Posts by LorenzoSmithXVII

33

Why did Jesus have to die?

by Crazyguy in

let's think about this for a bit.

adam was tempted and sinned by eating of the fruit.

he missed out on immortality by being denied the tree of life.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Are you kidding? Why did Jesus have to die? He had to die to offer up his perfect, childness body for the inherited death sentence upon Adam's chidlren.

Furthermore, Adam understood precisely what he was doing. He made q choice. He chose to worship and love his wife more than God. That was his choice. It cost a lot.

But underlying Adam's fall is who else got the death sentence, namely, Satan. The test was really a test for Satan. To see if Satan could resist killing billions of innocent people. He couldn't after it was all over. Satan ws frustrated, particularly since the creation of man.

You see, after Adam was created, Jesus, who is Michael the archangel, fell in love with him, that is, with mankind. God recognizes this special love Christ has for mankind by allowing his new wife to be chosen from those among mankind. So you have an angel marrying humans, basically, only the humans, of course are converted to angels. But his new wife essentially takes the place of his old wife. His old original wife was the most beautiful angel in all of heaven, whose beauty corrected him/her. Christ's love for humanity likely pushed Satan over the edge. How could Christ prefer a human, which was no more than an animal to Satan, over him, the most glorious angel in heaven?

So when a chance to kill Adam came up, along with all his offspring, he knew Christ would be devastated and that felt good enough a cause to die for. So Jehovah sort of arranged a window of opportunity for Satan to destroy mankind, but in the process Satan destroyed himself. In the end, Christ's love, mankind, becomes his new but true wife in heaven.

But that reflects on the personalities of Satan vs. Christ. Christ is a kind of down-to-earth kind of person. Even when he was human, he liked hanging out with "real" folk, prostitutes and tax collectors. He didn't like those who were self assumed and haughty and liked being the important ones in the room. Christ found mankind so beautiful and charming, he just couldn't help fall in love with him. this totally pissed off Satan, of course, so Satan tried to get revenge by killing Christ's "new love." Satan didn't care it would mean his/her death, since he was frustrated anyway. He probably figured God would devise a way to kill him off one day anyway or cast him into prison, so why not die a grand death with a grand finish. Kill off the beloved of the Creator and his favorite son who refused to join Satan's rebellion. That is what Satan thought he was doing, until God mentioned that, "Oh, BTW, when I said 'In that very day you shall die," I didn't mean a 24-hour day? Is that what you thought? Oh, sorry. I meant my 1000-year long day."

So in the end, Christ and Satan get divorced and he gets to marry his new love, lots of mankind. And everybody lives happily ever after without Satan around.

Why did Christ have to die? He had to die as a perfect, faithful, human so he could save mankind. Many of whom (1,440,000) he will actually marry; his new wife replacing his old wife, Satan.

33

Why did Jesus have to die?

by Crazyguy in

let's think about this for a bit.

adam was tempted and sinned by eating of the fruit.

he missed out on immortality by being denied the tree of life.

LorenzoSmithXVII

So, this religion is accusing whoever denies that Jesus is the Savior of all humans. However, Jesus wrote nothing for us, and his followers gave us a contradictory set of books,

Actually, all those contradictions have been rectified. Like Jesus being in the grave three days and three nights, ending Saturday night. Clearly he died on a Thursday. No problem, per the bible he died on Thursday, Nisan 20th. So many "contradictions" in the gospels are due to incompetent misreading and interpretation most of the time. There are no contradictions. But if you have a favorite one you are still in doubt about, please let me know.

16

A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany

by Saintbertholdt in

what percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.

what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?

(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).

LorenzoSmithXVII

pg 72 - the purple triangles were assigned 1937/8
The Purple Triangle designated the following prisoner groups:
- Bible Students
- Seventh Day Adventists
- Baptists
- pacifists
- possibly New Apostolic community

This is quite fascinating. I didn't really know the numbers. But in general, the purple triangle seems to have represented JWs. In the movie, "Holocaust," for instance, when what the various patches meant, it mentions the purple triangle referred to "Jehovah's Witnesses." That segment can be seen in a video presentation of "Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses" below.

The fulfillment of the "disgusting thing in a holy place" requires fulfillment in connection with the "holy ones" and the "holy ones" have two branches, the "greater number" and the "lesser number," The "greater number" is a reference to the Jews, the "lesser number" is a reference to Jehovah's Witnesses. The focus of the Nazis on Jews and JWs, thus is not incidental.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnTy8_EhE0Y

21

How do you know Satan didn't inspire the Bible?

by Coded Logic in

jws believe that satan knows things about the natural world (like how it was formed).. they also believe that satan can influence events (even fulfill prophecies).. the bible is the source of great confusion and the vast majority of christians (2.2 billion people) believe it but do not have "accurate knowledgetm".. from the jw point of view, wouldn't it be more likely that satan inspired the bible than an all loving god?.

LorenzoSmithXVII

James Mixonan hour agoIt would only make sense, He is the ruler of the world. He hoodwink Adam
and Eve right from the start. I must say Satan is a very smart cookie.

