Posts by fulltimestudent

20

Feeling the Guilt

by Saethydd in

i'm currently disfellowshipped and living at home with my parents, but because they are both still devout jws i have to keep going to the meetings and crap because i don't want to risk getting thrown out until i finish college or find a job that will let me support myself and go to college.. yesterday, my mother rode with me to the meeting and told me how much my best friend and my oldest sister are missing me, and it just tears me apart because during the meeting i was practically counting the minutes till it was over.

it didn't help matters that i had to sit with my family because the library was closed off, thus forcing me to follow along with the meeting on my tablet instead of reading something useful or interesting like i normally do.. when i got home i just cried out in frustration because it feels like no matter what i do, i am making the wrong choice.

either i have to keep pretending to support an organization that has caused so much pain to so many people, or i have to abandon my family and friends to it so i can save myself.

fulltimestudent

Saethydd : Thanks, I appreciate having some support through all of this, and I'm just sorry that the average JW will probably never know what kind of people you really are. Instead, they will forever think of you as "wicked apostates" that want to mislead them.

So ...?

What it our former friends want to see us as "wicked." There are some 8 million JWs in the world, (a tiny fraction of humankind) who will one day either change or fade out of existence. They may have been important to us in the past, but do not belong in our future. Disregard them - they no longer matter, as their 'truth. has been proven to be 'false.'

Gradually make new friends, as you identify worthwhile people who may become friends for life.

74

Why is Trump so effective???

by Coded Logic in

i think trump is an absolute idiot.

his tactics, however, are undeniably effective.

thought i'd just put together a short list of some of the things he does.

fulltimestudent

S K Ditta: It's a link to a nice video. Trump, Marine LePen, Nigel Farage and similar opportunistic leaders expose weaknesses in an inherently flawed system.

Thnx for the link. Of course, Socrates was not the only ancient Greek philosopher to express doubts about 'democracy'.

Aristotle in his "The Politics"analyses the main constitutions of his time and points out their problems. Plato also saw flaws in 'democracy.'

Its relatively easy (as your posted video points out) to see why democracy is flawed. To a greater or lesser extent, voters today (in western style democracies) are manipulated by the party that forms government. Most voters cannot critically analyse government policies, indeed if half (?) of voters are below average intelligence, we could wonder it they could even contemplate what it means to critique a policy. And when the democratic representative is also drawn from among those who are below 'average intelligence' we can see the possibilities for disaster.

Plato also discarded 'democracy." Plato opted for a form of aristocracy, with a "philosopher king" who would be grounded in wisdom and reason. That leader would rule through a trained governing organisation he called 'guardians.'

While there exists a possibility that the American constitution sought to have (at the top of the governmental tree) an "elected king," the developed government based on party politics has spoiled this ideal. Why? Because political parties are usually oligarchies and not democracies, with (of course) the faults and weaknesses of both.

One of the most fascinating political experiments in the contemporary world is occurring in China, where in the less than 70 years in which the PRC has existed, the ruling Party has undergone many transformations and in its current iteration, has a leader that has had to prove his potential by governing (at least) two large (with populations over 100,000,000) provinces on his way to the point where the CPC will consider that person for National leadership. The selected proven leader is assisted in government by highly trained cadres - an arrangement that bears a strong resemblance to Plato's state "guardians." Up to this point, an honest observer has to admit to the practical success of this Chinese experiment, No other contemporary government has brought a third world nation into near-first world status.

74

Why is Trump so effective???

by Coded Logic in

i think trump is an absolute idiot.

his tactics, however, are undeniably effective.

thought i'd just put together a short list of some of the things he does.

fulltimestudent

Don't attempt to analyse Trump alone in seeking answers to this phenomenon. Look at how the techniques of communicating have changed in the last quarter century, AND (above all) take a good hard look at his followers. What sort of thinkers are they?

In good old Aussie, we also have this so called populist change. One segment of this populist change follows a woman called Pauline Hanson.

A cartoon in a Jesuit web-site explains a lot:

In the WA (Western Australia) state election, her share of the vote was down (probably due to a strategic mistake.

18

new strategy to turn in your time in Japan

by yoko N in

jw.org stickers are passed around among publishers.one brother says "hey you can just turn in your time just driving around streets with this sticker on your car.

