Posts by fulltimestudent

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

Doug Mason:

Doug Mason: The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews.

OK, thnks for bringing the book, "The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ," to our attention. I managed to get to SU this afternoon and borrowed the book. The study unit in which I enrolled this past semester, made it very clear that the first followers of Jesus, even after his death, were Jewish, and that their Judaism was as important to the first, as their belief in Jesus. And now, Daniel Boyarin makes a compelling case that Daniel ch. 7 is the origin of the divinity of Jesus. I'll look forward to discussing it at some point with Dr Chris Forbes, who convened my study unit last semester.

After only a couple of thoughtful hours of reading, I can recommend " The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ ," as a start to a better understanding of the development of the divine Jesus among the early believers.

It also (to me, anyway) confirms my understanding that the character Jesus was deluded.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

And one city on that map is important in a search to understand the influence of Greek/Hellenic thought on Jewish (including Christianity) holy writings:

Miletus was a Greek coastal city on the western shores of what we know as Asia Minor. It is interesting to us because a revolution in thinking occurred here roughly at the beginning of the sixth century BCE. The revolution replaced mythos with logos. Foundation myths that had attempted to explain why the world existed, were replaced, by logos as the human rational faculty that began to look for explanations within a framework of general hypotheses. In other words, scientific rationalism began to take the place of superstition.

Robin Waterfield, in his book, The First Philosophers, The Presocratics and Sophist, (Oxford University Press, Re-issue 2009) examines what we know of the men who are said to have, as far as the west is concerned, invented philosophy and science. Among the first are Thales, Anaximenes and Anaximander, all of whom lived in Miletus. It’s also a city that, according to NT traditions, was visited by Paul. But the reason I mention it here, is that it was also a city that would have been part of the coastal trade routes and the land routes of West Asia.

Wakefield suggests that “Ideas always travels with trade.” And to him, the location of Miletus, on a trade route linked to the older cultures of Babylon, Egypt, Lydia and Phoenicia, brought mythos to Miletus, from many places. It was also wealthy, and supported a literate, leisured class who had time to think about the various creation myths that were related by travellers, and to speculate for themselves.

It is against this background that Jews redacted their holy writings.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

To further examine the possible influence of Greek Mythology, think about the implications evident in this map:

This map marks spheres of influence on the shores of the Mediterranean in the sixth C. BCE. The red dots mark Greek cities, colonies and settlements. The yellow dots mark the areas settled by Phoenicians. (The Phoenicians are thought to be Canaanites). While its true that there are no red dots in the Palestine area of that time, we can understand that prior to Nebuchnezzar's destruction of the Jerusalem of the time, there must have been some interaction between Jews and Greeks, as the Greeks traded with Egypt by sea and land.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

Doug Mason: The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews.

Doug, I have not read, "The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ," but Sydney Uni Library has a copy, and I shall look at it soon, as I am not sure about the thought, expressed in the concept, "The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews." If the author is considering the thought expressed in Genesis 18> then I understand, otherwise I would have to consider, at least in western thought, that the Greeks were first.

Robin Lane Fox discusses the concept in his "Pagans and Christians in the Mediterranean World," chapter 4, titled, "Seeing the Gods." He draws attention to the writings of Homer (Ninth or Twelfth century BCE) in his epics the Gods were not just onlookers, they became participants and, 'stand beside' their heroes, as 'evident helpers.' At the end of the Iliad, Priam (an elderly man), afraid, defenceless, sets out to go to Achilles's camp. On his journey he meets a handsome young man who became his guide. Priam explains his guide as divine assistance. "Some God has held his hand over me." The young man turns out to be Hermes.

Understanding that common and age-old belief, helps us understand the crowd response in the claimed incident in Lystra, when Paul performs a miracle,

" The gods have come down to us in human form! Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker." (Acts 14: 11,12)

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Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.

by Witness 007 in

lindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..

fulltimestudent

Simon: FTS: posting videos of military footage set to hymn music is nowhere near equivalent. Your videos were removed because it would be far easier to find damning footage showing islam in a very bad light and there is no value in trying to "prove" any viewpoint by how much can be posted.

