fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  1

  Is this the Oldest (extant) Represention of the Virgin Mary? - Asks the NY Times.

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  michael peppard is an associate professor of theology at fordham university and the author, most recently, of “the world’s oldest church: bible, art, and ritual at dura-europos, syria.” in this ny times article he reviews what we understand about this image in a church in the roman outpost of dura-europos, .

  peppard compares the image with others and concludes that the artist intended to portray mary.

  the image was preserved by being buried in sand in the third century ce, in an attempt to strengthen the walls of the outpost against attack by the sasanians.. .

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  fulltimestudent

  The detective work performed during Peppard's investigation gives an idea of the complexity in early Christian scholarship.

  If YHWH or יֵשׁוּעַ intended to provide a guide to salvation, it has to be said that they were unable to inspire a clear guide. What we are left with is some documents that only tell part of the story and leave huge gaps as to what happened back there, and what precisely the 'truth' is that sets us free. The place that Mary occupies in the lives of so many Christians and the implacable oppostion to the idea by millions of other Christians demonstrates the confusion that YHWH left us with.

  Likely more than 50% of modern day Christians venerate Mary in some way or the other and the historical and archaeological evidence indicates that the veneration was part of Christian began early in the church's history, so that by 431 at the Council of Ephesus the belief that Mary was the Mother of God was declared to be dogma.

  The oldest known statement about Mary's honored position appears in a hymn dated to the third or fourth centuries (the 200s and 300s).

  Beneath Thy Protection (Greek: Ὑπὸ τὴν σὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν; Latin: Sub tuum præsidium) is the oldest preserved extant hymn to the Blessed Virgin
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_tuum_praesidium

  leading to the well-known belief of Catholic and Orthodox Christians that Mary can protect you. As in this portrayal

  

  So while there does not seem to be any evidence that the Christian community at Dura-Europos venerated Mary in that way, the evidence points to a belief,by some (at least) at that time that Mary occupied a special place in their concept of salvation.
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  1

  Is this the Oldest (extant) Represention of the Virgin Mary? - Asks the NY Times.

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  michael peppard is an associate professor of theology at fordham university and the author, most recently, of “the world’s oldest church: bible, art, and ritual at dura-europos, syria.” in this ny times article he reviews what we understand about this image in a church in the roman outpost of dura-europos, .

  peppard compares the image with others and concludes that the artist intended to portray mary.

  the image was preserved by being buried in sand in the third century ce, in an attempt to strengthen the walls of the outpost against attack by the sasanians.. .

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  fulltimestudent

  Michael Peppard is an associate professor of theology at Fordham University and the author, most recently, of “The World’s Oldest Church: Bible, Art, and Ritual at Dura-Europos, Syria.” In this NY times article he reviews what we understand about this image in a Church in the Roman outpost of Dura-Europos,

  

  Peppard compares the image with others and concludes that the artist intended to portray Mary. The image was preserved by being buried in sand in the third century CE, in an attempt to strengthen the walls of the outpost against attack by the Sasanians.

  
  

  Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/is-this-the-oldest-image-of-the-virgin-mary.html?smid=fb-share
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  25

  Has a 'Christian' ever murdered somebody?

  by goddidit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a jw made the claim "no christian [jw] has ever murdered anyone".. when i showed examples of such, the goalposts moved a bit with "was he a baptized, dedicated witness?".

  can anyone provide examples of murders committed by "baptized, dedicated" jws?.

  thanks.

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  fulltimestudent

  The 'thought' behind the question is likely founded on the idea that once a 'Christian' commits a crime, he/she is no longer a Christian. (A JW branded Christian or any other brand of Christian), but the question becomes more complicated when we consider that a "Christian" theoretically is a transformed personality.

  So if the person with the transformed personality commits a murder (an illegal, premeditated killing), what's happened to the transformed personality

  Another thought on the question. Is there a difference between 'murder' and 'killing'?

  I think everyone gets that difference. So since (in theological concepts) YHWH is the giver of life, he therefore has the right to take life. Many of us would not buy that idea, but its implicit in the stoning scenario of Deuteronomy 17 (and. I've heard elders explaining that a disfellowshipping is like that ), and also in the genocidal invasion of other people's homelands committed in the mythical Jewish invasion of the promised land. But since, YHWH has the right to take life, the stone throwers and the Jewish soldiers with swords killing babies are not murderers or killers, but executioners.

  Semantics of course, but part of the reason I was disfellowshipped.
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  14

  "Always submit to the Church Administration", everybody sing it now!!

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's a wonderfully sickening video from another cult, the "church of christ".

  have a listen and tell me if it doesn't remind you of a certain familiar jw tune, namely, "listen, obey, and be blessed!

  this is crazy, just crazy!

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  fulltimestudent

  A lot of similarities to our former loving brothers and sister.