Satan was a murderous bitch, actually. The thought of killing men was like the ultimate hit of crack. It was thrilling and addictive.

But yes, Satan, in particular is very, very smart. That's why her Mother Goddess imagery often relates to knowledge and esoteric understanding. Often the secret knowledge is represented as milk coming from her breast. So yes, Satan offers knowledge, but it is often false and misleading.

21

How do you know Satan didn't inspire the Bible?

by Coded Logic in

jws believe that satan knows things about the natural world (like how it was formed).. they also believe that satan can influence events (even fulfill prophecies).. the bible is the source of great confusion and the vast majority of christians (2.2 billion people) believe it but do not have "accurate knowledgetm".. from the jw point of view, wouldn't it be more likely that satan inspired the bible than an all loving god?.

LorenzoSmithXVII

zebulon19 minutes agoJust my 2 cents,
God tells the first woman not to eat from the tree of knowledge.
A serpent tells the woman if you eat from it you will not die.
What type of person does not want another person to have knowledge?
If you have everlasting life, wasnt the serpent telling the truth?

Satan lied by saying that God knew they would not die. So that was a lie. They did die.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Viviane5 hours agoGod didn't watch his child die forever from cancer or a tumor or die from strangulation on it's umbilical cord during childbirth. God didn't watch his family all die from ebola or the plague or be captured, raped and murdered by an invading army.
YouYour God is a dick.

I can see where you're coming from Viv. But the last chapter is going to one of peace and happiness and eternal life for people. Those people will understand the ultimate love God has for mankind.

But yes, there are many horrors that God permits. But these are all temporary.

The bottom line about suffering is this. If you had a choice to live forever but it required for you to be born to a painful life or a short life, would you be willing to undergo the temporary pain and suffering in order to have eternal life later?

That is what is going on here? You have to let go of our soul, meaning comforts in this life, in order to gain it back. If you try to fulfill your soul in this life at the expense of obedience to God, then you will lose your soul.

In order to have a resurrection later on, you have to be born. So if some humans born will end up with childhood cancer or some other serious illness due to the imperfection of mankind, it still is a better option than not having been born at all. The important thing is life after Judgment Day, not this life.

Satan thinks God is a "dick" too since God tricked Satan into killing Adam. Satan thought when God said, "In that VERY DAY you will die" meant a 24-hour day. So Satan had a slam-dunk in his own mind if God was forced to kill Adam the very day he ate the fruit. There would be no chance for any of Adam's children to be born. It meant essentially killing billions of humans in one fell swoop! To Satan, who was quite unhappy, that was something worth dying for. God's failed experiment at trying to make a creature that was half angel and half animal essentially. But then God turned the tables on Satan and told him he didn't mean a 24-hour day but a 1000-year long day. So Satan ultimately only gets to kill the wicked.

I can understand why some people might get angry with God sometimes, many people do. But I look at the end chapter, the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal was to save the people Satan had murdered. If that took some pain sometimes, some horror, some short lives, then that's part of the package. But in the end, all those days of pain and hurt and suffering will be a thing of the past and will be forgotten. Good times will replace the bad times.

God knows what he is doing. You can't just focus on the negatives. You have to see the big picture.

Appreciate your life. Have empathy for those who have less.

21

How do you know Satan didn't inspire the Bible?

by Coded Logic in

jws believe that satan knows things about the natural world (like how it was formed).. they also believe that satan can influence events (even fulfill prophecies).. the bible is the source of great confusion and the vast majority of christians (2.2 billion people) believe it but do not have "accurate knowledgetm".. from the jw point of view, wouldn't it be more likely that satan inspired the bible than an all loving god?.

LorenzoSmithXVII

James Mixon9 minutes agoIt would only make sense, He is the ruler of the world. He hoodwink Adam
and Eve right from the start. I must say Satan is a very smart cookie.

Actually, man was created to kill Satan. In heaven, there are really just concepts and ideas. You can't steal anything or kill anybody up in heaven. It's basically talk. So in order for God to make Satan put his money where his mouth was, he created the physical universe and creatures with free moral agency, who would be given laws to obey and the penalty of death if they sinned. this was an opportunity for Satan to be the manslayer he always was. God gave him the opportunity to kill billions of men. That was something so much of a high to Satan that it was worth dying for.

He had a golden chance because of God's pronouncement, which said specifically, "IN THE VERY DAY you eat of it, you will die." Now that seemed like God was saying the punishment would be speedy. If Adam died the very day he ate from the fruit then he would die with all of his billions of potential offspring. They would be all killed. Satan would have a big victory!

Adam was likely around 30 years of age when Eve was created, prompting him to say, "At last, bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." Adam was a typical black man, beautiful in form, not that bright. Eve was stunningly beautiful, white, of course. So Adam was overcome with delight with this new wife. When she ate of the fruit, he couldn't deal with that and so actually preferred to die with her. That's not new. Lots of lover's think they would rather die than live without the person they love. Adam, of course, knew what he was doing. Satan was delighted and glad to die as well, having killed off billions of persons that God and Christ already loved.

