Cofty- I would be very interested to learn more.
Some heavy reading there mate, but you may be surprised. Now, Im also wondering, why didn't Freddy see the above? If I'm not too embarrassed by my final essay, I may post it FYI.
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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My Lecturer booby-trapped me - Patterns of Authority in Early Christian Communities
by fulltimestudent ini have a 2500 word essay due next tuesday, so i shall be invoiced until then.
and, i already have been turned upside down.. even though there are set topics for the main essay, it is possible to negotiate for an essay on a subject of personal interest.
i'd been thinking about the development of leadership in the early christian congregation, so i asked my lecturer, if i could write on that.. he asked me for a brief outline of what i was thinking, so i reviewed my early thoughts - that jesus primarily had left no clear instructions (because he was expecting divine intervention and the restoration of the kingdom), but he had trained his disciples in missionary work - which i interpreted to mean that jesus expected his own ministry to continue, to provide the judean people with continued guidance, modelled on what he (jesus) had done.. but as christianity developed (and the expectations of jesus remained unfulfilled) a different model developed and i wanted to explore the model we see developing in the nt (think pauline) and where that model came from and then transformed into the monarchial model with bishops.. .
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fulltimestudent
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My Lecturer booby-trapped me - Patterns of Authority in Early Christian Communities
by fulltimestudent ini have a 2500 word essay due next tuesday, so i shall be invoiced until then.
and, i already have been turned upside down.. even though there are set topics for the main essay, it is possible to negotiate for an essay on a subject of personal interest.
i'd been thinking about the development of leadership in the early christian congregation, so i asked my lecturer, if i could write on that.. he asked me for a brief outline of what i was thinking, so i reviewed my early thoughts - that jesus primarily had left no clear instructions (because he was expecting divine intervention and the restoration of the kingdom), but he had trained his disciples in missionary work - which i interpreted to mean that jesus expected his own ministry to continue, to provide the judean people with continued guidance, modelled on what he (jesus) had done.. but as christianity developed (and the expectations of jesus remained unfulfilled) a different model developed and i wanted to explore the model we see developing in the nt (think pauline) and where that model came from and then transformed into the monarchial model with bishops.. .
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fulltimestudent
Set readings for my essay (only read if it interests you).
Patterns of Authority In Early Christian Communities.
Compare and contrast the various patterns of authority in (a) the Pauline churches of the "congregational letters", (b) the "Pastoral Letters" (1 & 2 Timothy and Titus), (c) the Didache and (d) the seven genuine letters of Ignatius.
Feel free to suggest modifications. In the meantime here are places to start your reading:
Paul's "congregational letters":
J.D.G. Dunn, Jesus and the Spirit, London, 1975, sections 47-49.
- "The Responsible Congregation (1 Corinthians 14:26-40)", (in Charisma und Agape (1 Ko. 10-14), ed. L. De Lorenzi (Rome, 1983), 201-236, now reprinted in The Christ and the Spirit, vol. 2, Pneumatology (Grand Rapids, Eerdmans, 1998), 260-290: attached as a PDF)
B. Holmberg, Paul and Power: the structure of authority in the primitive church as reflected in the Pauline Epistles, Philadelphia, 1980
W.A. Meeks, The First Urban Christians, New Haven, 1983 (2nd edition 2003), chs. 3-5.
R.J. Banks, Paul's Idea of Community, Sydney, 1979 (revised edition, 1994),
M. MacDonald, The Pauline Churches: a socio-historical study of institutionalization in the Pauline and Deutero-Pauline writings, Cambridge, 1988The "Pastoral Letters"
M. MacDonald, above.
Commentaries on the three letters
M. Harding, "The Pastoral Epistles", in M. Harding & A. Nobbs, eds., All Things to All Cultures: Paul among Jews, Greeks, and Romans, Grand Rapids, 2013.
J.D.G. Dunn, Unity and Diversity in the New Testament, 3rd ed., 2006, sections 29-30.
D. Horrell, "Leadership Patterns and the Development of Ideology in Early Christianity", Sociology of Religion 58.4, 1997, 323-341.
The Didache:
See the bibliography in the main Unit Booklet, p. 59, esp.
J.A. Draper, “The Apostolic Fathers: the Didache”, Exp.T. 117.5, 2006, 177-181.
J.A. Draper, “Torah and Troublesome Apostles in the Didache Community”, Nov.T. 33.4, 1991, 347ff.,
A. Milavec, “Distinguishing True and False Prophets: The Protective Wisdom of the Didache,” J.E.C.S. 2, 1994, 117-136,
J.A. Draper, “Weber, Theissen, and ‘Wandering Charismatics’ in the Didache”, J.E.C.S. 6.4, 1998, 541-576Ignatius of Antioch:
See the bibliography in the main Unit Booklet, p. 55, esp.
