fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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Living with Islam - Professor at Wheaton College (Wheaton, Illinois) suspended in row over comments on Islam.
by fulltimestudent inhttps://www.facebook.com/themapstories/videos/1665500500401993/?theater
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Why the Watchtower is not Christian
by WireRider ina simple factual statement.
part of another thread but i thought i would offer it everyone.. jehovah witness are not christian.
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fulltimestudent
Cofty is quite correct. Matt Slick (the speaker) in that video is no Bible scholar. He assumes that there was one 'truth' and one organisation in the first century that could be called 'Christian.' But it is more accurate to see a diversity of belief in the first century,
Geza Vermes was one of the best modern scholars of early Christianity. Perhaps you would find his book, Christian Beginnings: From Nazareth to Nicaea, AD 30-325, helpful.
Vermes closely examines Paul's writings attempting to discern what he thought the Christ was. I wont bother to post all that he says, you can check it out for yourself if you really want to try to understand. But on page 106 (of my 2012) edition he posits that Paul never envisaged Jesus as fully sharing the nature of the deity. And on page 111 lists all the prayer formulas, benedictions and doxologies used by Paul, and demonstrates that it cannot be argued that Paul ever prayed TO Jesus as God.
He further argues that the charismatic-eschatological religious teachings placed in the mouth of Jesus as his religious experience morphed into something a little different in the early Jewish-Christian church under the leadership of James (the brother of Jesus), and that Pauline Christianity appears to be another significant departure from the original teachings of Jesus.
That btw does not prove the witnesses correct either. They posit that Jesus left behind a strong centralised religious organisation with clearly delineated teachings. There is little evidence of that.
Another (Jewish) scholar, Daniel Boyarin, seen by some to be the leading scholar of early Judaism alive today, draws on Daniel 7 to demonstrate that in addition to YHWH the 'senior' divinity, Judaism countenanced a 'junior' divinity in that chapter of Daniel. And from that text, some Jewish converts could see Jesus as a God. Boyarin draws on other Jewish texts (First Enoch and Fourth Ezra) to demonstrate that some Jews did believe in the imminent presence of the Messiah, and his apotheosis (elevation to a divine status). Boyarin argues his position in some papers available in academic journals and in a more readable book, The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ.
Boyarin points out that primitive Hebrew religious texts are not monotheistic, and that's the source of the Daniel 7 concept.
I'm sure that Boyarin is correct in saying that the concepts of monotheism were sourced in Egyptian religious ideas or the Zoroastrian religion that influenced Judaism while captive in Babylon, and possibly even Hellenistic thought which was dominant in all of west Asia by the time of Jesus.
So while Paul may not have seen Jesus as God or even a God, certainly by circa 110 CE, there were Christians seeing Jesus as their God. But it was a slow evolution of a concept.
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Trinity doctrine and bible canonization
by The JHWH inhello, a quick question that came to find and couldn't find easy answer using google so i'ma try here.. so: was the doctrine of trinity decided to be a christian doctrine by the same people who chose which books to include in the bible?
i vaguely remember that both of these subjects were decided at the first council of nicaea.
if this is not the case, then when, where and by whom were these things decided?.
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fulltimestudent
The JHWH: So: Was the doctrine of trinity decided to be a christian doctrine by the same people who chose which books to include in the bible? I vaguely remember that both of these subjects were decided at the first council of Nicaea. If this is not the case, then when, where and by whom were these things decided?
Ummm! The trinity doctrine developed to deal with certain contradictions caused by Christian beliefs. There is no clear story of the development of Christianity, all we can do is read early writings and attempt to figure out what was happening.
For instance, Ignatius, the Overseer (Bishop) of the Antioch group of Christians was arrested around 110 CE, and sent to Rome to be tried. On the way he was greeted by representatives of various local churches, to whom he later wrote. Seven of those letters survive. The topics mostly deal with faithfulness and obedience . But from the viewpoint of JW dogma there are two interesting points in his letter to the Romans.It is clear from his that letter that he expected to be with Jesus soon after his death- there seems no expectation of a long sleep in death.
But the second point touches on your question. In ch.3 vs 3, he writes,
"Our God Jesus Christ, indeed, has revealed himself ..."
So, within a generation (at the most) of the death of the Apostles, a Church leader could call Jesus, "God."
However, that was just the start of a long journey to reconcile that idea with other Jewish teachings. However some scholars (like Daniel Boyarin) feel that the vision of Daniel 7 had already prepared the way for a concept of a senior God and a Junior God.
Boyarin feels that this idea came from the long intellectual movement within Judaism from polytheism to monotheism. ( See his The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ.)
