Posts by fulltimestudent

13

The changing world - The Chinese in the west.

by fulltimestudent in

i was hosing the garden at the front of our apartments earlier this morning, and this large gang (20-30 people) of elderly chinese went past, picking up rubbish in the street.

it suddenly clicked that this was 'clean-up australia' day.

what interested me was the involvement of this group of elderly chinese, and i assume that this is likely happening across sydney in all the many suburbs that have become 'chinese' in the last 35 years.

fulltimestudent

joey jojo : Many Chinese families can trace their heritage back to the day's of the Australian gold rushes which means they were here long before many European families.

Joey, I'm not sure how deep your interest is in the this topic. But you may find Eric Roll's ( a dinky di Aussie) books informative. Most particularly his, "Sojourners: Flowers and the Wide Sea." In that book, Rolls demonstrates that Chineselikely 'discovered' Australia long before the Dutch or the Brits. Chinese ships had been sailing around the Indonesian archipelago for centuries, so it is extremely unlikely that they never reached our northern shores.

And, as you say, the discovery of gold in Australia, brought many Chinese to the goldfields (among the many other nationalities. On the evidence presented in Eric Roll' books , the Chinese however were the best organised. They brought with them seeds, seedlings, and baby pigs, and within weeks of arriving on a goldfield they were producing their own food. They were meticulous in finding alluvial gold. The European and American diggers were only interested in finding nuggets, but the Chinese dug over inch of their claims and washed the soil and found lots of smaller pieces. It was likely that meticulous technique that caused 'western' miners to be jealous of the Chinese and caused some of the unrest such as the Lambing Flats riots.

A JW connection to that time:

A one-time Circuit overseer, by the name of Farleigh James, was a descendent of one of those nineteenth century Chinese miners. His grandfather (I think) by the name of Hung Fee (from south China) discovered some gold in the area around Bright in Victoria, bought a small inn in Bright and married a half Chinese girl from Bendigo. Their descendents, who anglicised their names to Humphrey, still live in the Wangaratta area. My good XJW friend was married to his daughter, but was divorced by his wife, when he was disfellowshipped.

8

How the Churches got the ‘End of the World’ wrong in 1492.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in 1453 constantinople (also known as byzantium), the last remnant of the once mighty roman empire was a christian island in an islamic sea.

the city had been seriously weakened during the holy fourth crusade (1202-04), when fellow christians of the catholic brand had besieged the city, captured it, and savagely sacked it.. ( who needs enemies when you have christian friends?).

a miniature of the siege, artist unknown.

fulltimestudent

Why did they get it wrong? It can be suggested that they read, but do not understand.

They could read in Luke 21 of the signs (of the end), just as we did. But they (and us) failed to read carefully.

Read it again (from the New Jerusalem Bible)

25 'There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; on earth nations in agony, bewildered by the turmoil of the ocean and its waves;
26 men fainting away with terror and fear at what menaces the world, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 When these things begin to take place, stand erect, hold your heads high, because your liberation is near at hand.'
29 And he told them a parable, 'Look at the fig tree and indeed every tree.
30 As soon as you see them bud, you can see for yourselves that summer is now near.
31 So with you when you see these things happening: know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 In truth I tell you, before this generation has passed away all will have taken place.

This prophesy, made by Jesus failed. He imagined that he was about to fulfill the messianic prophesies and free Israel from the yoke of unbelievers. He was deluded, and paid the penalty with his life,

If there is ever an end to the world, it will not be as a result of Jesus prophecy.

8

How the Churches got the ‘End of the World’ wrong in 1492.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in 1453 constantinople (also known as byzantium), the last remnant of the once mighty roman empire was a christian island in an islamic sea.

the city had been seriously weakened during the holy fourth crusade (1202-04), when fellow christians of the catholic brand had besieged the city, captured it, and savagely sacked it.. ( who needs enemies when you have christian friends?).

a miniature of the siege, artist unknown.

fulltimestudent

In 1453 Constantinople (also known as Byzantium), the last remnant of the once mighty Roman Empire was a Christian Island in an Islamic sea. The city had been seriously weakened during the holy Fourth Crusade (1202-04), when fellow Christians of the Catholic brand had besieged the city, captured it, and savagely sacked it.

