Posts by fulltimestudent

9

Pity the poor Bible believers - Australian Native People left Africa over 70,000 years ago

by fulltimestudent in

many bible believers accept the genesis documents explanations of human origins.

but the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.. increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.. three papers published in the scientific journal nature demonstrate the point:.

1. the ancestors of australia aboriginal and papuan peoples left africa around 72,000 years ago.. 2. they arrived in the geological locations we now identify as australia and papua around 50,000 years ago.

fulltimestudent

In this video from the Natural History Museum of Denmark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kbRxSzDE4k

Professor Eske Willerslev discusses the conclusions of the studies.

9

Pity the poor Bible believers - Australian Native People left Africa over 70,000 years ago

by fulltimestudent in

many bible believers accept the genesis documents explanations of human origins.

but the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.. increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.. three papers published in the scientific journal nature demonstrate the point:.

1. the ancestors of australia aboriginal and papuan peoples left africa around 72,000 years ago.. 2. they arrived in the geological locations we now identify as australia and papua around 50,000 years ago.

fulltimestudent

Many Bible believers accept the Genesis documents explanations of human origins. But the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.

Increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.

Three papers published in the scientific journal Nature demonstrate the point:

1. The ancestors of Australia Aboriginal and Papuan peoples left Africa around 72,000 years ago.

2. They arrived in the geological locations we now identify as Australia and Papua around 50,000 years ago

3. By 31,000 years ago, most of these communities were genetically isolated from each, a situation that allowed a great genetic diversity to develop.

Australia's ABC media cover the story in this overview:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-22/world-first-study-reveals-rich-history-of-aboriginal-australians/7858376

Now think of the intellectual problems for bible believers:

1. The Genesis documents account of a divinity creating humans circa 5000 years ago cannot possibly be true, if it can be demonstrated that humans have been on the earth for a far longer period.

2. The other racial origin myth in the Genesis document, tracing all modern humans back to the family of Noah, must also be discarded.

3. If Luke 17:26 -27 accurately records the words of Jesus, then Jesus believed the superstitious story of a global flood, the destruction of all humans accept Noah's family, and the genesis account of humanities spread after the flood, a story contradicted by the science of genomics.

13

We have our own Gert Wilders in Australia

by barry in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreptyyo6l8

fulltimestudent

zeb: The so called 'Family Law Act' has been an unmitigated disaster inflicted on the Australian people by a former Labor Govt. They were warned what it would lead to but the 'feminist'/ new age lobby were too influential to prevent any amendment along the way.

and

The Sydney Branch office of the WT was also warned about the family law act and what it would mean when immature people got married and then wanted out but as we have seen at the ARC the elders of the Branch office were living in fairy land and believed they had no need or responsibility to look into anything not given them by the gb.

I'm rather curious about these statements, so I thought to ask you, if you would care to expand? What is it precisely that you find objectionable?

-------

I've had little to do with the Family Court, except of course, in my own divorce, initiated by my former wife (justified within JW-land on the grounds that I placed her in spiritual jeopardy.).

Essentially, I recall that because it was 'no fault' (not sure if that term is used in Australia) and uncontested, it went through the court with any 'dirty washing' being necessary without adding to the bitterness and name-calling that goes along with leaving JW-land.

---------

Under the prior marriage laws (Before Lionel Murphy's Act) immorality was just about the only grounds for a divorce, and the result was a large number of people continuing to live together with bitterness, or separating without divorce and if entering a new relationship, forced to live together in a de facto arrangement without the 'privileges(?)' associated with the legality (for the relationship) granted by legalised marriage.

In your second post, you seem to suggest that the Aust. Branch Office should have done 'something' about that then new Family laws. I'm not sure, given JW dogma, what they should have/could have done? You posted, "immature people got married and then wanted out" - from my perspective, immature people have always gotten married, and then sought to get out. It's not as if Australia suddenly became unique in this regard.

(Matthew ch. 19 seems to expressly forbid divorce for Christians, however it is unlikely that the text reflects any law-making by Jesus, but is more likely to reflect ongoing changes in the customs of Mediterranean peoples caused by the Emperor Augustus's marriage laws, introduced long before Jesus' public ministry or the writing of the Matthew gospel)

9

The Blood Transfusion Act 1960 - Australia

by OrphanCrow in

australia passed an act in 1960 that allowed doctors to give a blood transfusion, if necessary, to minor children.. i am curious as to whether this act - the blood transfusion act 1960 - is still in effect in australia.

and i would also like to know if any australian jws are aware of this act.

are australian jws still told to resist blood transfusions for their minor children?.

fulltimestudent

My worst fear as a witness was having to deal with one of my children requiring a BT. My love for them would have meant an emotional crisis.

