Today (saturday 20th Feb.) the news is that the Victorian police have been investigating Cardinal Pell for child sex offences committed when he was a priest.
Pell 'vehemently' denies the allegation.
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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Come home Cardinal Pell (song)
by zound inenjoy a catchy protest song imploring catholic cardinal george pell to return to australia to face the royal commission for years of covering up child abuse.
just as the royal commission began uncovering dirt, george pell got 'promoted' and moved from australia to the vatican.
now he is coincidently too 'unwell' to return to australia to face the commission.
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Was Adam "born" Circumsized ?
by RubaDub ini guess we have to assume that jesus was circumcised on the 8th day but what about adam?
he was "perfect", so did he have the weenie cut or not?.
i would like to bring this question up at a "get-together".. rub a dub .
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fulltimestudent
David_Jay : In Judaism, rabbinic custom states that Adam was created circumcised and that all the Jewish male saints had this privilege. However the view is not universal among Jews
Oh! David, that's such a disappointment!
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Prince's recent passport pik!
by fulltimestudent inwell, that's the claim.
is this sexy, or isn't it?
are male witnesses now allowed to wear eye liner?.
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fulltimestudent
sir82 : Generally true, but Michael Jackson did get DF'ed in the 80's
- Back in the day, I was told by an ex-missionary (who maintained links with Brooklyn) that MJ had confessed to screwing a 'girl' on the back seat of his Rolls Royce (grin - I'm trying to imagine the scene), and that it was because MJ wanted out.
- Impossible to verify, of course. But that's the story. In the light of subsequent knowledge it may be difficult to imagine that the story is true. But maybe MJ made it up, because he did want out.
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Prince's recent passport pik!
by fulltimestudent inwell, that's the claim.
is this sexy, or isn't it?
are male witnesses now allowed to wear eye liner?.
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fulltimestudent
Well, that's the claim
Is this sexy, or isn't it? Are male witnesses now allowed to wear eye liner?
I wonder if the elders want to discuss it with him?
If not, can we assume that there are two levels of standards within the YHWH organisation?
Link: https://twitter.com/Prince3EG/status/697809908700303360/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????
by DwainBowman inback in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.
dose anyone else remember this?
i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!
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fulltimestudent
Another aspect of Freddy's "scholarship" has to do with his personal studies. Did he cease all reading of papers by academic scholars?
I've tried to find out whether, either Freddy personally or the library at Brooklyn bethel subscribed to any of the many journals that focus on OT or NT studies, but no one seems to be able to answer that question.
In the many readings that have been assigned for class readings over the past few years, I often experienced "echoes" of WT study articles. That may be purely coincidental, or it may be because Freddy had also read some of those journal articles.
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The really positive thing to come from this thread is that it raises questions about "religious" personalities. Some very strange people populate the centuries of Christian history.
We can start with Jesus himself. Do the popular images have any validity?
Here's a forensic reconstruction of what a typical Galilean may have looked like.
You can find that image in this BBC item:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35120965
More importantly, how did he think? What were his public statements of his ideas really like? Did he sound "noble and distinguished" or was he more like Freddy?
The Gospel records are at least second hand and unlikely to be by anyone who actually knew him.
Then there are all the strange people in Christian history. Have you ever studied the life of St Symeon the stylite. A really strange man, but one who came to exercise enough influence to be able to berate an Emperor.
He lived for most of life on top of a pole, his food passed up to him in a bucket and his body wastes passed down in the same bucket.
There's many more, but I'll save them for another day
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Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????
by DwainBowman inback in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.
dose anyone else remember this?
i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!
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fulltimestudent
There's little doubt that FF was an 'interesting' character.
And before I go to my main point, may I say that my understanding of Freddy's education was that he had studied for the first year in a classics course in some US. university.
