Posts by fulltimestudent

11

Do JWs think Jesus was a liar or just a fool?

by TTWSYF in

not alot of love or respect for jesus, his apostles or his church from the jws.

.

did he build his church on sand or have fools in charge that couldn't get out of their own way?.

fulltimestudent

TTWSYF : Not a lot of love or respect for Jesus, his apostles or HIS church from the JWs.
Did he build His church on sand or have fools in charge that couldn't get out of their own way?

There's another perspective.

That Jesus, under the influence of his deluded mother, was the of a long line of people to suffer the same delusion.

As for 'fools in charge,' may I respectfully draw your attention to later Christians who thought it was a 'wise' way of spending your life, to live up a tree, like these guys:

They were known as Dendrites:

During the 4th century, from Upper Egypt to Syria, Palestine, and Arabia, various groups of ascetics formed around an abba, or “father” (from which “abbot” derives). In Syria, some monks went naked and in chains, lived on tall pillars (Stylites); nested in the branches of trees (Dendrites), or foraged in the woods like wild animals (Graziers).
http://www.myss.com/library/religions/christianity/18_mystics.asp

dendrite

who may be Bishop Paul of Qanetos

A fascinating paper on the Dendrites is: Kyle Smith “Dendrites and Other Standers in the ‘History of the Exploits of Bishop Paul of Qanetos and Priest John of Edessa’”
“Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies”, Vol. 12.1, 117-134:http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol12No1/HV12N1Smith.pdf

“This paper summarizes evidence for tree-dwelling monks in late antiquity and outlines a little-known, fifth-century hagiography that has a peculiar focus on trees: the “History of the Exploits of Bishop Paul of Qanetos and Priest John of Edessa. In the text, there is an encounter with a long-bearded dendrite living in a mountaintop tree and a duel with an Arabian tree-god. An edition of the text—along with an introduction and an annotated translation by Hans Arneson, Christine Luckritz-Marquis, and Kyle Smith—is in preparation.”

Then there were the stylites:

The first was probably Simeon Stylites the Elder, Who got up on top of a pillar sometime in 423 CE and stayed there until his death 37 years later. He used to a bucket to haul his food and water up, and then used the bucket to pass the waste down after it had passed through his system.

Here he's represented (on the left) showing off his ulcerated leg, and on the right is a later imitator.

Would you like me to go on with further examples of Christian ratbaggery ?

We were of course, ALL deluded into making some sort of sacrifice of aspects of our lives. For my own part, I held close in mind this text, and I used to pray that I could be as faithful as the examples held out in Hebrews 11:36-38:

…36and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.…

What bloody fools we were.

33

Disturbing/Puzzling Skit at JW Function Last Night Plus Odd Choice of Music

by Cadellin in

so i attended a fairly large jw gathering last night with my active, elder husband.

it was a good-by party for a former special pioneer couple who have been demoted to reg pios and have now moved to a larger city to find work.

anyway, there was music and skits.

fulltimestudent

Magnum: "One of them was probably the most well-known JW in my area - a smart, always sharply dressed, high-class business owner who was a very influential JW. He totally believed the 1975 stuff and told my unbelieving dad I would never finish high school ..."

Sad, isn't it. But at least that old guy had enough money put aside to afford the extra cost of nursing home with facilities for dementia patients.

Lots of witnesses may not have the funds to do that.

And, I was just thinking the other day, in another nine years, 1975 will be 50 years in the past. And the YHWH/JESUS combo show no signs of bringing the kingdom.

Maybe they need waking up. To paraphrase 1 Kings 18, where Elijah taunts the Baal priests:

27 "At noon Elijah began to make fun of them. “Pray louder!” he said. “If YHWH/JESUS really are gods, maybe they are thinking, or busy, or traveling! Maybe they are sleeping so you will have to wake them!” 28 The witnesses prayed louder, cutting themselves with swords until their blood flowed, which was the way they worshiped. 29 The afternoon passed, and the prophets continued to act like this until it was time for the evening sacrifice. But no voice was heard; YHWH/JESUS did not answer, and no one paid attention."

54

Premarital sex--how prevalent?

by wafflesandpancakes in

in my old congregation, everyone seems clean.

mostly chaste courtship, kingdom hall wedding, blah blah.. well there are lots of cases of fondling but they were soon forgotton.

when my husband and i confessed to sex before marriage, the elders were disgusted.

fulltimestudent

myguel.pt :@Lostwun: I don't want support, I'm just feeling bad as I was psychologically forced to marry really young, as I had sex tendencies because of the Org. if I could do whatever I would like, I wouldn't be married now, or is I would, it would be with someone more compatible with me.
@ttdtt do you think I should confess? I will be Df as soon as I open my mouth

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are you worried about myguel pt? As you describe your situation, your wife does not (or, perhaps is incapable of) paying her marriage dues. Now Lostwun thinks you should just be a good little Christian and suffer through this experience until you die.

In truth, you and her (your wife) are both victims of ratbag Christianity, because the JW rules on sex are part and parcel of Christianity. You married young in an attempt to conform to stupid Christian rules. So now how can you resolve your situation.

