Posts by Alfred

35

Will only "incorrigibly wicked" people be destroyed at Armageddon?

by poor places in

jw
friends

in a recent talk that i heard, a brother tried to comfort those whose family members have left jehovah's witnesses.

he did so by saying that only "incorrigibly wicked" people will be destroyed at armageddon.

i found his line of reasoning refreshing, especially in comparison with the usual fear-mongering in wt publications.

Alfred

Poor Places...

It would be interesting to see what was actually on the outline he used... I'm willing to bet that he added the word "only" to the sentence that reads: "Incorrigibly wicked people will destoyed at Armageddon"...

A few years ago, during field circus, I heard an elder telling a "study" (or should I say an "interested one"?) that even if a person gets visited just once by a JW and doesn't accept what that JW says, he/she will die at Armageddon. Just last year, I reminded him of that and he could not recall ever saying that. He then starts to lean on Proverbs 4:18 (as a lot of JWs do when they're caught contradicting themselves) and goes on to say that the Society occasionally makes mistakes and no one really knows for sure who will die at Armageddon except Jehovah.

I then show him a list of WT references very similar to ones listed by LeavingWT and Diamondiiz above... As expected, he really did not want to read what the WT has put in their own publications (to avoid looking like a fool, I'm assuming) and then told me that I should really stop nit-picking and simply preach the good news just as Jesus mandated... I than asked him: "how can I preach the good news if I keep getting contradicting information about it?"

I'll spare you the back-and-forth we got into afterwards, but there was no way to get him to wake up... as usual, he was more interested in his wity comebacks than actually examining the evidence before him...

But just so you're clear... the WT's official stand is that anyone who has heard or read the "good news" by so much as a tract left by a JW child and has not taken steps towards becoming a JW will be destoyed at Armageddon...

82

What really ended the book study in private homes?

by Alfred in

it's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.

although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...

but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?

Alfred

Looks like this thread has run its course… So this is probably a good time to list your comments in order of most-to-least mentioned…

In summary, posters on this thread felt that the Book Study in private homes was discontinued …

To isolate JWs and weaken relationship, thereby reducing independent thinking and apostasy = 11
Because of “slip-and-fall” liability concerns = 6
Because of the requirement at some locations to obtain special use permits = 4
To retain membership by lessening the burden of attending frequent meetings = 4
To reduce the possibility of child molestation and abuse = 3
To reduce the possibility of sexual abuse in general = 3
Because US-based JWs started to complain about high gasoline prices = 3
To make overall KH attendance look better = 3
Because Book Study attendance was usually very low anyway= 3
To strengthen the family unit since NEW recruits would come from within families = 2
Because it wasn’t generating enough revenue from contributions = 2
Because it was becoming more difficult to get JWs to offer their homes = 1
To get one step closer towards eliminating field service = 1
Because Jehovah told the Governing Body to end it = 1

Wow! Very interesting (and long) list of reasons… I’m really glad I asked the question since some of the reasons given in this thread didn’t even occur to me when I listed the choices in my opening post… Although some of the reasons listed may not be valid ones, this thread certainly sheds a lot of light on why the GB made this drastic decision.

Thanks everyone for your sharing your perspective!

Alfred

42

Is the "Watchtower Study" = Question and answer a form of brainwashing??

by Witness 007 in

on sundays study we were always told to keep answers brief and from the paragraph as some brothers would add "other meterial" to their comments.

the "correct" answer is right there in the paragraph.

read question --------find answer in paragraph------underline/highlight------read related {not] scripture-----raise hand---give answer from paragraph as though it's your own thought.

Alfred

Teary... what about persistent cohersion and mental manipulation? Are these "junk sciences" as well?

By the way, the American Psychological Association has determined that people who refer to themselves in the third person are arrogant, self-absorbed and insecure... do you know anyone who refers to themselves in the third person? just asking...

82

What really ended the book study in private homes?

by Alfred in

it's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.

although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...

but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?

Alfred

fokyc... I've read that thread... a very good one!... not sure it covered all the reasons though...

btw... thanks again for your computer help a couple of weeks ago... very much appreciated...

