fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  9

  Pity the poor Bible believers - Australian Native People left Africa over 70,000 years ago

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many bible believers accept the genesis documents explanations of human origins.

  but the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.. increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.. three papers published in the scientific journal nature demonstrate the point:.

  1. the ancestors of australia aboriginal and papuan peoples left africa around 72,000 years ago.. 2. they arrived in the geological locations we now identify as australia and papua around 50,000 years ago.

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  fulltimestudent

  dropoffyourkeylee : Bible thumpers aside, why were the aborigines so isolated? Did they not have any knowledge of boats? The Chinese and the Polynesians were travelling long distances, why didn't they touch Australia? There must be reasons for this

  There certainly are reasons, the problem is that while one could think of possible reasons, it is almost impossible to verify them. Language is one way to attempt to work out how peoples moved, but it's only with the advent of genomics that it became possible to work out relationships. Likely we will never have all the answers as to what occurred.

  The native peoples of Australia possible reached the Australian land mass during a period when a land-bridge existed between the Malaysian peninsula, through the Indonesian islands and N.W. Australia. If that occurred some 40,000 years B.P. and later ocean levels rose to the extent necessary to isolate these peoples, then we can see some reasons for the isolation. Aust. native peoples did not (it seems) develop the skills neccessary for large boat building. The earliest Europeans to reach Australia noted the types of water craft used by the native peoples and there does not seem to have been any observed large boats. But, we need to note that these people were not as primitive as some Australians of European descent have described.

  A Wikipedia entry offers some of the theories that have been developed to explain the origins of Pacific basin peoples. You can find it at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesians

  When the entry speaks of Taiwanese, it does not mean the Chinese inhabitants, but refers to the earlier native Taiwanese people (descendants of whom still live in Taiwan)

  See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_aborigines) - Its theorised that the Polynesian peoples originated there. Note some similarities in this image:

  
  

  The original peoples of Taiwan certainly had the maritime skills to make ocean journeys, as you see of some of them in the watercraft they still build.

  
  

  This diagram illustrates one concept of migration.

  
  

  and another slightly different concept:

  

  You may also find this reference helpful:
  

  ttps:/ /www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090122141146.htm

  Its also important not to conflate time periods. What people did 40,000 years ago is different to what people did 2000 years ago when the Chinese initiated coastal shipping and moving across the South China sea, and one thousand years ago when Polynesians began their voyages.
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  33

  Two Brothers Living Together - Never Dated Girls...

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  in my old congregation there are two brothers (non related) who are in the early 30s.

  they've never dated girls.

  they're "best friends".

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  fulltimestudent

  It is JW dogma that gay people can change.

  The belief is based (at least) on the letter claimed to have been written by the Apostle Paul to Christian congregation in Corinth, part of which states:

  "... Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, ... none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; " (1 Cor. 6: 9-11 NLT)

  There seems little doubt that the leadership firmly believes that if you are same sex attracted, you can change, as we note that the top leadership has included people who can be described as same sex attracted, but were (supposed to be) not leading an active sex life.

  It is worth noting that 'homosexuality' the English word denoting same sex attraction, and which is now applied to people who are seen as 'gay' whether or not they engage in same sex behaviour.

  In biblical times, there does not seem to have been a word to describe a latent tendency toward same sex attraction, but only action words. words describing what people did.
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  9

  Pity the poor Bible believers - Australian Native People left Africa over 70,000 years ago

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many bible believers accept the genesis documents explanations of human origins.

  but the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.. increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.. three papers published in the scientific journal nature demonstrate the point:.

  1. the ancestors of australia aboriginal and papuan peoples left africa around 72,000 years ago.. 2. they arrived in the geological locations we now identify as australia and papua around 50,000 years ago.

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  fulltimestudent

  In this video from the Natural History Museum of Denmark:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kbRxSzDE4k

  Professor Eske Willerslev discusses the conclusions of the studies.
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  9

  Pity the poor Bible believers - Australian Native People left Africa over 70,000 years ago

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many bible believers accept the genesis documents explanations of human origins.

  but the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.. increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.. three papers published in the scientific journal nature demonstrate the point:.

  1. the ancestors of australia aboriginal and papuan peoples left africa around 72,000 years ago.. 2. they arrived in the geological locations we now identify as australia and papua around 50,000 years ago.

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  fulltimestudent

  Many Bible believers accept the Genesis documents explanations of human origins. But the modern science of genomics is making that a very difficult intellectual position to hold.

  Increasingly, to believe the bible, is to accept superstition over rationality.

  Three papers published in the scientific journal Nature demonstrate the point:

  1. The ancestors of Australia Aboriginal and Papuan peoples left Africa around 72,000 years ago.

  2. They arrived in the geological locations we now identify as Australia and Papua around 50,000 years ago

  3. By 31,000 years ago, most of these communities were genetically isolated from each, a situation that allowed a great genetic diversity to develop.

  Australia's ABC media cover the story in this overview:

  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-22/world-first-study-reveals-rich-history-of-aboriginal-australians/7858376

  Now think of the intellectual problems for bible believers:

  1. The Genesis documents account of a divinity creating humans circa 5000 years ago cannot possibly be true, if it can be demonstrated that humans have been on the earth for a far longer period.