Of course, for a true believer, the alternative is the great fear.

Ignatius, in 110 CE wrote:

"Grant me no more than to be a sacrifice for God while there is an altar at hand"

Why, because he believed:

"Nothing you can see has a real value. ...The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated ..."

We could argue that he was an adult, but in the persecutions of early Christians, children also decided to die.

So it gets complex.

The Joe witnesses are not the only ones with this problem. This UK Guardian article reports on a Mormon offshoot with a similar atttitude ( but against all medical assistance).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help

And some refuse treatmentjust because they feel the treatment itself is punishing, as in the case of Xu Ting, a young Chinese actress.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/viral/fail/Chinese-Actress-Dies-of-Cancer-at-26/shdaily.shtml

9

The Blood Transfusion Act 1960 - Australia

by OrphanCrow in

australia passed an act in 1960 that allowed doctors to give a blood transfusion, if necessary, to minor children.. i am curious as to whether this act - the blood transfusion act 1960 - is still in effect in australia.

and i would also like to know if any australian jws are aware of this act.

are australian jws still told to resist blood transfusions for their minor children?.

fulltimestudent

These cases are complex. As you likely read, the 17 y.o. young man in one of my cited cases is stating that he will not allow a transfusion to be given to him.

And, in a comparatively short time, when he is of age, it will all be hypothetical.

--------------------

But leaving the JWs to one side,

what do you think of this case? A 6 y.o boy whose case has see-sawed through the legal system has now been (or, his parents have) permitted to refuse the recommended medical treatment and for 'nature' to take its course.

This boy has a brain tumour:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-01/parents-of-6yo-boy-with-cancer-win-court-battle-over-treatment/7805138.

The ABC (an Australian Govt owned, but not controlled, media outlet) version quotes the judge:
In his judgement, Justice Richard O'Brien said his decision was determined by what was in the best interests of Oshin.
"This case is not about parental rights, nor is it about the perceived power of the medical profession. It is not about whether, in a general sense, quality of life is more important than duration of life, nor is it about the relative merits of traditional medicine and alternative or complementary therapies," he ruled.
"It is not about overarching considerations as to the right to life, or the right to a peaceful death, nor is it about a philosophical consideration of the best interests of children generally.
"This case is solely about Oshin Kiszko, and how to determine what is in his best interests as a unique individual child in the specific circumstances which he now faces."
Justice O'Brien said Oshin's relationship with this parents weighed heavily in his decision.
"I am deeply concerned that any perpetuation of the conflict over Oshin's treatment will continue to diminish the ability of his parents to focus their energies solely on the provision of that support and love directly to him when he needs it most," he said.
Justice Richard O'Brien emphasised that his decision did not set a precedent for other cases involving medical treatment of a child.

9

The Blood Transfusion Act 1960 - Australia

by OrphanCrow in

australia passed an act in 1960 that allowed doctors to give a blood transfusion, if necessary, to minor children.. i am curious as to whether this act - the blood transfusion act 1960 - is still in effect in australia.

and i would also like to know if any australian jws are aware of this act.

are australian jws still told to resist blood transfusions for their minor children?.

fulltimestudent

I was lucky enough to get disfellowshipped last century, but back in the day all JWs in OZ are (i'm quite sure) are aware of the act.

Here are links to two cases decided in court, and a discussion of it in a medical journal.

1. A 17 y.o. young man:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/jehovahs-witness-teen-loses-appeal-over-lifesaving-transfusion-20130927-2uib6.html

2. A 7 y.o. boy: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/judge-allows-blood-transfusion-for-jehovahs-witness-boy-against-parents-wishes/news-story/39297b4edd8838e641c1cf47a1361a53

3. A British Doctor compares the policy in various western countries:

Arch Dis Child 2005;90:715-719 doi:10.1136/adc.2004.067843

Community child health, public health, and epidemiology

Children of Jehovah’s Witnesses and adolescent Jehovah’s Witnesses: what are their rights?