P. Foster, “The Epistles of Ignatius of Antioch (Part 1)”, Exp.T. 117.12, 2006, 487-495, and “The Epistles of Ignatius of Antioch (Part 2)”, Exp.T. 118.1, 2006, 2-11.
H.O. Maier, “The Charismatic Authority of Ignatius of Antioch: a sociological analysis”, S.R. 18.2, 1989, 185-199
A. Pettersen, “The Laity – Bishop’s Pawn?”, S.J.Th. 44, 1991, 39-56,
H.O. Maier, The Social Setting of the Ministry as reflected in the writings of Hermas, Clement, and Ignatius, Ontario, Toronto, 1991,
A. Brent, “The Ignatian Epistles and the Threefold Ecclesiatical Order”, Journal of Religious History 17.1, 1992, 18-32I'm only half way through the readings (SO I've got to get down to some hard reading), and some of the books are out on loan at MU Library, so I've got to run around other libraries. So I'd better not even visit here for a week.
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My Lecturer booby-trapped me - Patterns of Authority in Early Christian Communities
by fulltimestudent ini have a 2500 word essay due next tuesday, so i shall be invoiced until then.
and, i already have been turned upside down.. even though there are set topics for the main essay, it is possible to negotiate for an essay on a subject of personal interest.
i'd been thinking about the development of leadership in the early christian congregation, so i asked my lecturer, if i could write on that.. he asked me for a brief outline of what i was thinking, so i reviewed my early thoughts - that jesus primarily had left no clear instructions (because he was expecting divine intervention and the restoration of the kingdom), but he had trained his disciples in missionary work - which i interpreted to mean that jesus expected his own ministry to continue, to provide the judean people with continued guidance, modelled on what he (jesus) had done.. but as christianity developed (and the expectations of jesus remained unfulfilled) a different model developed and i wanted to explore the model we see developing in the nt (think pauline) and where that model came from and then transformed into the monarchial model with bishops.. .
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fulltimestudent
I have a 2500 word essay due next Tuesday, so I shall be unvoiced until then. And, I already have been turned upside down.
Even though there are set topics for the main essay, it is possible to negotiate for an essay on a subject of personal interest. I'd been thinking about the development of leadership in the early Christian congregation, so I asked my lecturer, if I could write on that.
He asked me for a brief outline of what I was thinking, so I reviewed my early thoughts - that Jesus primarily had left no clear instructions (because he was expecting divine intervention and the restoration of the Kingdom), but he had trained his disciples in missionary work - which I interpreted to mean that Jesus expected his own ministry to continue, to provide the Judean people with continued guidance, modelled on what he (Jesus) had done.
But as Christianity developed (and the expectations of Jesus remained unfulfilled) a different model developed and I wanted to explore the model we see developing in the NT (think Pauline) and where that model came from and then transformed into the monarchial model with Bishops.
"Hmmm," was his reply - "that's OK, but I've got to be able to mark this, so it has to be based on existing scholarship, so I'll provide some readings for you to consider."
Which he did, and I've been reading (I'll post that separately for those who may be interested) and found what I'm calling 'his boobytrap.' Consensus scholarship essentially sees Jesus as a wandering, charismatic, (And, I've no problem with that. The Buddha ( Siddhārtha Gautama) is described in a similar way as a 'shramanic' - look it up!) and that his training for his disciples was based on that.
And the earliest form of Christianity is firmly based on that model. So what happened? I've got to say that the evidence is right there in the NT, as if we read carefully, we see the developing tensions between resident based Christians and the itinerants, who continued in the Jesus tradition. I've found that the rules for overseers (Timothy and Titus) were based on existing Roman traditions called 'household codes.'
So when I was asking him for permission, he (of course) knew all the argument in existing scholarship, and set a IED for my mind. I am impressed.
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Great action Piks- Getting the Jump on Your Lunch
by fulltimestudent in.
two frames together - in the first we see the leopard picking his mark and commencing his jump in the second frame.
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fulltimestudent
In another news item, an older tiger gets into a pen with two younger tigers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51I1ZQ5j4s
The interesting aspect of this incident is not the fight to the death between the older and younger tigers, that's just tiger behaviour. The interesting view of this fight is the perspective provided by the NT at 2 Peter 2:12, which, is usually interpreted as indicating that animal behaviour is governed by divinely implanted instinct.
From that perspective the Yahweh/Jesus creative team (Proverbs Ch 8 ) implanted into the tiger mind, the behaviour demonstrated in the video. Hencei can be argued, Yahweh/Jesus always intended Tigers to engage in territorial fights. Their teeth, claws and aggression was meant for killing.
As a sidepoint, the fight to the death was observed by school children, who were on a visit to the zoo. Some had to receive counselling. Is there where western thinking has led us - children have to be protected from the knowledge that life is about fighting for survival?