" the other side of this car ,(photo) there is a qr code sticker on it.. .

fulltimestudent

tor1500: Could it really be true...but I was told if you stop for lunch and leave a magazine or tract on the table in site...count it....I guess this is the advertise advertise era...AGAIN...

So, I've been told that in Japan they are under preaching ban..

Don't think so, you may be confusing Japan with either China or North Korea.

15

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Why not create multiple Adam & Eve's?

by doubtfull1799 in

i saw a post the other day on another forum (think it was reddit) that put forward the idea that god should have created multiple couples, not just adam and ever.

this idea was so simple and brilliantly logical, that i wish i'd thought of it, but i cannot claim credit!

but it really got me thinking of the practical implications and benefits.... if god had simply created multiple couples instead of one, he would in one foul swoop have solved the problem of incest, as well as have prevented 6 thousand years of human tragedy and a ransom sacrifice being needed etc.

fulltimestudent

doubtfull1799: I saw a post the other day on another forum (think it was Reddit) that put forward the idea that God should have created multiple couples, not just Adam and Ever. This idea was so simple and brilliantly logical, that I wish I'd thought of it, but I cannot claim credit! But it really got me thinking of the practical implications and benefits...

What evidence is there that theYHWH+JESUS combo is either logical or brilliant?

Those who think so may have their own cognitive problems!

3

The Antikythera Mechanism -

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

shorter version - shared from the openculture wwebsite:.

how the world’s oldest computer worked: reconstructing the 2,200-year-old antikythera mechanism.

- in astronomy, history, technology | january 13th, 2017. http://www.openculture.com/2017/01/how-the-worlds-oldest-computer-worked-reconstructing-the-2200-year-old-antikythera-mechanism.html.

fulltimestudent

A . Shorter version - Shared from the OpenCulture wwebsite:

How the World’s Oldest Computer Worked: Reconstructing the 2,200-Year-Old Antikythera Mechanism

- in Astronomy, History, Technology | January 13th, 2017

http://www.openculture.com/2017/01/how-the-worlds-oldest-computer-worked-reconstructing-the-2200-year-old-antikythera-mechanism.html

B. A Longer version - a 2 hour talk by a Stanford University academic.

The Antikythera Mechanism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWVA6TeUKYU&t=1060s

3

The stupidity of Christians in connection with the problem of child abuse

by fulltimestudent in

the current issue of the uk spectator magazine has a story about pope francis:.

quote: "on 2 january, the vatican published a letter from pope francis to the world’s bishops in which he reminded them that they must show ‘zero tolerance’ towards child abuse.

the next day, the american week magazine published an article that told the story of ‘don mercedes’ — fr mauro inzoli, an italian priest with a passion for expensive cars and underage boys.in 2012, pope benedict stripped inzoli of his priestly faculties, effectively defrocking him.

fulltimestudent

The current issue of the UK Spectator magazine has a story about Pope Francis:

Quote: "On 2 January, the Vatican published a letter from Pope Francis to the world’s bishops in which he reminded them that they must show ‘zero tolerance’ towards child abuse. The next day, the American Week magazine published an article that told the story of ‘Don Mercedes’ — Fr Mauro Inzoli, an Italian priest with a passion for expensive cars and underage boys.
In 2012, Pope Benedict stripped Inzoli of his priestly faculties, effectively defrocking him. In 2014, however, they were restored to him — by Pope Francis, who warned him to stay away from minors.
Then, finally, the Italian civil authorities caught up with this serial groper of teenagers in the confessional. Last summer Inzoli was sentenced to four years and nine months in jail for paedophile offences. The Vatican, under ‘zero-tolerance’ Francis, refused to supply evidence that prosecutors wanted."

Francis has the same "christian' problem that JW elders suffer. They all believe that if YHWH/JESUS forgives you, then you must be accepted into (or back into) the Christian congregation (church). They forget that sexuality is not just another sin, like ripping off the contributions, but can actually be (or, come to be) part of your psyche.

Little is understood as to why someone may become sexually fixated on pre-pubescent children (or pubescent children for that matter). Richard Sipe, a Catholic psychotherapist (and former seminarian) suggests it may have something to do with a person's first sexual experience (which can be an overwhelming experience) and that person does not mature in a normal manner, but his/her sexual development is curtailed by the Christian concept of evil, sin and guilt. This person remains fixated on that first experience and never moves past it.