  They also grew out of the insanity of the nineteenth century American Restoration movement. They were a break away group of Presbyterians who disagreed with the mainstream church.

  They have not done as well as Charlie's boys and girls, with a bit more two million adherents, a bit more than half in the USA.
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  15

  Proof of Jehovah's fast moving chariot!

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  at the meeting sunday, the brother giving the "public talk" (no one from the public is ever there) was talking about how the organization is moving so fast.

  as proof of this he held up the new field service time slip.

  yep, that was plenty of proof for me, a smaller time slip to guilt the congregation to use their tablets in service to show video's.

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  fulltimestudent

  Be a bit wary of these 'divine chariots,' they are not safe to drive - they crash and burn!.

  Remember that when Ezekiel introduced the concept of divine chariots doing wheelies in the sky, just before the Babylonian captivity, he was really (supposedly) foretelling the divine oversight of the second temple construction.

  In 70 CE the Romans destroyed that second temple, and therefore metaphorically the chariot that screeched around overhead doing wheelies, crashed and burned.

  The people of the Dead Sea Scrolls (most likely the Essenes) also thought of YHWH's spirit driving the heavenly chariots. The DDS document, now known as document 4Q405, and in the section identified as 20 ii, 21-2, the author describes his imagined concept of YHWH's chariot, clearly inspired by Ezekiel's vision.

  Here's a few extracts from that section:

  " ... His glorious chariots. When ... they go ... they do not turn aside but advance straight."
  "The cherubim bless the image of the throne-chariot above the firmament ... When the wheels advance, angels of holiness come and go..."
  "The spirits of the living 'gods' move perpetually with the glory of the marvellous chariot(s)."

  Problem was for those people, one day one of those angels envisioned as moving effortlessly 'between' the wheels, misjudged things, got mangled up in a wheel and the whole bloody thing crashed and burned. With YHWH's mighty chariot out of action, the approaching Roman armies easily defeated the Jews (again) and destroyed the temple and slaughtered so many Jews, that Palestine was on the way to becoming the home of non-Jewish people.

  The DDS people in particular disappeared from history, just as it appears that the divine chariot swinging wildly around over the heads of the modern day JWs, is not so much speeding, but skidding around out of control. Soon, it seems this version of the divine chariot will also crash and burn.

  Better than Star Wars, isn't it? Someone ought to produce a video game, "YHWH's divine chariot crashes and burns."

  ----------------

  Sorry for letting my imagination loose! (I'm better than Freddy, arn't I?)
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  11

  Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls-Do the Scrolls Help us Understand Early Christianity?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think most scholarship would agree with a positive answer to that question.

  but let's take a look for oursselves.

  geza vermes, in his excellent translation ( the complete dead sea scrolls in english-penguin.

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  fulltimestudent

  Crazyguy : I believe that the experts believe that the scrolls we're burried before the 1 century so in effect they never effected christianity.

  Thnx for raising the point of the DDS chronology, Crazyguy?

  One thing first though, the DDS were not buried, but stored in caves, at least for most of them.

  And in regard to whether the scrolls (or, at least the people who wrote them) affected early Christianity, I think that if these scrolls reflect Jewish thinking in the first century (and before) we would have to agree that they may have done so.

  We cannot be absolutely sure of how these documents came to be in the cave. Vermes (and many other scholars) think the Qumran site buildings were most likely used by a monastic branch of the Essenes. Some of the documents describe the rules for such a group and also for those of the sect that lived in towns. If that's true, then the buildings and caves were simply abandoned in the chaos preceding the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

  Of course, there are other possibilities, including one which suggests that the documents came from libraries in Jerusalem, and they were hurriedly moved out of the city as the Roman armies approached. One item of evidence that suggests that is a list of treasures, but I think we'd have to agree that if the site was occupied by sectarians, who held all things in common, for some 200 years, that a deal of wealth would have been accumulated.
  

  The reasonably agreed dating as being in the first century CE, allows for the probability of contact between the Qumran sectarians (if they did indeed live there) and early Christians. They were all part of the religious ferment that bubbled away in first century CE Judaism.

  Why not get a copy of Geza Vermes', The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English, for yourself. Amazon list it for sale at about US$13. Vermes explains a lot about the scrolls as well as offering his translation.

  
  

  The Israel Museum has also digitised some of the scrolls, but only the Isaiah scroll has been translated in their version. http://www.english.imjnet.org.il/page_1348

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Some of these suggestions are outlined in this Smithsonian overview:

  
  

  http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-wrote-the-dead-sea-scrolls-11781900/?all

  
  Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?
  Resolving the dispute over authorship of the ancient manuscripts could have far-reaching implications for Christianity and Judaism
  By Andrew Lawler - Smithsonian Magazine - January 2010

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  2

  Indian Social Issues: Honor Killings! - "Can anything be worse than killing your own child?"

