Posts by factfinder

3

Free Will?

by MrFreeze in

as jw's we are taught that the reason we have free will is to decide whether or not we want to serve god.

we are all very aware of the jw position on children of non-believers.

they will be destroyed at armageddon, just like the children at sodom and gomorrah and back in noah's day.

factfinder

Is it free will if our choices are:

serve me and get everlasting life (bribary?)

don't serve me and I destroy you (coersion?)

23

Holiday field circus: From both sides of the door

by WTWizard in

here is what it is like to those on the inside of the door:.

the children got up about an hour earlier than normal.

obviously, they are anxious to start opening up the presents under the tree (and most children are not going to want to sleep in on christmas morning).

Satan gets off scot free with his rebellion !!

by smiddy in

think about it..... eve was supposedly deceived by satan,and adam, afraid of losing his partner went along with her folly.the outcome??.

adam & eve were told they would die in the" day" of their eating of the forbidden fruit.. that didn`t happen,they both lived hundreds of years after this event,fathering and mothering sons & daughters.

did god lie or was he just inadequate in articulating his judgement.. god said in the day you eat of it`s fruit you will surely die.

factfinder

@Ding- Rev.20:10 is symbolic. Notice that it mentions that the beast and false prophet were also thrown into that lake of burning sulfer. they are symbolic. So it is not at all literal. Of course we know in the future Jesus is supposed to destroy satan and his demons. Of course that's supposed to be after armageddon. Oh well, guess that's never going to happen!

5

Satan gets off scot free with his rebellion !!

by smiddy in

think about it..... eve was supposedly deceived by satan,and adam, afraid of losing his partner went along with her folly.the outcome??.

adam & eve were told they would die in the" day" of their eating of the forbidden fruit.. that didn`t happen,they both lived hundreds of years after this event,fathering and mothering sons & daughters.

did god lie or was he just inadequate in articulating his judgement.. god said in the day you eat of it`s fruit you will surely die.

factfinder

Yes- it is very unfair. Humans suffer and die. Satan lives on and rules the earth!

23

Holiday field circus: From both sides of the door

by WTWizard in

here is what it is like to those on the inside of the door:.

the children got up about an hour earlier than normal.

obviously, they are anxious to start opening up the presents under the tree (and most children are not going to want to sleep in on christmas morning).

factfinder

@Farkel- that must have really sucked for you having to go out in FS on Christmas, seeing other kids get presents and having fun and you got nothing. I read and was told witness kids get gifts year round and agree with you- it is bs! And witnesses I knew did not wrap any gifts they did give just in case someone might think they are giving birthday presents.

WTWizard- I never thought of going on in FS on christmas the way you describe it. I did not think we were interupting the kids getting their presents. I was unaware of the disruption it caused. Back then I thought it was , as we were told, a great day to find people home and they'd be in a happy mood and want to talk about Jesus! We should not have bothered people on Christmas- you are right. Who wants to have strangers knocking on their door when they are busy with their family, kids, friends etc?

No wonder so many people hate the witnesses. Witnesses show no consideration and bring it on themselves. True- I thought I was doing the right thing- but I was unaware of how it disrupted the children's getting their gifts and how it could ruin their day. I wish I could go back in time to 1976 and undo my becoming a witness.

19

I found a letter that we got from Bethel when we left, it clearly says publishing plant operations.

by life is to short in

i was going through some boxes the other day and found the letter we received to use for reference's in looking for work after bethel.. we left bethel in 1994 a long time ago now it seems.

the letter was written by max larson.

i have not seen this letter for years and reading it this time it struck me how cold it really was.

factfinder

Moshe-I never wanted another religion after I left Judaism. I'd say that besides the paradise hope it was the society's huge publishing operation that fascinated me and kept me interested and active as a witness! They are a major printing organization whose product happens to be Bibles and bible-based literature. When I became a jw and my family disowned me I tried explaining to them that I was not joining another religion. Bethel was a fantastic, huge printing operation! So it was no shock at all to me how "unreligious" Bethel was! I was glad! I did not want a religion and for most of my time in"the truth" I did not think of it as being in a religion. As years when on and Bethel started downsizing/consolidating the printing operations I became less and less interested in meetings and being a witness as it began to appear more and more religious-exactly what I did not want.