( Who needs enemies when you have Christian friends?)

A miniature of the siege, Artist unknown. (from Wikimedia)

During the next 200 years, Constantinople hung on. Pleas for assistance to the Royal courts of Europe went unheeded and finally in 1453, Islamic armies were triumphant. When the news reached Rome, Christians cried in the streets. And, in Russia, where Orthodox Christianity also prevailed it was seen as marking the imminent end of the world.

Modern representation of the 21 year old Muslim General Mehmed II and the Ottoman Army approaching Constantinople with a giant CANNON, by Fausto Zonaro

There were long-standing Orthodox prophecies that predicted the return of Jesus and the last judgement at the start of the eighth millennium. Based on the Byzantine calendar that was also used in Russia, it all seemed be crystal clear.

Based on their Biblical understanding, that creation occurred 5508 years before Christ, it was calculated that the return of Jesus and the Last Judgement would occur on September 1, 1492.

(Not so different to Freddy's effort is it)

And like Freddy's effort, the end did not come. Why?

13

The changing world - The Chinese in the west.

by fulltimestudent in

i was hosing the garden at the front of our apartments earlier this morning, and this large gang (20-30 people) of elderly chinese went past, picking up rubbish in the street.

it suddenly clicked that this was 'clean-up australia' day.

what interested me was the involvement of this group of elderly chinese, and i assume that this is likely happening across sydney in all the many suburbs that have become 'chinese' in the last 35 years.

fulltimestudent

karter : F.T.S seems you have done your homework well. The fact that the Chinese are investing in N.Z flat out has an up and a down side.

karter, its not too hard to find information these days. The web holds an enormous amount of information already. Ten minutes will usually allow you to check whether what you are thinking is well-founded or not.

The Australian problem (which may or may not be similar to the NZ situation ) is that Australians could never provide enough capital to cover development of the country. Originally, in the British heyday, the Brits provided the money needed for Australian development. But a day came after WW1, but more particularly after WW2, when the Brits were broke.

I'm old enough to remember the fuss in Australia, when British assets were sold to American companies. These days most profitable Australian brands (like Kraft, Arnotts etc) are in American hands. Doesn't make much difference at a daily life level to Australians, does it? I once worked for a large company that pioneered commercial refrigeration in Aust. (under the brand name Amatice). When WW2 came, some government bright spark said to the company, you must make ambulances for the army - so they did. Somewhere in the govt. bureaucracy some public servant noted that local refrigeration manufacture had ceased. I guess memo's got passed around and eventually an American company, Kelvinator, was invited to set up a factory in Australia. By the end of the war, Kelvinator was well established and Amatice never got back the market it used to have.

The Japanese were buying lots of things in the 1970's and 1980's and ruffling American feathers ( do you remember the movie, Rising Sun with Sean Connery?). Wonder just how that trend had the brakes put on it?

BTW, Wherever I've been in China, I can always find a McDonalds, or a KFC or a Starbucks. All the top American Hotel brands are there. China is America's General Motors largest marker in the world. That is they sell more cars in China than in the USA.

http://media.gm.com/media/cn/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/cn/en/2015/Oct/1012_sales.html

and take 90 seconds out of your busy life and watch this video, which tells of the local spin-offs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qQAeWDUaw

Did you know that under the Free Trade Agreement recently concluded between Australian and China, most Australian businesses are free to go and open a business in China. Medical services and Old Age care are among the business types particularly encouraged. I wonder how many Aussies are going to take the risk?

13

The changing world - The Chinese in the west.

by fulltimestudent in

i was hosing the garden at the front of our apartments earlier this morning, and this large gang (20-30 people) of elderly chinese went past, picking up rubbish in the street.

it suddenly clicked that this was 'clean-up australia' day.

what interested me was the involvement of this group of elderly chinese, and i assume that this is likely happening across sydney in all the many suburbs that have become 'chinese' in the last 35 years.

fulltimestudent

karter : here in NZ the Chinese will take us over with out letting off a round .
They are buying everything they can,Setting up their own dairy factory's making milk formula to send back home.