First, it may be suggested, you need to consider your attitude to Christianity. Do you wish to conform to Christian rules? They are not universal rules, in non-Christian sections of the world, other rules and ideas apply. If you want to conform to Christianity, you'll have to resolve the situation you are in? Probably it means a divorce, which will bring you into conflict with the JW branch of Christianity.

In reality, your situation is not uncommon. It is fairly common for one partner to be not so interested in sex, and the fact that Christian rules do no allow experimentation before marriage,(so that you may both know your own and your prospective partner''s sexual interests) makes it difficult for people to know whether they are well-matched sexually before they marry.

If you really do not give a stuff about Jesus and the stupidity attached to his name, and if your wife (who may really be more practical than you are thinking) and you are happy to share a home, then you could consider continuing as you are. In that case, no point to feel bad. Just remember Christianity is not a practical religion.

30

My mother has nervous breakdown because we missed the memorial.

by cookiemaster in

my parents insisted that i'd take them to the memorial.

my cousin said he'd come too and another brother who doesn't have a car begged to join.

i was dreading having to go through exactly the same thing again.

fulltimestudent

There is, or mused to be, a certain procedure to follow if inadvertently someone missed being at the "correct" (WT ordained) time/place memorial.

I've forgotten the details, and choose not to attempt to recall any more information.

2

Thanks to the process of digitising you can closely examine a 3000 year old Chinese oracle bone

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

quote: "cambridge university library, which is celebrating its 600th anniversary this year, holds 614 chinese inscribed oracle bones in its collection.

they are the oldest extant documents written in the chinese language, dating from 1339-1112 bce.

inscribed on ox shoulder blades and the flat under-part of turtle shells, they record questions to which answers were sought by divination at the court of the royal house of shang, which ruled north central china at that time.. the inscriptions on the bones provide much insight into many aspects of early chinese society, such as warfare, agriculture, hunting, medical problems, meteorology and astronomy.. among the latter is a record of a lunar eclipse dated to 1192 bce, one of the earliest such accounts in any civilisation.".

fulltimestudent

China was not the only culture to attempt to divine the future through such a process.

The wikipedia entry, dealing with these objects seems fairly accurate (at least to the extent that we presently understand it), and says in part:

"While the use of bones in divination has been practiced almost globally, such divination involving fire or heat has generally been found in Asia and the Asian-derived North American cultures.[36] The use of heat to crack scapulae (pyro-scapulimancy) originated in ancient China, the earliest evidence of which extends back to the 4th millennium BCE, with archaeological finds from Liaoning, but these were not inscribed.[37] In Neolithic China at a variety of sites, the scapulae of cattle, sheep, pigs and deer used in pyromancy have been found,[38] and the practice appears to have become quite common by the end of the third millennium BCE. Scapulae were unearthed along with smaller numbers of pitless plastrons in the Nánguānwài (南關外) stage at Zhengzhou, Henan; scapulae as well as smaller numbers of plastrons with chiseled pits were also discovered in the Lower and Upper Erligang stages.[39]

David Keightley's books may also be helpful:

Keightley, David N. (1978). Sources of Shang history : the oracle-bone inscriptions of Bronze Age China. Berkeley: University of California Press. ISBN 0-520-02969-0.; Paperback 2nd edition (1985) ISBN 0-520-05455-5.
Keightley, David N. (2000). The ancestral landscape: time, space, and community in late Shang China, ca. 1200-1045 B.C (2nd print. ed.). Berkeley: University of California, Berkeley. ISBN 1-55729-070-9.

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone

2

Thanks to the process of digitising you can closely examine a 3000 year old Chinese oracle bone

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

quote: "cambridge university library, which is celebrating its 600th anniversary this year, holds 614 chinese inscribed oracle bones in its collection.

they are the oldest extant documents written in the chinese language, dating from 1339-1112 bce.

inscribed on ox shoulder blades and the flat under-part of turtle shells, they record questions to which answers were sought by divination at the court of the royal house of shang, which ruled north central china at that time.. the inscriptions on the bones provide much insight into many aspects of early chinese society, such as warfare, agriculture, hunting, medical problems, meteorology and astronomy.. among the latter is a record of a lunar eclipse dated to 1192 bce, one of the earliest such accounts in any civilisation.".

fulltimestudent

Quote: "Cambridge University Library, which is celebrating its 600th anniversary this year, holds 614 Chinese inscribed oracle bones in its collection. They are the oldest extant documents written in the Chinese language, dating from 1339-1112 BCE. Inscribed on ox shoulder blades and the flat under-part of turtle shells, they record questions to which answers were sought by divination at the court of the royal house of Shang, which ruled north central China at that time.

The inscriptions on the bones provide much insight into many aspects of early Chinese society, such as warfare, agriculture, hunting, medical problems, meteorology and astronomy.

Among the latter is a record of a lunar eclipse dated to 1192 BCE, one of the earliest such accounts in any civilisation."

With a bit of luck this next reference may bring a copy of the digitised image to this thread. If it doesnt, you can access it from the main link above.

https://skfb.ly/JzSD

So you'll have to click on the link (just above) to access the image. Then you can have a play with it, turn it over, zoom in close.