Repeat incidents will be accompanied by the whole Christian repertory of shame and guilt, followed by repentance, until desire once again overwhelms the person. How easy it is to see the fixation in terms of the constant Christian battle against sin, and miss the real problem. As ex-witnesses we need to appreciate that this problem is a universal problem, made worse by Christian theology dealing with sin, repentance and forgiveness.

The real answer (if Sipes' understanding is correct) is to somehow help the sexually immature become sexually mature, a task that becomes more difficult as a person ages, and made even more difficult by wacky Christian ideas about the nature of sin.

Cant even begin to imagine our former loving brothers (as elders) having the wisdom to attempt that task. And sadly, they would reject the 'wisdom (and experience) of the world' and not look to experienced therapists for help for such people.

Note: The above incident concerning Pope Francis is from a current electronic copy of The Spectator Magazine: Reference:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/why-more-and-more-priests-cant-stand-pope-francis/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170114_Weekly_Highlights_02_NONSUBS

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Richard Sipe biographical extract says: "

A.W. Richard Sipe is devoted full time to research into the sexual and celibate practices of Roman Catholic bishops and priests. That path now leads him to the study of the sexual teaching of the church and its effects on behavior - especially sexual abuse of minors by clergy - and the tangle of sexual problems that some people claim are blocking every religious agenda and destroying beyond repair the credibility of the Catholic Church in sexual matters. ...
Sipe has no professional sympathy for the cardinals and bishops and other ranking church officials who cover up their crimes. "Some of them are so terrible," Sipe says. "I mean the plain lying that I've seen, bishop after bishop saying, 'No, this was never true. I don't know anything. I can't remember anything.' And sometimes the bishop just smiles. One bishop said, 'I only lie when I have to.' "

A.W. RICHARD SIPE is a Certified Clinical Mental Health Counselor who earlier spent 18 years as a Benedictine monk and priest. He was trained specifically to deal with the mental health problems of Roman Catholic Priests. In the process of training and therapy, he conducted a 25-year ethnographic study of the celibate/sexual behavior of that population.

Reference: http://www.awrsipe.com/about_richard.html

24

"Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."

by pale.emperor in

now that im not longer a jw this verse puzzles me.

being born and raised a witness, this verse confirmed to me that jesus was talking about a paradise on earth.

but now that everything the witnesses taught is 99.99% incorrect can somone explain what he was getting at here?

fulltimestudent

.... and then there is the distinct possibility that Jesus was one of those preachers that rambled on and on about anything that came into their dis-organised minds.

On top of that is that fact that very very few people have retentive memories and are able to repeat verbatim everything they hear. This means that the gospel authors were reconstructing every detail they wrote about.

Why would it always make sense?

13

An intellectual feast - A Conference in honour of Prof Samuel N.C.Lieu on his Retirement-Don't read if you don't like ideas

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've been invited to attend this conference (limited attendance) and consider it an exciting privilege.

maybe for many it would be too boring, as a poster said on one of my threads, (my paraphrase) " who cares about the past?".

but, if i started my adult life as a brainwashed slave to yhwh/jesus (and, don't give me any shit about jw's ignoring jesus), i am finishing it as a (somewhat-grin) enlightened man who just may have some understanding of the development of world thought.

fulltimestudent

Hi Florence,

First, the remark, "that the further east one travels, the more Chinese the architecture becomes...etc," was not miy comment, but part of Gunner Mikkelsen's introduction to Lyndon's talk.

Second, in my recollections (possibly influenced by other conversations with Lyndon) he was focused on what was actually recovered at any site. From that perspective, his conclusions would have been 'evidence based.'

Thirdly, regarding the extent of Chinese cultural influence (including building techniques), Chinese cultural influence extended to areas outside Chinese political influence (e.g. Japan, Korea, and Vietnam and the so-called Northern dynasties). A similar process occurs in the contemporary world, where the cultural influence of the USA (for better or worse) extends far beyond the political boundaries of the USA. (With American troops based in some 75 other nations and 900 odd overseas bases it has become somewhat difficult to define even political boundaries.) The cultural influences can be observed everywhere.

Finally, I've always found Lyndon approachable. While he's likely a busy guy (family (new), work, sport (cricket) and archaeologically) I'm sure he would at least offer brief comments on your questions.