There are two ways to look at this Karter, one is the way expressed above. The other way is illustrated by the sale of a New Zealand owned Australian Company to a privately owned Australian registered company, owned by a Chinese citizen.

Complicated isn't it?

The company, the Van Dieman Land company owns 25 large dairy farms in Tasmania. The last owner was New Plymouth Municipality in New Zealand (that sounds like socialism, doesn't it? But NZ does have a lot of co-operatives - just like China).

I'm guessing that the sale was prompted by the fact that Van Dieman Land made a loss of $8,000,000 in 2013, so the New Plymouth Municipality must have decided to sell. The largest offer for VDL, came from Moon Lake Investments, owned as described above. The second biggest bidder asked the Aussie government to prevent the sale, the Aust. govt responded that VDL had been started by foreigners ( a group of London merchants) and had always been in foreign hands.

But, would it have been right for the Aust. government to prevent the NZ owners making the extra money that Moon Lake offered, and made them accept less money?

The new owners plan to invest $100 million in new facilities, money that the former NZ owners apparently did not plan to spend. So in different ways Australia will be better off, as suppliers, builders, engineers etc receive orders for their goods and services as that one hundred million is spent.

Another perspective. One of NZ's largest dairy companies - Fonterra, is a part owner of Shijiahuang Sanli, a large Chinese milk product supplier. Presumably that places Fonterra in a position to benefit when their share of Chinese profits are repatriated to NZ. Do you want to say that is a bad thing?

New Zealand has a population of less than 5,000,000. China now has (I calculate) about 600 million people whose lives approximate our western lives. Their diet converges toward ours. Think about that 600 million. It equates to having a market equal to two USAs.

There is not enough dairy farmland in NZ (or, Australia) to provide dairy products for that sized population. And there are more customers coming, as China continues to urbanise, whether in cities or large towns with population of 500,000. The Chinese government is planning to totally eliminate rural poverty by 2025. Not too far in the future, NZ dairy farmers will have access to a market not of 600 million but of 1300 million.

But you will have competitors, one of the largest dairy farms in the world is being built in the steppes area of North China. Chinese businessmen are working in joint ventures with Russian businessmen planning similar projects across Russia ( a move placed on fast forward when Europe decided to ban the exports of dairy products to Russia over the Ukraine problems).

In the meantime, large and small businesses in NZ will benefit from the $210 million that Yashili International Holdings (I presume that's the project) is planning to spend in building the new dairy processing plant mentioned in your above post.

BTW, if my information is correct, a part owner in Yashili International Holdings, is an American owned company, Carlyle Group.

Globalisation is complex, is it not?

13

The changing world - The Chinese in the west.

by fulltimestudent in

i was hosing the garden at the front of our apartments earlier this morning, and this large gang (20-30 people) of elderly chinese went past, picking up rubbish in the street.

it suddenly clicked that this was 'clean-up australia' day.

what interested me was the involvement of this group of elderly chinese, and i assume that this is likely happening across sydney in all the many suburbs that have become 'chinese' in the last 35 years.

fulltimestudent

I was hosing the garden at the front of our apartments earlier this morning, and this large gang (20-30 people) of elderly Chinese went past, picking up rubbish in the street. It suddenly clicked that this was 'clean-up Australia' day.

What interested me was the involvement of this group of elderly Chinese, and I assume that this is likely happening across Sydney in all the many suburbs that have become 'Chinese' in the last 35 years. And, its that 'sinification' that is one of my many interests.

The USA now has (it is said) some three million Chinese from PRC China. This is one of the most intriguing social trends that I have ever seen (or, read of) and its happening when young Chinese who go 'west' for their education are increasingly returning to China (about 80% I believe) , but perhaps leaving an apartment behind as an investment.