But then God flipped the script on Satan. He basically said: "Oh, you thought I meant a 24-hour day? Oh no, I meant a 1000-year day!" It meant that Satan would essentially kill few more than who Jehovah was going to have to kill anyway. The righteous ones and the innocent ones would be saved via the ransom sacrifice. So Satan's murderous "high" was short lived.

Bottom line is, the Edenic scenario was a trap set up to destroy Satan and it worked. Satan took the bait and now he is going to end up dead throughout eternity. In the meantime, the heavens will be restored to a peaceful and beautiful place without Satan's constant nagging and resisting.

Because it was through mankind that Satan was able to be excised from the universe, some of them were given great glory, to become angels, more glorious than any of their angelic brothers. Those new spiritual beings would be married to Christ, who is Michael the archangel. So Satan is insulted again. Impressed with her own beauty corrupted her, now someone far more glorious and beautiful would be in heaven.

All Satan has left is to kill as many humans as he possibly can. That is his legacy. But it is not all that grand because all the favorites of God and Christ from mankind were saved from Satan's murderous attempt.

21

How do you know Satan didn't inspire the Bible?

by Coded Logic in

jws believe that satan knows things about the natural world (like how it was formed).. they also believe that satan can influence events (even fulfill prophecies).. the bible is the source of great confusion and the vast majority of christians (2.2 billion people) believe it but do not have "accurate knowledgetm".. from the jw point of view, wouldn't it be more likely that satan inspired the bible than an all loving god?.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Satan inspires his own belief systems and they are opposed to the Bible. It's amazing how Satan does inspire pagan concepts. Let me give you an example.

Satan is totally pissed at God for what God did, which was pulled the rug from under Satan. Ultimately, it was going to ge involved getting rid of Satan without all those legal and academic and philosophical and moral arguments that could literally take centures. Like what if God hadn't made Satan so beautiful, was that a predisposition to corruption? That's a reasonable question. This is Satan's attempt to ultimately blame God for everything and take little personal responsibility.

So what God did was basically said, "I'm not putting up with this" and so to get rid of Satan and not hear his mouth, I'm just going to KILL EVERYBODY! I'm going to kill all my sons. I'm going to put them all through the fire and those who are not willing to die for ME, I will let remain dead. But for those sons who pass the test, I will bring them back.

That's the ultimate divine snub. Satan is like a tenant who wants to take his landlord to court to get a lot of things fixed in the apartment. But the apartment is on a month-to-month lease. So the court date to discuss what needs to be done is the day after Satan's eviction. God evicted Satan from the universe, but so as not to have to explain anything or discuss anything, which is what Satan was desperate to do, he just killed everybody, including his only-begotten beloved son, Jesus Christ who is Michael the archangel. Satan would be the first to defend that divine as the creator, which is to decide how long any creature was to live. Of course, "death" is only a bad or worse thing in relation to whether you come back or not. If you die and don't come back, then its a huge deal. But if you come back, how bad was it?

So Satan thought probably that was hypocritical and a cop-out, so he inspired in paganism the concept of putting your children through the fire, only it involved literally placing your children into a fire and burning them up as part of a religious ritual. In so doing he mocks God for doing the same thing, which is having all his sons, the angels in heaven, pass through the fire.

It might seem goush and horrid to think God was willing to kill off everybody to punish a few, sort of like the global flood, actually, where many animals died. But in this case, all the angels who were loyal to God readily volunteered! Why wouldn't they? They would have a temporary death to get rid of Satan. That's a high price to pay, but worth it, right?

Anyway, that is an example of what Satan inspires. So we know what Satan inspires and it is opposed to the Bible.

7

Who resurrected Jesus from death?

by James Mixon in

a friend received this email from his jw brother.

they have not been close since.

his brother became a jw.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Village Idiot2 hours agoGod the father resurrected him as a courtesy.
Jesus also had an immortal soul so he really did not die.
Jesus was also in Sheol/Hades (The underworld according to a correct understanding of the word.) and was twiddling his fingers impatiently awaiting the resurrection.

Per JW doctrine, Jesus was Michael the archangel and was mortal. All the angels were created as mortals, including Jesus Christ. Free moral agency inherently requires mortality; the choice to live or die, to obey or not obey. Those who make the right choice are granted immortality. Angels are mortan. Satan and the demons will be killed.

7

Who resurrected Jesus from death?

by James Mixon in

a friend received this email from his jw brother.

they have not been close since.

his brother became a jw.

LorenzoSmithXVII

sloppyjoe225 minutes agoIf I were to promote the trinity, my reply to the JW would be that while Jesus was on the earth he was not at and did not have the same level or power that he had prior to coming to earth. Hebrews 2:9 said he was made lower than the angels while he was on earth. Now that he is in heaven, is he still lower than the angels? No, so obviously he obtained a much higher level once he became a spirit in heaven. King of kings in Revelation, and all authority in heaven and earth had been given him. IF I was going to waste my time debating with someone.

Actually, perhaps I should have been more specific. Christ died as a human but was raised up as an angel. So there is no conflict for JWs with your general statement. JWs do not believe in the trinity doctrine, which seemingly would contradict that Jesus, as part of the trinity, didn't actually die in the usual sense.