The side bar carries this information.

The oracle bone texts are the oldest extant documents written in the Chinese language. Inscribed on ox shoulder-blades and the flat under-part of turtle shells, they record questions to which answers were sought by divination at the court of the royal house of Shang 商, which ruled central China between the 16th and 11th centuries B.C.E. For further information follow these links http://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-CUL-00001-00155/5 http://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/mulu/bones.html

29

Is this a site controlled by atheists?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

under the exterior of being an ex- witness site, is this site simply converting atheism?.

i pose the question, because many come here in distress and insecurity with the realization that the w.t is wrong but still retain a belief in god.

my personal opinion is the threads on god are not challenged by an atheists personal animosity to believers, they are challenged and become confrontational because the atheist wants an elaboration and factual proof to a believers faith.. is this unreasonable?

fulltimestudent

Something like atheism is the logical end of the process of questioning that starts when someone intelligent leaves the witnesses.

29

Watchtower is cashing in on China

by nakanozzi in

japanese brother in china recently revealed thatmany wealthy chinese are interested in watchtower’s teaching and donating money.ex-cos and ex-district os are now preaching undercover in china,and, numberes of special pioneers in china are growing !

fulltimestudent

Interesting thread.

I've been visiting China nearly every year since 2001. In addition I read the English editions of Chinese newspapers nearly every day, and I try to do in-depth studies of academic material that examine various issues.

These are my thoughts on various comments I've read lately, both on this thread and a couple of other recent topics.

many wealthy Chinese are interested in Watchtower’s teaching and donating money.

Well, maybe! Many wealthy Chinese also are interested in Tibetan Buddhism and donate money, (There are many Tibetan Buddhist temples in China proper - for example there are perhaps 50 - some large, some small - on Mt Wutai, not far from Beijing, and also 7 or so in Chengde, a former Royal holiday area for Emperors). That doesn't mean that Tibetan Buddhism is going to sweep China and Tibetan Buddhism is going to have tens of millions of converts.

The Catholic church has had missions in China for more than 400 years, and is the largest Christian church in China. If any church has money, the Catholic church has money. There are many Catholic churches open every day, and plenty of Sunday services. There's a big cathedral open about ten minutes walk from the Forbidden city and the Chinese National Parliament. Some Catholic families go back for generations. It doesn't mean that half of China will convert,

A sober estimate of all Christians in China is 20-30 million. Of course, some will claim more than that. But, then missionaries (of all sects) always seem to exaggerate the numbers that convert.

"...I smuggled literature from Hk to Beijing. Met the underground foreign group...It was growing back then so can imagine it is growing now. Flag Dislike Like"

and
"I smuggle much literature, when I travel to china years before."

What happens to all the literature produced in ALL the world? Most of it finishes up in the rubbish. I do not see China being an exception.

(and dangerous! think of what has been happening in Tibet since the Chinese takeover)

Tibet has been part of China, off and on, for centuries. It has certainly been part of China since the mid 17th Century. The leader who set the Manchu's (the Qing dynasty on the road to power entitled the Dalai Leader to be the Temporal ruler of Tibet, as long as he submitted to the Manchu's. When the Manchu's (the Qing dynasty) abdicated, Tibet stayed part of China.

7

15 Year Old Mormon Girl Tortured For Being Gay

by cofty in

alex cooper, a former mormon, offers a terrifying account of being held hostage for eight months in an unlicensed “residential treatment program” modeled on the many “therapeutic” boot camps scattered across utah.. at the mormon run “treatment center” alex was physically and verbally abused.

many days she was forced to stand facing a wall wearing a heavy backpack full of rocks.

she developed sores on her shoulders and cramps in her back.

fulltimestudent

If Jesus can murder you for not accepting him as 'Lord', and then 'feed you to the vultures' (Revelation19: 11-21) what's wrong with a bit of torture to 'knock some sense into your head'?

At its heart, Christianity is a violent religion.

The above incident is not uncommon.

October 16, 2015 - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34553332

23

Interesting article about the evidence of the Jewish Exodus

by cappytan in

jw
friends

the reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the jews were ever enslaved in egypt.

yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source.

i'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources.

fulltimestudent

The bible attempts to make the Israelites/Jews look important. They were a bit like the North Koreans of contemporary times, who are always trying to make themselves look powerful.

Why were the Jews doing that? Its because they claimed that their YHWH was the only true god and all the other gods of the nations were nothing. Think of the message in the Elijah and the Baal priests story.

The message behind the exodus story, is that YHWH is so powerful, that the then mightiest nation in that world era, was no match for YHWH's strength and power.

For most past events in 'real' history, there is some corroborating evidence that something happened. There is nothing in 'real' history to corroborate this bit of puffery.

It's all 'piss and wind.' As is the WTS's attempts to prove its true. The WTS's argument is to say that the bible has 'true' history, but the Egyptian record is not true.

Read it for yourself (See the Aid book, pp 540-548).

And, keep thinking about why the OT does not mention that Egypt also ruled Palestine for long periods, with Egyptian armies often supporting their local satrap?

See:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5711077341921280/why-bible-silent-about-real-israel-egyptian-connections