It was Jan. 29, 1979 when USA President Jimmy Carter and the Chinese leader (without much in the way of titles) signed an accord. One of the points in the accord was that Chinese would be free to leave China, and its said that when this point was discussed, and Carter stated the point, Deng responded by asking, "Mr President, How many Chinese do you think you want?" If Carter answered it does not seem to have been recorded.

The suburb where I live is not quite fully "Chinese," but far more than in 1999 when I moved here. Now nearly all the shops (but not the large supermarkets) are owned by Chinese. There are times when the only people on the shopping streets are Chinese. There are some 17 shops selling Chinese groceries. and near as many specialising in selling Australian products to Chinese tourists. Interesting isn't it?

I was sent to a specialist dentist last week in Hurstville, a suburb I know well from my childhood. It was very "British" in those days. But now, the dentist was Chinese, the surgery was staffed by Chinese. Nearly every street front shop is Chinese, and most of the people on the street are Chinese.

I count about 10 suburbs in Sydney that are now Chinese, and in all of these construction development companies from China (with local government approval) are building large tower blocks. At a rough count I think about 1000 new apartments will come on the market in 7 to 10 floor projects in my suburb.

In neighbouring Burwood, the apartment blocks are even larger and taller. Cant estimate the number of new apartments there. Sales offices, from desks in shopping centres to very large shop fronts staffed by Chinese, seem to be everywhere. Non-resident Chinese are allowed to buy new apartments (only), and they seem to be sold out in many cases.

Last night, the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Parade was held in Sydney (I didn't go - but both the Prime Minister and the federal leader of the opposition did). My gayxjw friend did go to watch (he did not go into the parade - he isn't quite up to baring his torso these days.) He called this morning and told me that there were lots of Asians watching including many older ones who may may have been tourists looking for a bit of local color.

Asians have different cultural sensitivies, once in the mountains to Sydney's west, I watched a group of Chinese ladies looking at some bronze statues of native Australians (no live ones left in that area) The statues (correctly) were naked, and these mature ladies were having great fun photographing each other rubbing the genitals of the statues, they were not the first, because the said genitals shone with the bright finish of polished bronze..

Just some random thoughts.

11

Why is the Bible silent about the real Israel/Egyptian connections?

by fulltimestudent in

the bible does connect egypt and israel (including judah), but does not tell the truth about the connection.. an exhibition at the israel museum tells a clearer story.. it tells of two periods of connection;.

the first connection around 1800 to 1550 bce when canaanites settled in the eastern section of the nile river delta.

it seems this is the era that saw the development of stories like the joseph story and the mose's story.

fulltimestudent

An ancient burial ground, discovered in 2013, and located near Bethlehem is providing further evidence of the Egyptian connection to Palestine. It seems to have been in use between 2200 BCE and 650 BCE.

Following is a quotation from a recent LiveScience story on this archaeological project:

Another intriguing tomb contained two Egyptian-like amulets, known as scarabs, which were mounted on rings made of bronze or gold. It’s possible that, rather than being imported from Egypt, the scarabs were made locally.
The scarabs date to the 13th dynasty of Egypt (1802 B.C. to 1640 B.C.), Nigro said. One of the scarabs contains a series of circular decorations, while the other has swirling designs and what appears to be hieroglyphic writing. Two of the hieroglyphic symbols are written within an oval circle known as a cartouche. The Egyptians often wrote royal names in cartouches, and archaeologists are studying the scarabs for these types of details.
Egyptian scarabs have been found at many other sites in the eastern Mediterranean. Ancient records say the Egyptians were very active in the region, trading for goods and, at times, conquering territory.

http://www.livescience.com/53939-ancient-burial-ground-found-near-bethlehem.html

11

Why is the Bible silent about the real Israel/Egyptian connections?

by fulltimestudent in

the bible does connect egypt and israel (including judah), but does not tell the truth about the connection.. an exhibition at the israel museum tells a clearer story.. it tells of two periods of connection;.

the first connection around 1800 to 1550 bce when canaanites settled in the eastern section of the nile river delta.

it seems this is the era that saw the development of stories like the joseph story and the mose's story.

fulltimestudent

Thanks for posting your thoughts, Half Banana.

