fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  54

  Polytheism in the Book of Daniel, a late second temple religious document

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.

  i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.

  so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.

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  fulltimestudent

  TheOldHippiean hour agoI think I too will go and buy myself a book, quote from it, and state that "this is the truth, because this professor says so." Stay tuned!

  
  

  That's a bitchy sort of remark, TOH!

  
  

  I will wait with interest to see the totally original thought that you are going to reveal to us.

  Near all human ideas are based on previous information in a series of steps,that slowly accrues information particularly via the process called "peer review."

  
  

  Boyarin, may be wrong, and you are perfectly at liberty to state with some kind of reference, where you think his arguments fall short.

  
  

  Finally, the whole point of the peer review process is to avoid the situation that you describe in your words, "this is the truth, because this professor says so."

  
  

  That's the mistake we all made as witnesses, as we accepted Freddy's viewpoint as sacred, albeit subject to alteration by the mysterious process of "new light," for which I never heard a satisfactory explanation as to how "new light' was supposed to work.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  54

  Polytheism in the Book of Daniel, a late second temple religious document

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.

  i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.

  so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  fulltimestudent

  True to the End2 hours ago

  I have not read the book but I can tell you that the book of Daniel is not promoting the worship of more than one God.

  Thank you TTTE, for sharing. I appreciate that what you wrote is likely your cherished opinion. And, I once held a similar opinion, and if it was well argued, it may even be worthy of consideration.

  But as your argument stands, its just a mass of assertions, and to be honest, if I wrote that for any assignment in some of my Judeao-Christian classes, my Supervisor would refuse to mark it and award me a zero. Now, I would not expect you to write at that type of academic level, but at least you could dignify your opinions by making some kind of reference to a proof point.

  Hellenic religious belief is accused (by many Christians, particularly early ones) of being polytheistic. When actually they were moving toward precisely the position you are defending. (i.e. a chief god and minor gods). So what's the difference between your position and the Hellenic position?
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  54

  Polytheism in the Book of Daniel, a late second temple religious document

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.

  i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.

  so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.

  1. 
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  fulltimestudent

  And here's the point that Boyarin makes, that I think we all missed when we read that text.

  Boyarin writes: (pp.32,33)

  "What this text projects is a second divine figure, to whom will be given eternal dominion of the entire world. ...
  it (the text) brings us close to at least some of the crucial characteristics of the figure named later, the Messiah or the Christ.
  What are these characteristics?
  He is divine.
  He is in human form
  He may very well be portrayed as younger-appearing divinity than the Ancient of Days.
  He will be enthroned on high.
  He is given power and dominion, even sovereignty on earth.

  Boyarin then goes on to argue that these are the characteristics applied to Jesus as he will appear in the Gospels,

  The point I want to make is that a second divine figure is not monotheistic. This is plainly, polytheistic.

  The second century Book of Daniel, is therefore plainly, a record of Jewish acceptance of polytheism by the time of the book's writing.

  Further, it is highly suggestive that the early Christians who accepted the divinity of Jesus (and, eventually the trinity) cannot be regarded as 'apostate.'
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  1

  Exciting news for CHINA!

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  behold the newest effort of the new world society in china:.

  .

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  fulltimestudent

  Typical witnesses, only 50+ years out of date.
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  1

  How does the brain process the enormous amounts of information it has to deal with

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  a fascinating insight into our mental processes:.

  researchers at nyu langone medical center have captured images of the underlying biological activity within brain cells and their tree-like extensions, or dendrites, in mice that show how their brains sort, store and make sense out of information during learning.. .

  rendering of dendrites in brain (stock image).

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  fulltimestudent

  A fascinating insight into our mental processes:
  

  Researchers at NYU Langone Medical Center have captured images of the underlying biological activity within brain cells and their tree-like extensions, or dendrites, in mice that show how their brains sort, store and make sense out of information during learning.
  

  
  

  Rendering of dendrites in brain (stock image). "We believe our study provides important insights into how the brain deals with vast amounts of information continuously as the brain learns new tasks," says senior study investigator and neuroscientist Wen-Biao Gan, PhD.

  Credit: © Sergey Nivens / Fotolia

  
  

  
  

  
  

  In a study to be published in the journal Nature online March 30, the NYU Langone neuroscientists tracked neuronal activity in dendritic nerve branches as the mice learned motor tasks such as how to run forward and backward on a small treadmill. They concluded that the generation of calcium ion spikes -- which appeared in screen images as tiny "lightning bolts" in these dendrites -- was tied to the strengthening or weakening of connections between neurons, hallmarks of learning new information.

  "We believe our study provides important insights into how the brain deals with vast amounts of information continuously as the brain learns new tasks," says senior study investigator and neuroscientist Wen-Biao Gan, PhD.

  Gan, a professor at NYU Langone and its Skirball Institute for Biomolecular Medicine, says, "we have long wondered how the brain can store new information continuously throughout life without disrupting previously acquired memories. We now know that the generation of calcium spikes in separate branches of nerve cells is critical for the brain to encode and store large quantities of information without interfering with each other."