I did not apply for bethel service as the bethel meeting at the 1978 IC made it very clear to me what life there would be like. But I loved visiting and seeing what was new over the years in the printery. Aside from foolishly believing it was "God's Organization" I knew clearly that bethel was a publishing company and was interested in it for that very reason.

I do feel bad however for bethelites who served there for so many years and then were asked to leave without any kind of assistance being offered to them directly by the society. But at that 1978 bethel meeting the speaker made it clear you recieve no salary or pension and you are there as a volunteer. You get nothing when you leave other than your personal belongings. And yes, I was told about the electicity metre they put in your room to measure the cost of the electricity you use for your air conditioner and that you are responsible to repay the society for that cost. It is rediculous they make bethelites pay for air conditioning.

34

When was the last 7-Day Convention held?

by VM44 in

does anyone know when the watchtower held the last 7-day convention?.

these conventions lasted from 9am to 9pm every day for a whole week, except perhaps for sunday.. they were mostly held in open-air stadiums and people had to endure the burning heat during the day, and the cold at night.. it took endurance to sit throughout the whole thing.. making people attend those things really was an expression of love from the watchtower!

did the watchtower drop right away to the 3-day program, or were 5 day conventions held for awhile?.

factfinder

Room215- I agree. they could not get the witnesses to attend a 7 or 8 day convention again. Or even 5. I would not be surprised in the 3 day conventions go to 2 and a half and then just 2 days.

34

When was the last 7-Day Convention held?

by VM44 in

does anyone know when the watchtower held the last 7-day convention?.

these conventions lasted from 9am to 9pm every day for a whole week, except perhaps for sunday.. they were mostly held in open-air stadiums and people had to endure the burning heat during the day, and the cold at night.. it took endurance to sit throughout the whole thing.. making people attend those things really was an expression of love from the watchtower!

did the watchtower drop right away to the 3-day program, or were 5 day conventions held for awhile?.

factfinder

My first district assembly was in 1977-4 days. (I did not go in 1976 but it was 4 days).

1978 was the Victorious Faith International Convention-5 days

!979 forward they were called District Conventions-4 days.

In the late 80's they became 3 1/2 days- we went out in FS on Thursday mornings or afternoons, later they went to 3 days.

I agree they will eventually just be Saturday and Sunday.

Seems like 1969 was the last 7 day convention. I'm glad conventions were not that long when I went! How did anyone get anything out of it ( aside from new releases)?

13

What could WT do if active Dubs celebrated Hanukkah ?

by wobble in

happy hanukkah to anybody celebrating !!!.

if jesus and the apostles and later jewish christians celebrated hanukkah, what grounds could the wt have for objecting if active jw's today did likewise ?

it would not be a returning to the things of the mosaic law as hanukkah was not part of that, rather it would be a returning to part of first century christian practice.. sd7 or someone could have fun composing the article telling dubs exactly why they cannot celebrate this rather lovely remembrance, as they cannot christmas, in the 21st.

factfinder

When I began studying with the witnesses I was told I could no longer celebrate Hanukkah because it is part of the Jewish religion. I would guess therefore that the society would label any witnesses who would celebrate Hanukkah as "apostates" and treat them the same as if they celebrated Christmas or Easter.

14

Veterans Stadium

by Little Mac in

i am brand new to this forum but have spent hours over the last year on here reading and laughing a lot.

laughter is the best medicine.

i'd like to cast out a topic here- i'd love to hear what some of your thoughts were if any of you were faithful attendees at the sweltering veterans stadium assemblies over the years.

factfinder

@WingCommander- I think it is the 1960's you were remembering as 6-7 day conventions! The ones in the 80's started as 4 days, then went to 3 and 1/2 days.