I agree with you, that the subjection of Israel to the surrounding Imperial powers of Egypt, Babylonia, Iran (Persia) Greece, and eventually Rome, was a key point in the development of Judaism.

Succinctly, it was a religion for losers.

Israelites/Jews seldom had independence. Their god YHWH, was seldom able to defeat the Gods of surrounding nations. It climaxed in 70 CE with the destruction of YHWH's holy city of Jerusalem, by the Romans who worshipped other Gods.

78

Animals were created without needing Toilet Paper ... but not Man ... Why???

by RubaDub in

my dog and other pets do their "business" and run away and are happy.. man does not have that luxury.

any thoughts on why animals were created with the "poop and go" capacity while man has to go through more steps?

was this perhaps an additional issue that god added on when adam and eve sinned (such as eve having significant more birth pains)?

fulltimestudent

Village Idiot : fulltimestudent, I'm sorry but I can only give you one like.

Don't praise me brother, it only encourages me'

But, hey, I can do better (grin)... like this pik showing, "how to do it the Roman way."

And a more 'academic' discussion at this link:

http://flavias.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/ten-things-romans-used-for-toilet-paper.html

But the 'sponge on a stick' could have other uses. Think how desperate a person would have to be to end his life this way.

This historian cites Seneca as a source for the story:

Nay, men of the meanest lot in life have by a mighty impulse escaped to safety, and when they were not allowed to die at their own convenience, or to suit themselves in their choice of the instruments of death, they have snatched up whatever was lying ready to hand, and by sheer strength have turned objects which were by nature harmless into weapons of their own. For example, there was lately in a training-school for wild-beast gladiators a German, who was making ready for the morning exhibition; he withdrew in order to relieve himself, – the only thing which he was allowed to do in secret and without the presence of a guard. While so engaged, he seized the stick of wood, tipped with a sponge, which was devoted to the vilest uses, and stuffed it, just as it was, down his throat; thus he blocked up his windpipe, and choked the breath from his body. That was truly to insult death!

Link: http://www.thehistoryblog.com/

Pottery discs were also used (or, is it a pebble), as in this vase illustration:

Of some interest , is the claim by that same historian that the Chinese (remember they invented paper) were using it to wipe their bottoms as early as the 2nd Century BCE

78

Animals were created without needing Toilet Paper ... but not Man ... Why???

by RubaDub in

my dog and other pets do their "business" and run away and are happy.. man does not have that luxury.

any thoughts on why animals were created with the "poop and go" capacity while man has to go through more steps?

was this perhaps an additional issue that god added on when adam and eve sinned (such as eve having significant more birth pains)?

fulltimestudent

A moments thought will tell us that for most of the time (99% ?) throughout history humans defecated like animals.

Some still do! This BBC documentary states that 70% of Indians (i.e. from India) still defecate in the open.

The use of sewerage and toilets came late in the historical annals. Here's a pik of a Roman public toilet (very few people had private ones).

They loved to have a chat with their mates while they defecated. And no paper in the west until hundreds of years later, so how did they wipe. Notice the gutter in front, it contained water, and some used brushes, others shells and others pottery shards. These items could be rinsed off after use.

And of course in Europe bidets are popular - no need for paper, and in many places (in China) there's a hose pipe (with tap) and you can hose your bum down. That's quite hygienic. Best to have a slim build though.

My most interesting "defecation" experience, was in an old toilet in an old village in China. It consisted of a trench running around the walls of the building (placed about 400 mm from the external walls). The trench had an slope to an outlet, and running water from the start point to wash the "remains" out. In use everyone straddles the trench and let's rip (and some do let rip with sound affects). If it interests you, you get a fine view of the guy in front of you.

You'll get the idea from this pik.

But you still need paper - in those areas its advisable to carry your own.