I might add that Gunner Mikkelson has a deep interest and knowledge concerning Manicheanism. He is still on MU staff and you will find his email address in MU's A.H. staff list.

For myself, I retain A.H.interests, mainly centred on the Asian interconnection of knowledge, and when I graduate will have (by accident) a major in A.H. and a minor in Japanese studies. But my academic interests lie more in contemporary events in Asia, focusing on the amazing re-organisation of The People's Republic of China. Historians seldom live through the reality of such a sea change in political power.

----------------------------------

Other Points.

1. Are you aware of what is sometimes described as the 'last' Manichean temple in the world, located in the city of Quanzhou, Fujian Province, PRC. I've tried twice to visit it, but there were floods in the south, so I did not try. The building has been renovated, and I believe it is in an ornate Chinese style. That work was done quite a while ago and I think indicates some official's viewpoint. Contemporary Chinese archaeologists are now very professional, so I have hope that one day the city will renovate in a much more historically sympathetic style. The building is currently used by Buddhists (or so I understand).

Quanzhou also has a good Maritime museum as Quanzhou was once a busy trading port.

Macquarie U, staff have visited the temple and you can read of it at:

http://www.mq.edu.au/research/research-centres-groups-and-facilities/resilient-societies/centres/ancient-cultures-research-centre/research/research-projects/manichaean-and-nestorian-christian-remains-in-zayton

There is also a good academic book (2011) on the remains, a review can be found at:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-royal-asiatic-society/article/div-classtitlemedieval-christian-and-manichaean-remains-from-quanzhou-zayton-corpus-fontium-manichaeorum-series-archaeologica-et-iconographica-by-samuel-n-clieu-lanceeccles-majellafranzmann-iaingardner-and-kenparry-pp-x-282-turnhout-brepols-2012div/D7DF67CFAC310B02CA9AA4CAE4737B37

I think overall, we can see the Manicheans (despite some weird ideas) as a rather dynamic group that "filled the world" with their preaching, and gave more orthodox Christians a run for their money (grin).

36

Noah a Preacher of Righteousness?

by Spoletta in

during the watchtower study today, i browsed genesis and looked for evidence of noah ever preaching to anyone.

from what i could glean from the scriptures, it was a foregone conclusion that noah's family would be it on the ark.

(unless they towed some rafts behind) my wife says that building the ark could be considered a witness of his faith to the wicked world, but that seems kind of lame to me.. so, should i just assume that god decided not to give anyone else a chance for redemption?

fulltimestudent

prologos: "Noah and Jesus were wood workers, If you have ever worked manually with wood, even when not using dull bronze age handtools, all day long, day in and day out, you will do little else."

I understand that bronze (an alloy of tin and copper) can be honed to be quite sharp, but generally it is considered that bronze cutting tools were inferior to iron implements.

But the point prologos makes is important. The stated size of the ark (Genesis 6:15) and its detail means a massive amount of timber had to be processed. Nothing is said in the Genesis account about the source of the timber. If Noah and his sons had to source the timber, cut it down and haul it to the construction site, then this would add a massive amount of labour to their task.

Of course, Noah could've paid others to source the timber, but that adds another dimension to the conundrum. Where did Noah get the funds for purchasing the timber (a voluntary contribution box maybe-haha). Who was Noah anyway? He just appears in the account. Was he a sort of local ruler? Did he have slaves to do his bidding? If he did, why are none of them 'saved.' (In the slave owning households of early Christianity, many slave became believers and are described as being saved).

But to return to prologos' topic of carpentary, Here's an illustration of two men using a method known as 'pit-sawing' to process timber. The guy in the pit gets covered in sawdust, and its often in his eyes too (no safety goggles), how long do you think it would have taken them to process the required timber? And no outside help, from either slaves or angels, the account specifically says Noah and his family did the work. (Gen. 6:22)

And on top of all that, they had to grow enough food for themselves and the animals for their time in the ark and afterwards (until they had planted new farms), and load it into the ark. Busy little buggers weren't they?

I think most thinking people, (except those whose metacognitive faculties are blinded by faith), will agree that Noah's flood story looks more and more like a fairy story, or what some people call, 'tooth fairy research,' which term describes a person researching something before establishing that the 'something' actually exists.

And sadly for those blinded by faith, both Jesus and Peter, were taken in by this story and are revealed as ordinary humans, having no special insights and without the ability to critically assess information.