I myself have the opinion, that the Hellenisation of West Asia introduced (if nothing else already had not) the concept of apotheosis, the elevation of a human to Godship (divine status). In Greek mythology, Hercules (Heracles) who had a human mother, but a God (Zeus) for a father, was apotheosised after his death and was escorted to heaven by the Goddess Athena. How natural for the gospel writers to describe their beliefs about Jesus, using commonly discussed Hellenic ideas.
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A Railway Journey to the most northern Rail station in the world
by fulltimestudent infor a quick insight into this 2000 km journey into the frozen wastes of siberia:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o16lyhzmzvc.
the whole journey is available on australia's sbs service (if you can access it).. http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/574275139619/extreme-railway-journeys-one-way-ticket-to-siberia.
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fulltimestudent
Keep hoping OC - its going to be easier, I think its eight days from Vladivostok to Moscow, and therefore more time to St Petersburg, which is worth seeing. A major part of the cost is food etc (like a ships cruise). In about 5 years you will be able to do Beijing to Moscow in about three days on the the high speed line that Russia and China have agreed to build (Now in planning stage).
So consider, In year1, start from St Petersburg and travel to Moscow, seeing the sights in both places. Save up again and when ready do Moscow>Beijing>Vladivostok., though you can do Moscow>Vladivostok.
You can also (now) go from many European cities through Kazakhstan to Beijing or Shanghai. And, it will get simpler and cheaper as the Chinese implement their plans for rail connections to Europe.
Btw, the line in my post is not the trans-siberian, if anyone thought it was. It's this one: http://www.nordrail.com/tour_travel_yamal_arctic_railway.html
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A Railway Journey to the most northern Rail station in the world
by fulltimestudent infor a quick insight into this 2000 km journey into the frozen wastes of siberia:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o16lyhzmzvc.
the whole journey is available on australia's sbs service (if you can access it).. http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/574275139619/extreme-railway-journeys-one-way-ticket-to-siberia.
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fulltimestudent
For a quick insight into this 2000 km journey into the frozen wastes of Siberia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o16lyHzMZvc
The whole journey is available on Australia's SBS service (if you can access it).
http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/574275139619/extreme-railway-journeys-one-way-ticket-to-siberia
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Chinese Tiger Park bred 110 tigers in 2015
by fulltimestudent inthese tigers are known as siberian tigers, and have been considered endangered.. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-12/10/c_134903867.htm.
there are 10 good piks on the link..
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fulltimestudent
A Chinese news report tells of an increasing presence of tigers in Jilin province. this province borders North Korea and Russia, but is not the most northerly province of China. The most northerly province is Heilongjiang which shares a very long border with Siberia.
CHANGCHUN, Dec. 17 (Xinhua) -- Traces of wild Siberian tigers have been spotted in forest farms in northeast China's Jilin Province, marking the expansion of the tigers' range of activity, the local forestry administration said Thursday.English.news.cn 2015-12-17 20:38:11
Infrared cameras showed footprints and pictures of the tigers in areas administered by the Tianqiaoling Forest Administration in Wangqing County and Baishishan Forest Administration in Jiaohe City last Thursday and Friday, according to the provincial forestry department.
"The Siberian tigers once wandered in Tianqiaoling area but became extinct in the mid 1980s," said Wu Zhigang, a researcher with the provincial academy of forestry.
"The comeback of the tigers shows that they are expanding their sphere of activity from the border areas to the inland regions," he said.
The provincial forestry department set up about 1,000 far infrared cameras to monitor the activity of the Siberian tigers and leopards since 2006. There are 27 Siberian tigers currently living in Jilin Province, according to the latest survey.
Jilin has banned commercial logging in key state-owned forest farms since April 1 this year, which improves the living environment for the Siberian tigers.
Siberian tigers are among the world's most endangered species. They mostly live in northeast China and eastern Russia.link: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-12/17/c_134927878.htm
It would be interesting to know if there is a tiger count in North Korea. In the section adjoining Jilin its generally more rugged and less populated than China.
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Going to see Star Wars:The Force Awakens - What are you seeing?
by fulltimestudent inthis is not an attempt to 'straightjacket' anyone into a fixed interpretative perspective.
so set your mind free and see satan and his demons if you reallynwant to adopt a possible jw perspective.
or, just sit back and watch the show and the trick affects if you want.. or like the uk guardian you could see the movie in terms of dysfunction (personal and family).. quote: the original movies were always based on the most extraordinary nexus of personal and family dysfunction: a motor of guilt, shame and conflict.
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fulltimestudent
Barrold Bonds: Star Wars is quite literally children's entertainment. It's all just stuff cribbed from the old Flash Gordon serials mixed with a dash of Kurosawa (and a hint of John Ford). Don't think too deeply about it.
