Why would anyone spend any time or resources conducting a scientific study on non-believing/still-in JW behavior patterns? I think the time and money would be better spent finding a cure for cancer... just saying....
Posts by Alfred
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39How long can one continue as an unbelieving JW?
by mankkeli inis it really possible to continue as a jw but not believing in it anymore.
for how long can one keep up with this pace of life?.
i will appreciate it if any scientific study had been done on this and what has the result showed?..
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11
Both the October 1 & November 1 Watchtowers avoid discussing the 2,520 years!!!
by Alfred indid anyone else notice this?.
the "when was jerusalem destroyed?
" articles in the october 2011 and november 2011 public edition watchtowers were supposed to explain why it was so important to know when jerusalem was destroyed... but none of the two articles makes any mention about how the wt arrived at the 2,520 year calculation (to get to 1914)... did they think no one would notice???
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Alfred
Sab, Sir82 and Mad... so true... and to add to your comments... it's interesting that the October 15, 2011 Study Edition Watchtower contained an article advising JWs that they will no longerrespond to questions on things that JWs can find on their own in the Society's publications... (there was an excellent thread on this recently)... so you're right... these articles exist solely for the purpose of stopping all the questions on chronology (especially the ones that severely diminish the WT's credibility)...
Lost Generation... you're right... they're just a bunch of copycats... but they are so quick to take credit for this 360 X 7 calculation... For example, in their DVD Faith In Action -Part I (2010), Anthony Morris makes the following completely FALSE statement: "The fact that they (the Bible Students) were able to pinpoint that year is just phenomenal"... when he said that, I noticed he was really struggling to keep a straight face...
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11
Both the October 1 & November 1 Watchtowers avoid discussing the 2,520 years!!!
by Alfred indid anyone else notice this?.
the "when was jerusalem destroyed?
" articles in the october 2011 and november 2011 public edition watchtowers were supposed to explain why it was so important to know when jerusalem was destroyed... but none of the two articles makes any mention about how the wt arrived at the 2,520 year calculation (to get to 1914)... did they think no one would notice???
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Alfred
Jeffro... great stuff on your blog! thanks!
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36
New KH and lies to the council!
by punkofnice injust before i stepped off being an elder the local congo were buying a piece of land with a building on it to convert (no pun intended), into a kh.. .
one of the things as i understand it was that they were going to have a flat for the co in situ but report to the local authorities that it ws just a janitors flat.
apparently if the council knew it was for the co it would be unacceptable for some reason.
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Alfred
I would report it just to see how this would play out in court (if it got that far)...
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11
Both the October 1 & November 1 Watchtowers avoid discussing the 2,520 years!!!
by Alfred indid anyone else notice this?.
the "when was jerusalem destroyed?
" articles in the october 2011 and november 2011 public edition watchtowers were supposed to explain why it was so important to know when jerusalem was destroyed... but none of the two articles makes any mention about how the wt arrived at the 2,520 year calculation (to get to 1914)... did they think no one would notice???
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Alfred
Did anyone else notice this?
The "When was Jerusalem Destroyed?" articles in the October 2011 and November 2011 Public Edition Watchtowers were supposed to explain why it was so important to know when Jerusalem was destroyed... But none of the two articles makes any mention about how the WT arrived at the 2,520 year calculation (to get to 1914)... Did they think no one would notice??? I mean really... that's practically the other half of their 607-1914 doctrine and they choose to sweep it under the rug?
Maybe they're just too embarrassed to mention the following...
In 1823, John Aquila Brown played with the idea that a "time" (in Daniel 4) could possibly be the same as a "prophetic year" equalling 360 days and then further assumed that "7 times" could actually be 7 prophetic years (equalling a total of 2,520 days). But, inexplicably, he also assumed that he could simply multiply these 2,520 days by ordinary years of 365 days each.... huh?
In 1844, Edward B Elliott agreed with these ridiculous assumptions and further assumed that these 2,520 years (of 365 days each) are actually the "appointed times of the nations" mentioned in Luke 21:24 and would span from 606 BCE to 1914.
In 1849, Robert Seeley also agreed with these ridiculous assumptions and decided to jump on the "dooms-day" band-wagon as well.
In 1875, Adventist Nelson Barbour became convinced of this as well and even had discussions with Charles Taze Russell about this "intriguing" chronology on a number of occasions. In doing so, Both Barbour and Russell completely ignored Acts 1:7...
In 1876, having been convinced by Nelson Barbour, Russell decides to put his own "twist" on things and drags the Great Pyramid of Egypt into this already flawed chronology, claiming that a certain internal passageway was 1,914 "pyramid inches" long... wtf?
When 1914 failed to produce Armageddon, the Adventists and all other "dooms-dayers" of that time dropped the subject (of the 7 times of the Gentiles), but Russell simply couldn't face embarrassment and began making up excuses from thin air...
I believe that's the gyst of it... I'm working off memory here, so if I missed something, please do correct me... the floor is yours...