However the Wikipedia entry (which of course, may have been edited) notes:
He graduated from Woodward High School in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1911 and attended the University of Cincinnati where he studied liberal arts and later (for two years) Biblical Greek,[1][3] with the intention of becoming a Presbyterian preacher.[2] He learned German and could read Latin and Greek and in later years learned Spanish, Portuguese and French and a basic understanding of Hebrew.[3] His association with the Bible Students began after he read some of the literature of Charles Taze Russell. He was baptized as a Bible Student on either November 30, 1913,[4] or, according to Franz, April 5, 1914.[5]
In 1920 he joined the Watch Tower headquarters staff in Brooklyn, New York[2] and in 1926 became a member of the editorial staff as a Bible researcher and writer for the Society’s publicationsThere is no explanation as to why he dropped out of the course in which he was enrolled. But it seems to have something to do with his interest in Charlie Russell's mob. His years of university study were likely 1912 and 1913, and he was baptised as a Bible Student in 1913 or 1914, which I guess was a critical date in BS thought.
I wonder what he did between his baptism and his joining Brooklyn HQ in 1920?
I've always thought of him as a frustrated Bible scholar, and perhaps his appointment to the WTS editorial staff in 1926 was the culmination of his own dream. But maybe he did have greater ambitions.
I think that he became the 'ghost writer' for Joe Rutherford, and was likely filling an important role in NY Bethel by the 1940's as Knorr was starting his era of authority.
How the partnership of Knorr/Franz developed would be one of the more interesting stories about the WTS.
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Circumcision and Jehovah's Witnesses - a personal account with research
by PrimateDave ini wrote this article to post on this forum because of the pain that i felt at one time.
i know that i can never get any acknowledgment from the watchtower bible and tract society because they could never admit that infant male circumcision is mutilation and abuse.
if for some reason some of you believe with all your heart that circumcision is a good thing, i would request that you read this with an open mind.
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fulltimestudent
Divergence on this issue is interesting.
As I understand it, circumcision is not a standard practise in most European countries.
It is now, not a standard practise in Australia.
Why is there such a strong support for it in the USA? Is it a consequence resulting from the strength of the American Jewish lobby?
Here's a few comments concerning circumcision from an Australian source:
Link to the page: http://www.circinfo.org/news_2015.html#worth
Circumcision “not worth it” for Aussie boys
Circumcision is not appropriate for 21st Century Aussie boys. A definitive article in Australia’s leading child health journal confirms the judgement of Australian paediatricians since 1971 that boys should not be routinely circumcised as a health precaution. In a rebuff to the American Academy of Pediatrics (and by extension the Centers for Disease Control, which repeats its errors) the article endorses the conclusion of the circumcision policy statement issued by the Royal Australasian College of Physicians in 2010, namely, that there is no medical warrant for routine circumcision in the Australian and New Zealand context. As the authors conclude, “There is insufficient scientific evidence to support routine newborn circumcision in Australia …. From medical point of view, the ‘price’ is still too high.”
Further details on the medical authorities statements page
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Circumcision risks and harms outweigh benefits
Yet another hard-hitting critique of the American Centers for Disease Control draft circumcision guidelines finds its conclusions unsupported by the evidence and its recommendations invalid: Brian Earp. Do the benefits of male circumcision outweigh the risks? A critique of the proposed CDC guidelines. Fronters in Pediatrics 3 (18), 21 February 2015
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Circumcision always painful for babies
Circumcision is “one of the most painful procedures a baby can undergo”, and no fully effective anaesthetic method has yet been devised. This is the disturbing conclusion of a paper in the Italian Journal of Pediatrics, which examines the various circumcision and anaesthetic techniques in use and finds none of them satisfactory. The authors note that although “relief of human suffering is one of the most important goals for health care providers”, there have been only half-hearted efforts to eliminate the pain of circumcision, partly because the operation originated as a cultural ritual in which endurance of intense pain was part of the rationale. “Unfortunately, even during clinical trials, babies still undergo circumcision without analgesia, and the continuous production of studies for a better analgesia is the sign that a gold standard has not yet been found”, they write. The authors found that the Mogen clamp was less painful than both the Gomco clamp and the Plastibell, though seem to be unaware that the Mogen caused such a high incidence of additional injuries that a series of lawsuits drove the company out of business. It is increasingly common these days for boys to be given a local anaesthetic with a needle, but if the evidence of many Youtube videos is to be believed, the needle is itself extremely painful and often causes bleeding. EMLA cream, much vaunted by Australian circumcision salesmen, is neither effective nor recommended for use on young babies. As the authors of the present study conclude, “more research is required to find a better analgesic approach, in order to make circumcision a totally painless procedure without stress or discomfort. Present methods do not yet guarantee a total analgesia during this procedure.”