  More at: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150330112236.htm
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  33

  Evidence for an Egyptian Presence In Early PalestineEgyptian Artifacts Salvaged from Robbed Tomb in Israel

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.

  that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.

  the israelites did not leave egypt.

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  fulltimestudent

  The Egyptian Presence in the Negev desert area is discussed in this University of California-San Diego web-site: http://levlab.ucsd.edu/publications/nahaltillah/

  FROM BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGIST 1995 VOLUME 58, NUMBER 1
  
  

  NEW LIGHT ON KING NARMER AND THE PROTODYNASTIC EGYPTIAN PRESENCE IN CANAAN.
  BY THOMAS E. LEVY, EDWIN C.M. VAN DEN BRINK, YUVAL GOREN AND DAVID ALON
  Recent excavations in Israelís northern Negev desert, carried out under the auspices of the new Nahal Tillah Regional Archaeology Project, are beginning to shed new light on the character of late Protodynastic/Early Dynastic Egyptian/Canaanite interaction, ca. 3300 - 3000 BC. Of key importance are new data concerning the role of one of the earliest historically known Egyptian kings - Narmer, in expansion of the Nile Valley civilization. One of the central research problems which the Nahal Tillah project focuses on is the nature of core - periphery relations and the impact of core civilizations on their less socially complex neighbors. Specifically, how do newly emergent ìpristineî civilizations impact and influence culture change in their less socially developed peripheries? These kinds of questions are linked to broader issues of culture evolution, especially the rise of secondary states in the ancient Near East.
  In July of 1994, a wealth of new data was recovered in excavations in the Nahal Tillah area near Kibbutz Lahav which have bearing on this problem. In soundings on the Halif Terrace at the Silo site (Figure 1), large numbers of imported Protodynastic/Early Dynastic Egyptian pottery vessels, architecture, a clay seal impression, and a new incised sherd bearing the serekh symbol of King Narmer were found. Narmer, known to archaeologists from the exquisite large stone palette which contains his name symbolized as a catfish, was once thought to have been responsible for the first unification of upper and lower Egypt sometime between 3050 - 3000 BCE. This article outlines the archaeological and historical context of the new Narmer serekh and examines the importance of this early epigraphic artifact for southeastern Mediterranean archaeology.
  
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  16

  When did Christianity Separate from Judaism?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a subject of some importance, the view of the witnesses, likely inherited from franz's influence, seems to be that early christianity developed as a separate religion to the jews.. the view of most contemporary scholars is that the separation occurred slowly, and that influential early christians (e.g.

  such as paul, peter, john and james) still saw themselves as jews.. to those of us that are no longer christians (and, most ex-witnesses here, seem to gradually move to that position) this is not an important issue.. but to an organisation that claims it has "the truth," surely it should know the truth about its origins.

  yet the evidence is that the modern day religion of jehovah's witnesses, does not know the "truth" concerning the origins of early christianity.

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  fulltimestudent

  The chapter headings are described here:

  Partings—How Judaism & Christianity Became Two - Softcover

  NEW FROM BAS!

  Partings—How Judaism and Christianity Became Two

  Edited by Hershel Shanks

  Click here to purchase the hardcover version.

  The Parting of the Ways between Judaism and Christianity was not one, but many. It occurred in different ways in different places and in different times. Never before has this multi-faceted process been documented so engagingly and so authoritatively by so many eminent scholars from the United States, England, Israel and elsewhere as in this new book from the Biblical Archaeology Society.

  Anyone interested in this fascinating topic will find this carefully edited, insightful volume as engaging as a novel. Written by world authorities, it’s a unique resource easily understood by both the student and interested layperson. Just take a look at the chapter titles below and the famous authors who wrote them.

  I. The Jewish Jesus Movement
  Geza Vermes
  II. From the Crucifixion to the End of the First Century
  James D.G. Dunn
  III. The Godfearers: From the Gospels to Aphrodisias
  Bruce Chilton
  IV. The Christian Flight to Pella? The Archaeological Picture
  Pamela Watson
  V. Parting in Palestine
  Joan Taylor
  VI. Christianity in Antioch: Partings in Roman Syria
  Annette Yoshiko Reed and Lily Vuong
  VII. Living Side by Side in Galilee
  Eric M. Meyers
  VIII. Jews and Christians at Rome: An Early Parting of the Ways
  Margaret H. Williams
  IX. Christianity’s Rise After Judaism’s Demise in Early Egypt
  Robert A. Kraft and AnneMarie Luijendijk
  X. Ebionites and Nazoraeans: Christians or Jews?
  Matt A. Jackson-McCabe
  XI. In Between: Jewish-Christians and the Curse of the Heretics
  Shaye J.D. Cohen
  XII. The Complexities of Rejections and Attraction, Herein of Love and Hate
  Steven Fine
  XIII. From Sabbath to Sunday: Why, How and When?
  Lawrence T. Geraty
  XIV. Social Organization and Parting in East and West
  Arye Edrei and Doron Mendels
  XV. Did They Ever Part?
  James H. Charlesworth