My post of two youtube videos, which were private person compilations set to the music of Battle Hymn of the Republic and Onward Christian Soldiers, were a response to Skeeter1's post in which he said to me:

Fulltime Student - Did the person do this crime while holding up a Christian symbol, a bible, Jesus Loves Me, writing a Christian manefesto, screaming Armeghedoon & Hell Fire, etc? I hoenstely don't know, so I ask. If he did this while holding up these symbols or shouting Christian fear-type mongering, then he should be labelled a Christian Terrorist.

I wanted to demonstrate that (as usual) there are two sides to the argument.

As I've said before, you're the boss. It's your site - I accept that you have the right of censorship. However, I think you are wrong in this case. It is not just Muslim's that have dragged religion into this dispute.

But I will leave the matter stand.

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Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.

by Witness 007 in

lindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..

fulltimestudent

Cofty: A lone gunman should be shot without a second thought. Two innocent people are dead, that is a failure.

Cofty, please read the post by DJS again:

Cofty,

Ditto unless they were'nt certain that he was acting alone, which, if not, would have potentially led to the deaths of all of the hostages even if they shot him right between the eyes. If they did know he was alone, the only other thing would be whether the snipers were given the "Go" to shoot when they had a clear shot. A sniper with a clear shot without the authorization to pull the trigger, IMHO, is the likely scenario. This happens a lot, as the decision makers weigh the options and potential consequences, opportunities are sometimes missed. Stuff happens. Success has many fathers; failure is an orphan. We shall see what the officials state.

NSW/Sydney is fortunate in having a reasonably sane and seemingly honest police commissioner. I listened to his press conference this morning. Since no-one knew, at the moment that the chance shot could have been made, how many gunmen were in the Cafe, the police would have made a risk assessment. If they took him out, and that precipitated a mass slaughter of hostages by another gunman, then the police would have been called rash.

I do not know how long it took before the police became aware of who they were dealing with, but as the 'hostage-taker' expert (whose video I posted earlier) commented, everything about this seige said "amateur," and not professional terrorist.

I suggest that the police were justified in waiting it out.

I am not defending Islam, (anymore, than I defend Christian terrorism), I am attempting to use reason to view this situation.

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Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.

by Witness 007 in

lindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..

fulltimestudent

Alphaman: It had to be someone picking on Islam who is at fault. Geez.

The video's I suggested, did not say that at all. The man is clearly Muslim, but the assessment of the authorities is that he was a mentally disturbed person who became a 'hostage-taker.' And, as the lecturer from Wollongong University pointed out, there are thousands of those situations around the world, every day.

About one year ago, only about 100 metres from here, and outside the Parliament building in Macquarie Street, a lone Christian, started a similar action. He claimed to have filled his car with enough explosive to destroy the building, and he threatened that he would do just that, if the government did not reverse a failed legal action he had been involved in. Much as I dislike Christianity, (nearly as much as I dislike Islam) I do not think that what this mentally disturbed 'Christain' did would justify a headline of "Christian Terrorism."

Do you?

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Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.

by Witness 007 in

lindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..

fulltimestudent

skeeter1: I understand why President Obama does drone attacks that killed innocent people, and why the CIA did its interrogation methods on caught terrorists. I don't mind either.

At the risk of being flamed, may I point out that part of the problem is that many Muslims who may become disturbed enough to take action, are a mirror image of your attitude.

Every time an innocent Muslim kid is killed by a drone, the possibility exists that some relative becomes angry enough to become a terrorist.

And, I expect (in view of the above comments (and, I do understand why you made the comment) that if one of your young relatives was killed in a Muslim terrorist action, you may become angry enough to become a soldier and go and kill a Muslim in their own country.

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