Source: Bellieni CV et al. Analgesia for infants’ circumcision. Italian Journal of Pediatrics 2013 39:38.
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Christians, Pedophilia and the Australian Royal Commission
by fulltimestudent inthe vast majority of christians are not pedophiles and would most likely deplore it.
so why do so many church organisations try to cover it up?.
probably there are two reasons:.
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fulltimestudent
The vast majority of Christians are not pedophiles and would most likely deplore it. So why do so many church organisations try to cover it up?
Probably there are two reasons:
1. Christianity operates on the basis that sins can be forgiven after they are confessed.
An answer to that of course, is that forgiveness by a religious authority does not negate a crime defined by the state. Illustrating that point is the fact that right now in Australia, the vicious killers of two young girls who were given life sentences for their terrible crimes and who have become Christians, while in prison, are requesting parole. They are being supported (quietly) by members of their churches. But most people think that the two crimes were so terrible that they should stay in prison.
2. It gives the religion a bad name.
OK, it may, but as events are demonstrating, a cover up may give the religion an even worse name. The Jws are certainly finding that to be the case.
But so is the Catholic church.
The same Royal Commission that put the witnesses on the spot, is also examining the role of the Church authorities in covering up crimes committed by serving priests. And, perhaps we should remember that in other investigations (in many countries) of the role of the Church leadership in these crimes, they have been clearly exposed as guilty.
The problem is an old one in the church, I'll just give one reference. Look for this book, Fallen Order: A History. by Karen Liebreich. In 1621 Spanish Catholic, Father Jose de Calansanz established the Piarist Order to, "house and educate poor children in Rome." I'll let you work out the rest.
So let's come back to good old Aussie. A key figure in the Australian branch of the Catholic Church, has been a man by the name of George Pell, now by God's Grace (really ????) Cardinal George Pell.
There are many accusations that Pell was involved in browbeating abused Catholics into silence and protecting priests accused of Paedophilia. (there are also accusations that he did more than cover-up, but they are so far 'not proved').
As the scandals of church cover-ups started to grow, Pell was fortuitously transferred from Sydney to Rome. And now when the Australian Royal Commission wants to interview him, guess what? - Pell is too sick to travel.
So an Aussie singer-songwriter has recorded this song, "Come home Cardinal Pell," that is already causing some controversy in OZ. In the last few words of the song, Tim Minchin (the singer) invites Pell to come home and sue him for slander.
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Unhappy Valentine's day - so a wild elephant expresses his feelings by damaging 15 cars in China
by fulltimestudent inthere are still wild elephants in china, and this one lives in yunnan province in south china (bordering myanmar).. the wild life department that monitors the elephants says that he'd recently been in a fight with another male elephant over when both wanted to mate with a female elephant.
on the valentine day weekend, this elephant found himself on a main road, and took out his feelings on 15 helpless cars.. however another version of the story states that the elephant was a female.. so ... ?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mycvrrhtq0e.
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fulltimestudent
And across the border in Myanmar, the problem may even be worse. According to this New York Times item, changes in the timber industry have made elephants redundant. And the country has a massive problem with elephant unemployment.
Quote:
"Shrinking forests and a law enacted three years ago that prohibits the export of raw timber have saddled Myanmar with an elephant unemployment crisis. Hundreds of elephants have been thrown out of work, and many are not handling it well.
“They become angry a lot more easily,” U Chit Sein, 64, whose eight logging elephants now work only a few days a month. “There is no work, so they are getting fat. And all the males want to do is have sex all the time.”
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Unhappy Valentine's day - so a wild elephant expresses his feelings by damaging 15 cars in China
by fulltimestudent inthere are still wild elephants in china, and this one lives in yunnan province in south china (bordering myanmar).. the wild life department that monitors the elephants says that he'd recently been in a fight with another male elephant over when both wanted to mate with a female elephant.
on the valentine day weekend, this elephant found himself on a main road, and took out his feelings on 15 helpless cars.. however another version of the story states that the elephant was a female.. so ... ?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mycvrrhtq0e.
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fulltimestudent
Apparently this elephant has caused more trouble, this video published in Australia's Canberra Times says he's played up three times.
