparing the One Almighty Person, with two other "persons", who are not the equals of the Almighty. As great as Jesus is, he is not the Eternal Almighty God's equal.

There in lies the simple danger, an infraction of both first commandments, new and old testament.

It also demonstrates a lack of recognition, on the part of these philosophers, of the true position of the Son, Jesus Christ.

Now, since he is the example, and this trinity teaching distorts his example, it also has related negative influence on people who ingest it mentally. It creates an associated air of superiority or equality, which simply does not exist but in the architect of such a subtlty, Satan the Devil, the only being who has EVER claimed equality to God Almighty.

By simple reasoning, then, this "jesus" of the Trinity is really Satan the Devil.

The is only one true God Almighty, composed of One Person, YHWH.

All other philosophical metaphysics can get you killed for good.