82

What really ended the book study in private homes?

by Alfred in

it's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.

although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...

but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?

Alfred

It's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some JWs are still scratching their heads over it. Although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among JWs as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of JWs, to lessen the burden of poor JWs who had no money for gas, etc.)... But as we all know, decisions like these from the GB invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, I'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet...

So I have to ask... What do you believe really ended the book study in private homes? (please select one)

a) The WT was afraid that more apostates were stirring up doubts during book study "after-parties"
b) Some municipalities were starting to require "Special Use" permits for homes being used as houses of worship (hence the end of the Daily Text reading before field circus)
c) To avoid possible injury litigation and insurance liability if a JW or "interested one" slips and falls in the private home used for worship
d) All of the above
e) None of the above (please explain)

I'm very interested in knowing what you believe to be the real reason behind this decsion...

Thanks!

Alfred

64

Confused...

by raxxxx in

.

hiya and... i do not really know where to begin... currently a jw... slightly starting to fade... got a girlfriend baptised... i am baptised also... my head is a mess... i do not know what to believe anymore... never really fully trusted elders as it comes to 'leading the flock'... got burned a few times with their ... decisions etc.

read a few articles in here about their alleged false beliefs... do not really know what to do... wondered if any of you felt like that at any point... when something that you trusted and followed most of your life... does not seem to be what you thought it was... .

Alfred

Raxxxx... what leaving wt said...

take it slow and keep your mouth shut until you are comfortable that you have researched enough to make an informed decision... it won't be easy discovering all the lies and deception but you will learn to cope with it and come out a better person on the other end... but again, take it slow... good luck....

62

How the WTS hides its cash.....you may find this interesting

by God_Delusion in

let me explain a little about what i do each day...... i work for a company that arranges trusts in the cook islands, turks & caicos, panama, etc.

i know that blondie is against what i am about to say, but i do not just believe that the wts have a variety of trusts in various jurisdictions around the world......i am absolutely positive they do.. .

i personally look after 14 trusts.

Alfred

A missionary/CO mentioned in James Penton's "Apocalypse Delayed" and in Ray's COC told me how the big boys in Brooklyn would have him make frequent trips between NY and Barcelona (or Madrid?) in the late 70's and he would have to hand carry large amounts of cash (mostly from assembly contributions) and hand these over to someone in a Bethel accounting office... this was illegal and the Bethel brass knew it... but they justified it as "theocratic warfare" since there was some light persecution of JWs in Spain during that time...

33

Missionaries in Tiawan asked to give salaries back to bethel...one resigned!!

by Witness 007 in

a friend from australia's first "ministerial training school" was excited to go to asia as a missionary....only to return in disgrace!!!

the government lets them stay if they become "english teachers" and except a part-time job for a salary {which is generous}.

bethel told him that the money he earns on the side while a missionary belongs to them!!

Alfred

wha happened?...

Their basis is that missionaries are supposed to to take a vow of poverty... by taking a part-time job and keeping the money, they demonstrate greed and bring reproach on Jehovah's name. So the WT lovingly helps these missionaries by taking their salaries and giving them a monthly stipend imnstead... in this way, they give a fine witness and contribute to the worldwide life-saving work...

(sorry... I was about to write some more but I'm making myself sick with this BS...)

156

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

Alfred

I'm sure that any pedofile elders in Australia have already been identified by the WT and asked to step down immediately or leave the country. The WT lawyers are always one step ahead... as usual, the WT will come out of this smelling like a rose and claiming that Jehovah has once again led them to victory...

41

Was it the doctrine or the control that woke you up?

by Evidently Apostate in

even though i knew some of the doctrines were so convoluted they couldnt be genuine, every prophecy mentioned in the bible was simplistic and direct i still felt it was the best place to raise a family.

i felt like i could ignore the hypocrisy, manipulative and fake personalities and still have true friends and unbreakable family bonds.

even though my concience would bother me i would always try to forgive.

Alfred

Doctrine and chronology... especially after reading Gentile Times Reconsidered (C.O. Jonsson)...

The WT knows that their chronology is seriously flawed yet they make no attempt to come clean... that level of dishonesty is what led to my exit...