That's cool! It is (in the end) a 'boys own adventure,' with a feminist add-on, told in such a way that it will not tire the brains of child-like adults.
Pattberg's scholarship, (as his brief bio makes clear) is focused on Chinese thought and the way that 'world culture' is handling/adjusting to the re-emergence of an Asian power in a world that's essentially Eurocentric since the European (the USA is a transplanted 'Europower) led 'age of Colonialism.'
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talesin: FTS - My only question to that premise would be that in the Force, duality is not seen in most of the characters. The Dark Side (Emperor) is totally evil. Anakin, too, is pure good, until he turns to the Dark Side and becomes Lord Vader, who (we are led to believe) is pure evil as well. This runs contrary to the balance of yin/yang in taoism, in which each entity would have a balance. On the other hand, we do see this balance in Anakin (Vader), death scene. Hmmm, it seems that the Emperor represents the pure evil, and the Jedi pure good. HA! Rather confusing, but I will have to look at this more. Now that I think about it, when Yoda was teaching Luke, we saw the beginnings of good vs. evil struggling in the young Jedi.
It's always been my feeling that the concepts of SW was simplistic - the age-old fairy tale where the forces of good battle the forces of evil. Such nuances did not occur to me. But filmography is the literature of the modern age, and I believe, invites such analyses. Interesting thread this is, for this SW geek.I agree - it is a simplistic story, but its likely that most popular stories are simplistic. Did Jesus say anything profound? Or rather, did the accepted (as 'official) stories portray his saying anything profound
The travelling storytellers of the past, (now replaced by films and TV) knew stories had to be simple and exciting. So the precedents of modern western culture were not very profound, and neither are the stories of today.
Take Hercules, as an example,
"Hermes, Herakles and Theseus, who are honoured in the gymnasium and wrestling-ground according to a practice universal among Greeks, and now common among barbarians." ( Pausanias, Description of Greece 4. 32. 1 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) :
Why was he 'honoured' in the Gymnasiums? the gymnasiums were the finishing school for the young men of a Greek city, where naked young men, with oiled bodies, worked out and engaged in body contact sports like wrestling, And on the wall for all to 'honor' a representation of Hercules - a typical teen age hero.
(See the Twelve Labours of Hercules) -
He also sleeps with all fifty daughters, maybe all in the one night, of King Thespius, which was not his only sexual exploit.
And, as was likely for most young men in Hellenic culture, he had at least one boyfriend, Hylas.
The poet Theocritus, who wrote 300 years before our era, had this to say:
"We are not the first mortals to see beauty in what is beautiful. No, even Amphitryon's bronze-hearted son, who defeated the savage Nemean lion, loved a boy-charming Hylas, whose hair hung down in curls.
And of course, (important to Christians) he was part divine, having Zeus for a father, and a human mother (Alcmeme). None of the stories told about him are particularly profound, which hasn't stopped scholarly speculation looking for deeper meanings to the stories and his role in Greek life.
But how interesting for us that in Hellenised Judah, even the temple priests were attracted to the Greek gymnasium, and rushed to strip off their clothing and oil their bodies and join in the fun of wrestling with other naked boys. ( http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_08059.html )
That of course, raised a problem. The priests were circumcised, a practise abhorred by the Greeks as it exposed the glans penis to public gaze, and this led many to attempt a reversal of their circumcised penises.
All of which shows the tendency for popular stories to 'keep it simple,' but at the same time, exciting!
One more interesting experience for Hercules: His Apotheosis.
In this vase painting (from approx. 410 BCE) Hercules is 'raised' from his funeral pyre and carried off to heaven in Athene's chariot, leaving his clothing behind (but taking his club and his loinskin). You'll notice some satyrs and women looking at the palce where the corpse should've been.
Have you heard that story before ?
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Going to see Star Wars:The Force Awakens - What are you seeing?
by fulltimestudent inthis is not an attempt to 'straightjacket' anyone into a fixed interpretative perspective.
so set your mind free and see satan and his demons if you reallynwant to adopt a possible jw perspective.
or, just sit back and watch the show and the trick affects if you want.. or like the uk guardian you could see the movie in terms of dysfunction (personal and family).. quote: the original movies were always based on the most extraordinary nexus of personal and family dysfunction: a motor of guilt, shame and conflict.
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fulltimestudent
This is not an attempt to 'straightjacket' anyone into a fixed interpretative perspective. So set your mind free and see Satan and his demons if you reallynwant to adopt a possible JW perspective. Or, just sit back and watch the show and the trick affects if you want.