  2. The other racial origin myth in the Genesis document, tracing all modern humans back to the family of Noah, must also be discarded.

  3. If Luke 17:26 -27 accurately records the words of Jesus, then Jesus believed the superstitious story of a global flood, the destruction of all humans accept Noah's family, and the genesis account of humanities spread after the flood, a story contradicted by the science of genomics.
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  13

  We have our own Gert Wilders in Australia

  by barry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreptyyo6l8

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  fulltimestudent

  zeb: The so called 'Family Law Act' has been an unmitigated disaster inflicted on the Australian people by a former Labor Govt. They were warned what it would lead to but the 'feminist'/ new age lobby were too influential to prevent any amendment along the way.

  and

  The Sydney Branch office of the WT was also warned about the family law act and what it would mean when immature people got married and then wanted out but as we have seen at the ARC the elders of the Branch office were living in fairy land and believed they had no need or responsibility to look into anything not given them by the gb.

  I'm rather curious about these statements, so I thought to ask you, if you would care to expand? What is it precisely that you find objectionable?

  -------

  I've had little to do with the Family Court, except of course, in my own divorce, initiated by my former wife (justified within JW-land on the grounds that I placed her in spiritual jeopardy.).

  Essentially, I recall that because it was 'no fault' (not sure if that term is used in Australia) and uncontested, it went through the court with any 'dirty washing' being necessary without adding to the bitterness and name-calling that goes along with leaving JW-land.

  ---------

  Under the prior marriage laws (Before Lionel Murphy's Act) immorality was just about the only grounds for a divorce, and the result was a large number of people continuing to live together with bitterness, or separating without divorce and if entering a new relationship, forced to live together in a de facto arrangement without the 'privileges(?)' associated with the legality (for the relationship) granted by legalised marriage.

  In your second post, you seem to suggest that the Aust. Branch Office should have done 'something' about that then new Family laws. I'm not sure, given JW dogma, what they should have/could have done? You posted, "immature people got married and then wanted out" - from my perspective, immature people have always gotten married, and then sought to get out. It's not as if Australia suddenly became unique in this regard.

  (Matthew ch. 19 seems to expressly forbid divorce for Christians, however it is unlikely that the text reflects any law-making by Jesus, but is more likely to reflect ongoing changes in the customs of Mediterranean peoples caused by the Emperor Augustus's marriage laws, introduced long before Jesus' public ministry or the writing of the Matthew gospel)

  
  
  
  
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  9

  The Blood Transfusion Act 1960 - Australia

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  australia passed an act in 1960 that allowed doctors to give a blood transfusion, if necessary, to minor children.. i am curious as to whether this act - the blood transfusion act 1960 - is still in effect in australia.

  and i would also like to know if any australian jws are aware of this act.

  are australian jws still told to resist blood transfusions for their minor children?.

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  fulltimestudent

  My worst fear as a witness was having to deal with one of my children requiring a BT. My love for them would have meant an emotional crisis.

  Of course, for a true believer, the alternative is the great fear.

  Ignatius, in 110 CE wrote:

  "Grant me no more than to be a sacrifice for God while there is an altar at hand"

  Why, because he believed:

  "Nothing you can see has a real value. ...The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated ..."

  We could argue that he was an adult, but in the persecutions of early Christians, children also decided to die.

  So it gets complex.

  The Joe witnesses are not the only ones with this problem. This UK Guardian article reports on a Mormon offshoot with a similar atttitude ( but against all medical assistance).

  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help

  And some refuse treatmentjust because they feel the treatment itself is punishing, as in the case of Xu Ting, a young Chinese actress.

  http://www.shanghaidaily.com/viral/fail/Chinese-Actress-Dies-of-Cancer-at-26/shdaily.shtml
  
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  9

  The Blood Transfusion Act 1960 - Australia

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  australia passed an act in 1960 that allowed doctors to give a blood transfusion, if necessary, to minor children.. i am curious as to whether this act - the blood transfusion act 1960 - is still in effect in australia.

  and i would also like to know if any australian jws are aware of this act.

  are australian jws still told to resist blood transfusions for their minor children?.

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  fulltimestudent

  These cases are complex. As you likely read, the 17 y.o. young man in one of my cited cases is stating that he will not allow a transfusion to be given to him.

  And, in a comparatively short time, when he is of age, it will all be hypothetical.

  --------------------

  But leaving the JWs to one side,

  what do you think of this case? A 6 y.o boy whose case has see-sawed through the legal system has now been (or, his parents have) permitted to refuse the recommended medical treatment and for 'nature' to take its course.

  This boy has a brain tumour:

  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-01/parents-of-6yo-boy-with-cancer-win-court-battle-over-treatment/7805138.