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  this question is explored in an asia times overview of the problem:.

  in the name of family honor, india is dishonored.

  the issue is dramatised in a new film, chauranga.. quote: kill a child for honor, but how heinous!.

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  fulltimestudent

  This question is explored in an Asia Times overview of the problem:

  In the name of family honor, India is dishonored.

  The issue is dramatised in a new film, Chauranga.

  Quote: Kill a child for honor, but how heinous!

  BY GAUTAMAN BHASKARAN on JANUARY 30, 2016 in ASIA TIMES NEWS & FEATURES, INDIA
  India is a cauldron of conflicting content. While womanhood is revered and celebrated, a woman is often tortured, maimed and murdered.

  Quote: A few weeks ago, debutant director, Bikas Ranjan Mishra’s Chauranga (also from Bollywood), came as a powerful indictment of honor killing. A low-caste Dalit teenager, a pig-rearer, makes the fatal mistake of taking a fancy for a schoolgirl, whose land-owning father is an upper caste Hindu. The boy writes a love letter to the girl, and the father happens to read it, and it is Hell after that.
  The boy and his slightly older brother are beaten, and one of them is bludgeoned to death. Mishra, while elaborating the bestiality of it all in his fiction feature inspired by an actual incident in central India, exposes the hypocrisy of the father, who has no qualms, whatsoever, about sleeping with the mother of the boys!

  The problem is not confined to rural areas, and the executions of the killings expose minds that approve of the most brutal violence.
  

  Quote: "Last year, a 20-year-old youth in New Delhi was crushed to death under the wheels of a car, driven by a relative of a 16-year-old girl after an affair between the two young people was discovered. The girl begged her relative to show mercy while he kept running his vehicle over the hapless youth — whose death could have only been painfully torturous.

  Nor is the problem confined to India. Honor killings, also take place in the UK and other locations.

  Quote: A BBC report quoting women’s advocacy groups says 20,000 women are killed for honor worldwide.
  In 2010, the British police recorded 2800-plus incidents of honor crime, which included murder, mutilation and facial disfigurement. Most of these occurred among south-Asian families from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

  Source: http://atimes.com/2016/01/kill-a-child-for-honor-but-how-heinous/
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  11

  Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls-Do the Scrolls Help us Understand Early Christianity?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think most scholarship would agree with a positive answer to that question.

  but let's take a look for oursselves.

  geza vermes, in his excellent translation ( the complete dead sea scrolls in english-penguin.

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  fulltimestudent

  In regard to 1.b. in the first post, we can expand further on leadership. Both early christians and the DDS communities developed a monarchical administration, ( a single leader to each community). There were overseers at Qumran (where the DDS were found) and of course, bishops in the Christian communities.

  Both Christian and DDS communities developed some sort of communal care, funded at Qmran by a religious communism ( all things in common) and similarly in the early days of early Jerusalem Christian community (Acts 2:44-45). Vermes suggests that not having any other model the inexperienced church took the DDS communities as a model.
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  11

  Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls-Do the Scrolls Help us Understand Early Christianity?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think most scholarship would agree with a positive answer to that question.

  but let's take a look for oursselves.

  geza vermes, in his excellent translation ( the complete dead sea scrolls in english-penguin.

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  fulltimestudent

  I think most scholarship would agree with a positive answer to that question. But let's take a look for oursselves.

  Geza Vermes, in his excellent translation ( The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English-Penguin. 2004) suggests that there are three main headings under which the DDS can help us deepen our understanding of early Christianity.

  1.a Similarities of terminolgy. e.g. both in the DDS and the NT, the faithful are called 'sons of light.'

  1.b. Ideology. Both communities thought of themselves as the 'true Israel, both were governed (in theory anyway) by 12 leaders, and expected the imminent arrival of the KIngdom of God.

  1.c. Similar attitudes to the scriptures, both considering their own history as a fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

  Of course, there may not have been any direct influence (though, its hard not to imagine that), but these similarities may have been due to the general religious atmosphere in that era in Palestine.
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  15

  Babylonians Discovered Calculus

  by cofty in

  1. social
  2. current

  it had been assumed that rudimentary calculus was developed in europe in the 14th century but now it turns out that the babylonians worked it out more than 2000 years ago.. researchers have deciphered a detail on a cuneiform tablet held at the british museum and revealed that it describes the movement of jupiter.. babylonians believed that jupiter's position was integral to predicting the weather, the price of goods, and the fluctuating river levels throughout the year.. "the now-decoded 'text a' describes a procedure for calculating jupiter’s displacement across the ecliptic plane.. by tracking jupiter’s speed as a function of time and determining the area under a time-velocity curve.".

  read more here....

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  fulltimestudent

  It's a great discovery, isn't it.?