  416 pp., 8 pp. of color plates, 48 b&w illustrations,
  13 color illustrations (all on color plates), 8 maps

  More Information at:

  http://store.bib-arch.org/prodinfo.asp?number=7HP1
  
  
  
• 
  16

  When did Christianity Separate from Judaism?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a subject of some importance, the view of the witnesses, likely inherited from franz's influence, seems to be that early christianity developed as a separate religion to the jews.. the view of most contemporary scholars is that the separation occurred slowly, and that influential early christians (e.g.

  such as paul, peter, john and james) still saw themselves as jews.. to those of us that are no longer christians (and, most ex-witnesses here, seem to gradually move to that position) this is not an important issue.. but to an organisation that claims it has "the truth," surely it should know the truth about its origins.

  yet the evidence is that the modern day religion of jehovah's witnesses, does not know the "truth" concerning the origins of early christianity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  fulltimestudent

  This is a subject of some importance, the view of the witnesses, likely inherited from Franz's influence, seems to be that early Christianity developed as a separate religion to the Jews.

  The view of most contemporary scholars is that the separation occurred slowly, and that influential early Christians (e.g. such as Paul, Peter, John and James) still saw themselves as Jews.

  To those of us that are no longer Christians (and, most ex-witnesses here, seem to gradually move to that position) this is not an important issue.

  But to an organisation that claims it has "the truth," surely it should know the truth about its origins. Yet the evidence is that the modern day religion of Jehovah's witnesses, does not know the "truth" concerning the origins of early Christianity.

  For those who seek to know more about the separation of early Christianity from Judaism, this Bible Archeological Society publication will help analyse the evidence.

  
  
• 
  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  fulltimestudent

  Coded Logica day ago: Why didn't Jesus ever write anything? Why are there no letters to Jesus?

  He may have written things, but they were not preserved. We have the documents called the Dead Sea Scrolls which demonstrate that the Jewish group that produced those documents, liked to put things in writing.

  Personally I doubt that he wrote much, because the type of preacher that he was (and there were others like him) were very verbal. I don't consider that the sort of teacher that Jesus was would think it necessary to record and write things down. He was convinced (or, deluded) that God was acting through him, and that the promised Jewish Kingdom would be established soon
  

  As far as paintings and sculptures were concerned, such things were made of elite people.

  -----------------------
  

  JeffTa day ago: Due to the ban on idolatry, the Jews didn't not make busts or paintings of anybody.

  Not true Jeff, the synagogue at Dura-Europas dated to likely the second/third centuries CE, were richly ornamented with biblical characters and scenes. As:

  
  

  And from Palestine itself, there are extant mosaic synagogue floors, quite possibly from the first century, that show similar scenes
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  33

  Evidence for an Egyptian Presence In Early PalestineEgyptian Artifacts Salvaged from Robbed Tomb in Israel

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.

  that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.

  the israelites did not leave egypt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  fulltimestudent

  Another item:

  Egyptians Brewed Beer in Tel Aviv 5,000 Years Ago
  by Megan Gannon, News Editor | March 30, 2015 11:38am ET
  Tel Aviv's reputation as a party city for expats might have started 5,000 years ago.
  During the Bronze Age, Egyptians were making beer in what is today downtown Tel Aviv, new archaeological evidence suggests.
  When archaeologists were conducting salvage excavations ahead of construction on new office buildings along Hamasger Street, they found 17 ancient pits that were used to store produce, according to an announcement from the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA).
  These pits held Egyptian-style pottery that dated back to the Early Bronze Age I, a period that lasted from 3500 B.C. to 3000 B.C. [In Photos: Early Bronze Age Chariot Burial]
  "On the basis of previously conducted excavations in the region, we knew there is an Early Bronze Age site here, but this excavation is the first evidence we have of an Egyptian occupation in the center of Tel Aviv at that time," Diego Barkan, an archaeologist who was conducting the excavation on behalf of the IAA, said in the statement.
  Barkan and his colleagues found hundreds of pottery fragments, including broken pieces of large ceramic basins traditionally used to prepare beer — a staple of the Egyptian diet.
  The clay that was used to create these basins had been mixed with straw or other organic materials as strengthening agents. This method wasn't used in the local pottery industry in Israel, but straw-tempered vessels have been found before at other Egyptian sites — notably, the Egyptian administrative building that was excavated at En Besor in southern Israel, Barkan explained.
  "This is also the northernmost evidence we have of an Egyptian presence in the Early Bronze Age I," Barkan said. "Until now, we were only aware of an Egyptian presence in the northern Negev and southern coastal plain, whereby the northernmost point of Egyptian occupation occurred in Azor. Now we know that they also appreciated what the Tel Aviv region had to offer and that they too knew how to enjoy a glass of beer, just as Tel Avivians do today."
  The archaeologists report that they also found 5,000-year-old bones from wild boar, sheep and goat at the site, as well as a bronze dagger and stone tools dating back 6,000 years, during the Chalcolithic period.

  Link: http://www.livescience.com/50300-egyptians-brewed-beer-in-tel-aviv.html