  The ABC (an Australian Govt owned, but not controlled, media outlet) version quotes the judge:
  In his judgement, Justice Richard O'Brien said his decision was determined by what was in the best interests of Oshin.
  "This case is not about parental rights, nor is it about the perceived power of the medical profession. It is not about whether, in a general sense, quality of life is more important than duration of life, nor is it about the relative merits of traditional medicine and alternative or complementary therapies," he ruled.
  "It is not about overarching considerations as to the right to life, or the right to a peaceful death, nor is it about a philosophical consideration of the best interests of children generally.
  "This case is solely about Oshin Kiszko, and how to determine what is in his best interests as a unique individual child in the specific circumstances which he now faces."
  Justice O'Brien said Oshin's relationship with this parents weighed heavily in his decision.
  "I am deeply concerned that any perpetuation of the conflict over Oshin's treatment will continue to diminish the ability of his parents to focus their energies solely on the provision of that support and love directly to him when he needs it most," he said.
  Justice Richard O'Brien emphasised that his decision did not set a precedent for other cases involving medical treatment of a child.
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  9

  The Blood Transfusion Act 1960 - Australia

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  australia passed an act in 1960 that allowed doctors to give a blood transfusion, if necessary, to minor children.. i am curious as to whether this act - the blood transfusion act 1960 - is still in effect in australia.

  and i would also like to know if any australian jws are aware of this act.

  are australian jws still told to resist blood transfusions for their minor children?.

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  fulltimestudent

  I was lucky enough to get disfellowshipped last century, but back in the day all JWs in OZ are (i'm quite sure) are aware of the act.

  Here are links to two cases decided in court, and a discussion of it in a medical journal.

  1. A 17 y.o. young man:

  http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/jehovahs-witness-teen-loses-appeal-over-lifesaving-transfusion-20130927-2uib6.html

  2. A 7 y.o. boy: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/judge-allows-blood-transfusion-for-jehovahs-witness-boy-against-parents-wishes/news-story/39297b4edd8838e641c1cf47a1361a53

  3. A British Doctor compares the policy in various western countries:

  Arch Dis Child 2005;90:715-719 doi:10.1136/adc.2004.067843

  • Community child health, public health, and epidemiology
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  Children of Jehovah’s Witnesses and adolescent Jehovah’s Witnesses: what are their rights?

  Link: http://adc.bmj.com/content/90/7/715.full
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  A tragic case of murder/suicide in China

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  from a condition of universal poverty in china in 1949, china has progressed to a point where the government estimates that there are now between 90 and 100 million people that can be described as living in poverty.. this tragic story illustrates that although china is now entering the stage where it can be described as 'mid-range' in prosperity, there is still a way to go.

  poverty, of course, still exists in most countries in the world.

  will poverty ever be totally eliminated?

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  fulltimestudent

  From a condition of universal poverty in China in 1949, China has progressed to a point where the government estimates that there are now between 90 and 100 million people that can be described as living in poverty.

  This tragic story illustrates that although China is now entering the stage where it can be described as 'mid-range' in prosperity, there is still a way to go. Poverty, of course, still exists in most countries in the world. Will poverty ever be totally eliminated? Jesus, apparently, thought not, as he (supposedly) said, claiming some priority over the poor:

  "You will always have the poor among you, and you can help them whenever you want to. But you will not always have me.." (Mark 14:7 NLT)

  This case is also complicated by what seems to be some differences between the tragic Yang family and other residents in the village.

  
  

  
  

  The three generations of the Yang family lived in this home in Agu village, Kangle county in Gansu province in China's west.

  A bedroom in their home. The bed structure seems to be a kang, which are constructed from bricks. Mattresses are rolled out on top and in winter a fire can be set in the space under the top, providing warmth to both the bed and the room.

  
  

  Yang Gailan - at the centre of the tragedy

  More details can be found in the linked Peoples Daily web-site:

  http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0913/c90000-9114107.html
  
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  28

  Undeserved Kindness vs Grace - Watchtower flaw in a NUTSHELL

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  romans 1:7. new international version.

  "to all in rome who are loved by god and called to be saints: .

  grace and peace to you from god our father and from the lord jesus christ.".

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  fulltimestudent

  Leading on from yesterday's post, here's a question to consider.

  Did early Christians understand 'grace' the same way as some modern Christians? Or, did the concept develop slowly over centuries?

  I looked for some sort of study that may help answer that question, and found that Donald Fairbairn has attempted an examination of the topic in his 'Grace and Christology in the Early Church.' Fairbairn is a scholar specializing in patristic soteriology and Cyril of Alexandria who currently teaches at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. (want to know more- see his bio in wikipedia, - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Fairbairn )

  Google has at least parts of the book on the web*.

  I believe that after reading his review ( pages 1 to 20)of what we know (that is, that part of church history which has extant records) that these ideas and doctrines did not come fully developed from the ministry of Jesus, or even the Apostles.

  * ttps://books.google.com.au/books? hl=en&lr=&id=W6cUDAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PR11&dq=the+understanding+of+%27grace%27+in+the+early+church&ots=p_RrwAsuUL&sig=n9OrtnbVuMD1sUjpvTtGmpMY2MM#v=onepage&q=the%20understanding%20of%20'grace'%20in%20the%20early%20church&f=false