Or like the UK Guardian you could see the movie in terms of dysfunction (personal and family).
Quote: The original movies were always based on the most extraordinary nexus of personal and family dysfunction: a motor of guilt, shame and conflict. Luke was driven by an increasingly complex Freudian animus against Darth Vader; Han Solo referred to the Millennium Falcon as “she”; male audiences were encouraged both to identify with Luke and to lech over Princess Leia in her outrageous gold slave bikini – and then, with exquisite narrative sadism, we were told they were brother and sister."
Or get really off with this interpretative take by Thorsten Pattberg* of the film:
Star Wars is Chinese Taoism
Quote:
"STAR WARS is a space saga with aliens and superhumans. The latter are the so-called “Jedi knights” who mastered “the Force” and embark on the “Jedi’s Way.” Taoism is a 2500 years old cosmic Chinese philosophy about the Force (Qi), the Way (Dao), and about superhuman persons –the Junzi (or Daojun)- embarking on the Way of Tao."
Quote:
"Those who studied Taoism know about its fundamentals: In the beginning there was the Tao, then the Tao beget the two opposing forces: Yin and Yang. In STAR WARS we have the Force, which begets the two opposing forces: the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force. The practitioners of the Way (or Tao) are heroes and antiheroes (called Jedi Masters and Sith Lords in STAR WARS). Both in STAR WARS and in Taoism, the practitioners can use powerful telekinesis and extend their life-spans considerably through self-cultivation and mediation (Shen-xiu). Both the Jedis in STAR WARS and the Daojun in Taoism practice Wu-wei –effortless action (sometimes translated as non-action). The hierarchies of practitioners in Taoism is this: First we have the superior gentleman (Junzi), then the Taoist gentleman (Daojun), followed by the Taoist sages (Shengren)."
Quote:
"The highest level in Taoism, however, is the Xianren –Taoist immortals. In the STAR WARS franchise, Darth Vadar, Master Yoda, and the Emperor are in effect (Taoist) Xianren. You can see this when even after their mortal deaths, they appear as guiding spirits (Shen) to their followers. Obi-Wan Kenobi is depicted throughout the STAR WARS franchise as rising through the ranks of a talented Junzi to a noble Daojun (when he picks his first disciple, Anakin Skywalker) and then a Shengren (sage). His first disciple, Anakin, is lost to the Dark Side. As a sage, Obi-Wan Kenobi, gets a second chance and picks his second disciple, Luke Skywalker (who will later defeat his father, Anakin). When Obi-Wan chooses to be physically killed, he does so faithfully in knowing that the Force would grant him immortality (Xianren). Last, all the persons mentioned are practicing ancient forms of martial arts (Wu) and wear Taoist robes (Daofu)."
So when we watch this movie, are we really seeing a modern interpretation of ancient Daoism? Pattberg concludes:
This all is NOT “new” discovery. On the contrary: EVERYONE who knows about Taoism and has seen STAR WARS knows these resemblances. George Lucas, who created the story in 1977, is not denying it. Taoist teachers all over the world use STAR WARS to explain Taoism. The internet is full of memes, such as ‘The Tao of Star Wars’ or ‘Tao Te Jedi'.
Link: http://www.east-west-dichotomy.com/star-wars-is-chinese-taoism/
Whether anyone sees the film from this perspective is not important. If there's a lesson to be learned, it is this. Viewers are really seeing a metaphor for the endurance of Chinese civilisation that helps us to understand how that civilisation has endured for some 3000 years and has the internal ability to keep renewing itself time after time.
* Pattberg is a German scholar now resident in Asia, currently he is a Visiting fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies on Asia at the University of Tokyo.
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Good books to read?
by thedepressedsoul ini read crisis on the conscience and i am about to start, "who wrote the bible?
does anyone have a list or great books to read for anyone searching for the real truth?
i've only ever seen the world through a jw lens and i am excited to see what other view points are out there!
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fulltimestudent
In attempting to understand the development of early Christianity, Bart Ehrman's collection of post NT documents is quite helpful:
After the New Testament: A Reader in Early Christianity. - Oxford University Press
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An anthem for the emerging tough 'new woman.'
by fulltimestudent injust for you.. .
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posted by https://www.facebook.com/zinicnyoperator/">smooth operator on thursday, 3 december 2015. .
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fulltimestudent
Just for you.
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Снято одним планом?Авторы уверяют, что видео снято одним планом без склеек.А что вы скажете, уважаемые коллеги? Какой техникой и каким образом это было сделано?
Posted by https://www.facebook.com/ZinicnyOperator/">Smooth Operator on Thursday, 3 December 2015