Link: http://adc.bmj.com/content/90/7/715.full

A tragic case of murder/suicide in China

by fulltimestudent in

from a condition of universal poverty in china in 1949, china has progressed to a point where the government estimates that there are now between 90 and 100 million people that can be described as living in poverty.. this tragic story illustrates that although china is now entering the stage where it can be described as 'mid-range' in prosperity, there is still a way to go.

poverty, of course, still exists in most countries in the world.

will poverty ever be totally eliminated?

fulltimestudent

From a condition of universal poverty in China in 1949, China has progressed to a point where the government estimates that there are now between 90 and 100 million people that can be described as living in poverty.

This tragic story illustrates that although China is now entering the stage where it can be described as 'mid-range' in prosperity, there is still a way to go. Poverty, of course, still exists in most countries in the world. Will poverty ever be totally eliminated? Jesus, apparently, thought not, as he (supposedly) said, claiming some priority over the poor:

"You will always have the poor among you, and you can help them whenever you want to. But you will not always have me.." (Mark 14:7 NLT)

This case is also complicated by what seems to be some differences between the tragic Yang family and other residents in the village.

The three generations of the Yang family lived in this home in Agu village, Kangle county in Gansu province in China's west.

A bedroom in their home. The bed structure seems to be a kang, which are constructed from bricks. Mattresses are rolled out on top and in winter a fire can be set in the space under the top, providing warmth to both the bed and the room.

Yang Gailan - at the centre of the tragedy

More details can be found in the linked Peoples Daily web-site:

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0913/c90000-9114107.html

28

Undeserved Kindness vs Grace - Watchtower flaw in a NUTSHELL

by sabastious in

romans 1:7. new international version.

"to all in rome who are loved by god and called to be saints: .

grace and peace to you from god our father and from the lord jesus christ.".

fulltimestudent

Leading on from yesterday's post, here's a question to consider.

Did early Christians understand 'grace' the same way as some modern Christians? Or, did the concept develop slowly over centuries?

I looked for some sort of study that may help answer that question, and found that Donald Fairbairn has attempted an examination of the topic in his 'Grace and Christology in the Early Church.' Fairbairn is a scholar specializing in patristic soteriology and Cyril of Alexandria who currently teaches at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. (want to know more- see his bio in wikipedia, - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Fairbairn )

Google has at least parts of the book on the web*.

I believe that after reading his review ( pages 1 to 20)of what we know (that is, that part of church history which has extant records) that these ideas and doctrines did not come fully developed from the ministry of Jesus, or even the Apostles.

* ttps://books.google.com.au/books? hl=en&lr=&id=W6cUDAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PR11&dq=the+understanding+of+%27grace%27+in+the+early+church&ots=p_RrwAsuUL&sig=n9OrtnbVuMD1sUjpvTtGmpMY2MM#v=onepage&q=the%20understanding%20of%20'grace'%20in%20the%20early%20church&f=false

28

Undeserved Kindness vs Grace - Watchtower flaw in a NUTSHELL

by sabastious in

romans 1:7. new international version.

"to all in rome who are loved by god and called to be saints: .

grace and peace to you from god our father and from the lord jesus christ.".

fulltimestudent

charis, sometimes translated grace in the KJV, but also translated with the English words -

"favour (6x), thanks (4x), thank (4x), thank (with G2192) (3x), pleasure (2x),
miscellaneous words (7x).-

Is a word with complex meanings in its ancient usage.

The Blue Letter Bible web-site suggests that in the Greek Bible usage, it was used with these translated meanings:

grace
that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
good will, loving-kindness, favour
of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
what is due to grace
the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
the token or proof of grace, benefit
a gift of grace
benefit, bounty
thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward
and Strongs Bible Dictionary suggests these English words may add meaning.
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):—acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

Link: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5485&t=KJV

In Greek religious thought there were the three Charites, the goddesses who presided over the domain of 'charis'

And to gain a better understanding of how the ancient word was used, you could do worse than finding a copy of James Davidson's (Reader in Ancient History at Warwick University), "The Greeks and Greek Love" and reading his Ch 2. Grace, Sex and Favours, which will lead you down a totally unexpected path.

Bible writers using greek to write, must have been aware of the popular usage.

I think that neither the WTS, nor more orthodox Christian religious thought, cover the implicit possibities in the usage of the word in the NT

8

Belgium does first doctor assisted suicide of child.

by Chook in

they are 70 years behind wt assisted suicide by refusal of life saving blood..

fulltimestudent

Seems to be merciful.

WHY didn't YHWH/JESUS think of that?