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was noah under the law of moses? huh?
by sowhatnow inim confused, a poster for the whole mamoth elephants and ark deal going on, with a gizillion pages, .
quoted genesis ch 7 about him bringing 7 clean animals.
and only two unclean, well i thought it wasnt till moses came along that all these requirements were done, so noah was under the law too?.
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fulltimestudent
You've fingered one of the problems in Genesis. That book is clearly a redacted work, the author(s) possibly attempting to synthesise one account out of various written or oral accounts.
In Ch. 7 the author(s) imagine Yahweh, who categorises animals as being either clean or unclean, instructing Noah to take seven clean and only two unclean. The author(s) cannot visualise a world where all animals are the same, and has to see them as being in one of the two categories.
That should make it clear to the reader that the document we know as Genesis was composed long after the Law of Moses.
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Are first world countries to blame for the bulk of third world squalor?
by tootired2care inthroughout several past threads various posters have emphatically made the point that countries like great britian, united states, france etc.
basically countries where white people exist, are to blame for the poverty in many other third world nations.
some have even went so far as to suggest that the first world is to blame for all third world conditions.. i often see excuses such as these for why a country refuses to provide clean water, some food and basic sanitation for its people:.
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fulltimestudent
Fulltimestudent:
There are multiple factors involved in poverty.
For example: Consider the role that a disciplined elite may play in a given society. As another poster has observed elites can play a negative role, and it may take time for an elite class to change from a negative role to a positive role. In English history, if we consider the change started with the Magna Carta, how long did it take to extend the rights of the elite to the wider population?
Hold that thought for a moment, and consider the impact of European Imperialism on the development of the elite groups in any given African society. The first stage of the impact is likely to have been the destruction of a wide section of the existing elite as they resisted the European invasion. The European invasion was different to other historical invasions, where the conquerors went on to form a new elite class. In the nineteenth century examples the European power sent out administrators, who typically served their time and went home along with any wealth they managed to accumulate, often large enough to give them some additional privileges in their home nation.
Although, we can imagine there would be some formation of a local, native elite it could not develop to maturity, but would remain subservient to the European conquerors.
Further factors that could be considered include the role of wealth accumulation. The whole goal of the European conquerors would be to strip the conquered area of accumulated wealth and apply it to their own home territories. Considering the poverty of the home working classes in the 19th century, a poverty so deep that the concept of socialism/communism became attractive to the working classes, the stripped wealth was the means for European nations to edge up the economic ladder.
You could also, as a factor, include consideration of the role of superstition. Just a general note on this point. Religious superstition must, in either a negative or positive role have been a factor in the European ascent. Is there a difference in the superstitious beliefs of Eastern Europe (including Russia) and Western Europe that could explain the differences between the two areas.
Those brief thoughts require a lot expansion before you could reach conclusions, but its my attempt to demonstrate the complexity of the problem of African poverty.
But one unassailable fact should be taken into consideration - for most of human history, the bulk (80-90%) of people were peasant farmers. Government taxation and agrarian landlords were factors to be ccnsidered in the well-being (or not) of peasant farmers.
The climb to prosperity is not well understood, perhaps because a large population of middle class people is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Clearly, industrialisation played a part in the prosperity attributable to western modernity. However, poverty was still a feature of working class life until the age of social revolution in the early 20th century. (Think of the labour unrest in the USA, in the late 19th and the first half of the 20th C).
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Great action Piks- Getting the Jump on Your Lunch
by fulltimestudent in.
two frames together - in the first we see the leopard picking his mark and commencing his jump in the second frame.
.
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fulltimestudent
So marvel at the efficient killing machine created by the creative works design studio of the Yahweh/Jesus combo divinity.
As Psalm 104 (NIV) notes:
24 How many are your works, O LORD! In wisdom you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures.
25 There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond number-- living things both large and small ...
27 These all look to you to give them their food at the proper time.
28 When you give it to them, they gather it up; when you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things.
And everyone is happy - except the poor bloody antelope!
Images from ChinaDaily - http://english.people.com.cn/n/2014/0927/c90782-8788612-7.html
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Great action Piks- Getting the Jump on Your Lunch
by fulltimestudent in.
two frames together - in the first we see the leopard picking his mark and commencing his jump in the second frame.
.
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fulltimestudent
Just enjoy lunch ...
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Great action Piks- Getting the Jump on Your Lunch
by fulltimestudent in.
two frames together - in the first we see the leopard picking his mark and commencing his jump in the second frame.
.
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fulltimestudent
the killer bite (to the throat).
back up the tree - safe from other carnivores
Not sure what was happening in the second frame, was the antelope too heavy ... anyway
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Great action Piks- Getting the Jump on Your Lunch
by fulltimestudent in.
two frames together - in the first we see the leopard picking his mark and commencing his jump in the second frame.
.
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fulltimestudent
nearly there:
and ... success (for the leopard)