Thanks
Alfred
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35
Will only "incorrigibly wicked" people be destroyed at Armageddon?
by poor places inin a recent talk that i heard, a brother tried to comfort those whose family members have left jehovah's witnesses.
he did so by saying that only "incorrigibly wicked" people will be destroyed at armageddon.
i found his line of reasoning refreshing, especially in comparison with the usual fear-mongering in wt publications.
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Alfred
Poor Places...
It would be interesting to see what was actually on the outline he used... I'm willing to bet that he added the word "only" to the sentence that reads: "Incorrigibly wicked people will destoyed at Armageddon"...
A few years ago, during field circus, I heard an elder telling a "study" (or should I say an "interested one"?) that even if a person gets visited just once by a JW and doesn't accept what that JW says, he/she will die at Armageddon. Just last year, I reminded him of that and he could not recall ever saying that. He then starts to lean on Proverbs 4:18 (as a lot of JWs do when they're caught contradicting themselves) and goes on to say that the Society occasionally makes mistakes and no one really knows for sure who will die at Armageddon except Jehovah.
I then show him a list of WT references very similar to ones listed by LeavingWT and Diamondiiz above... As expected, he really did not want to read what the WT has put in their own publications (to avoid looking like a fool, I'm assuming) and then told me that I should really stop nit-picking and simply preach the good news just as Jesus mandated... I than asked him: "how can I preach the good news if I keep getting contradicting information about it?"
I'll spare you the back-and-forth we got into afterwards, but there was no way to get him to wake up... as usual, he was more interested in his wity comebacks than actually examining the evidence before him...
But just so you're clear... the WT's official stand is that anyone who has heard or read the "good news" by so much as a tract left by a JW child and has not taken steps towards becoming a JW will be destoyed at Armageddon...
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82
What really ended the book study in private homes?
by Alfred init's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.
although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...
but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?
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Alfred
Looks like this thread has run its course… So this is probably a good time to list your comments in order of most-to-least mentioned…
In summary, posters on this thread felt that the Book Study in private homes was discontinued …
- To isolate JWs and weaken relationship, thereby reducing independent thinking and apostasy = 11
- Because of “slip-and-fall” liability concerns = 6
- Because of the requirement at some locations to obtain special use permits = 4
- To retain membership by lessening the burden of attending frequent meetings = 4
- To reduce the possibility of child molestation and abuse = 3
- To reduce the possibility of sexual abuse in general = 3
- Because US-based JWs started to complain about high gasoline prices = 3
- To make overall KH attendance look better = 3
- Because Book Study attendance was usually very low anyway= 3
- To strengthen the family unit since NEW recruits would come from within families = 2
- Because it wasn’t generating enough revenue from contributions = 2
- Because it was becoming more difficult to get JWs to offer their homes = 1
- To get one step closer towards eliminating field service = 1
- Because Jehovah told the Governing Body to end it = 1
Wow! Very interesting (and long) list of reasons… I’m really glad I asked the question since some of the reasons given in this thread didn’t even occur to me when I listed the choices in my opening post… Although some of the reasons listed may not be valid ones, this thread certainly sheds a lot of light on why the GB made this drastic decision.
Thanks everyone for your sharing your perspective!
Alfred
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42
Is the "Watchtower Study" = Question and answer a form of brainwashing??
by Witness 007 inon sundays study we were always told to keep answers brief and from the paragraph as some brothers would add "other meterial" to their comments.
the "correct" answer is right there in the paragraph.
read question --------find answer in paragraph------underline/highlight------read related {not] scripture-----raise hand---give answer from paragraph as though it's your own thought.
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Alfred
Teary... what about persistent cohersion and mental manipulation? Are these "junk sciences" as well?
By the way, the American Psychological Association has determined that people who refer to themselves in the third person are arrogant, self-absorbed and insecure... do you know anyone who refers to themselves in the third person? just asking...
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82
What really ended the book study in private homes?
by Alfred init's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.
although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...
but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?
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Alfred
fokyc... I've read that thread... a very good one!... not sure it covered all the reasons though...
btw... thanks again for your computer help a couple of weeks ago... very much appreciated...
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82
What really ended the book study in private homes?
by Alfred init's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.
although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...
but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?
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Alfred
It's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some JWs are still scratching their heads over it. Although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among JWs as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of JWs, to lessen the burden of poor JWs who had no money for gas, etc.)... But as we all know, decisions like these from the GB invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, I'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet...
So I have to ask... What do you believe really ended the book study in private homes? (please select one)
- a) The WT was afraid that more apostates were stirring up doubts during book study "after-parties"
- b) Some municipalities were starting to require "Special Use" permits for homes being used as houses of worship (hence the end of the Daily Text reading before field circus)
- c) To avoid possible injury litigation and insurance liability if a JW or "interested one" slips and falls in the private home used for worship
- d) All of the above
- e) None of the above (please explain)
I'm very interested in knowing what you believe to be the real reason behind this decsion...
Thanks!
Alfred