Posts by fulltimestudent

36

Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD

by Sea Breeze in

i ran across a pretty early treatise.

we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".

but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.

fulltimestudent

In passing, its interesting to know that the Emperor Hadrian established and supported another cult religion.

Here's Wikipedia description (an extract from the fuller entry on Hadrian):

Hadrian had Antinous deified as Osiris-Antinous by an Egyptian priest at the ancient Temple of Ramesses II, very near the place of his death. Hadrian dedicated a new temple-city complex there, built in a Graeco-Roman style, and named it Antinoöpolis.[227] It was a proper Greek polis; it was granted an Imperially subsidised alimentary scheme similar to Trajan's alimenta,[228] and its citizens were allowed intermarriage with members of the native population, without loss of citizen-status. Hadrian thus identified an existing native cult (to Osiris) with Roman rule.[229] The cult of Antinous was to become very popular in the Greek-speaking world, and also found support in the West. In Hadrian's villa, statues of the Tyrannicides, with a bearded Aristogeiton and a clean-shaven Harmodios, linked his favourite to the classical tradition of Greek love.[230] In the west, Antinous was identified with the Celtic sun-god Belenos.[231]

Hadrian was criticised for the open intensity of his grief at Antinous's death, ....] Nevertheless, his recreation of the deceased youth as a cult-figure found little opposition.[233] Though not a subject of the state-sponsored, official Roman imperial cult, Antinous offered a common focus for the emperor and his subjects, emphasising their sense of community.[234] Medals were struck with his effigy, and statues erected to him in all parts of the empire, in all kinds of garb, including Egyptian dress.[235] Temples were built for his worship in Bithynia and Mantineia in Arcadia. In Athens, festivals were celebrated in his honour and oracles delivered in his name. As an "international" cult figure, Antinous had an enduring fame, far outlasting Hadrian's reign.[236] Local coins with his effigy were still being struck during Caracalla's reign, and he was invoked in a poem to celebrate the accession of Diocletian.[237]

Why did Hadrian do that, because the handsome young man. Antinous, was his his devoted lover.

36

Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD

by Sea Breeze in

i ran across a pretty early treatise.

we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".

but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.

fulltimestudent

I havn't been following this discussion - but would like to comment that in all the writings that form part of what now forms the intellectual foundation of christian thought - nothing may be as it seems.

And that may well be the case for this sample of Apologetics (from Gk ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") which is the religious discipline of defending religious concepts through systematic analysis and argumentation and discourse, (this one known generally as The Apology of Aristides) as posted in full by Terry, to the approval of Sea Breeze

In 1958 an interesting analysis of this sample of apologetics was published in the Harvard Theological Review (Vol. 51, Issue 4, October 1958, pp, 227-254). The author, G. C. O'Ceallaigh called his review,""Marcianus" Aristides, On the Worship of God."

An extract (as published by Cambridge Core) says:

Careful inspection of all external and internal evidence reveals that the Apology of Aristides, known since 1889 as the long-lost “earliest extant apology for the Christian Faith,” mentioned by Eusebius and Jerome, was written by a proselyte to Hellenist Judaism, probably in the time of Hadrian, not as an apology for Christians at all, but primarily as a counterattack upon polytheists and their religious notions and secondarily, as a defense of the monotheistic worship and the morals of the Jews.

This definitely Jewish work of the second century was interpolated and “edited” by a Christian writer, probably of the late fourth century, and was thus converted into what passed as an apology for Christianity.

So what seemed to be the earliest defense of christian beliefs is actually a re-write of an earlier document, edited to reflect the post Constantine doctrines of the early church.

To read the full article ( and all the author's reasons for his conclusions), you will likely need access to a good library

The link to the Cambridge Core copy is at https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/harvard-theological-review/article/abs/marcianus-aristides-on-the-worship-of-god/E82BA3C0F42673A88421E2B27B8575E4

18

Canadian Residential School Deaths

by Simon in

in case you haven't heard, they just discovered the remains of some 215 dead children at a so called canadian residential school.

they couldn't call it a death-camp could they ... it would be too obvious.. these were where indigenous children were taken, forcibly, in order to "educate" them out of their native customs and languages and make them integrate with society.. unbelievably, this was still going on in the 60s to 90s.. of course the catholic church has their sticky fingers all over it.

what is it about those creepy bastards?

fulltimestudent

LoveUniHate Exams:

You commented, that my statement, "These efforts to eliminate the native peoples can only be described as genocide" - that - in your opinion - those terrible deeds were not actually genocide.

I imagine that you're possibly correct, that genocide could be graded, or we could say, not all attempted genocide succeeds, so its not genocide

But, what are the usual definitions of genocide?

A google search finds this definition by the Definitions from Oxford Languages

"the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

Another entry from that search is from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum:

Quote: "Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group"

The problem in both North America and Australia, is that the Native Peoples held Land Ttitle under a tribal system, maybe similar to the way Nations today define their ownership of land within claimed borders.

The invading British ( in both the above examples) claimed that there was no land ownership system in existence, therefore the could just walk in take the land over. Am I correct?

When the native peoples protested and attempted to resist the takeover the British solution was extermination, For your interest the map below indicates all the known (and attested) sites of massacres of aboriginal by white settlers in Australia, The article found at

https://www.newcastle.edu.au/newsroom/featured/true-extent-of-colonial-frontier-massacres-revealed-as-new-sites-added-to-interactive-map

has more information.

18

Canadian Residential School Deaths

by Simon in

in case you haven't heard, they just discovered the remains of some 215 dead children at a so called canadian residential school.

they couldn't call it a death-camp could they ... it would be too obvious.. these were where indigenous children were taken, forcibly, in order to "educate" them out of their native customs and languages and make them integrate with society.. unbelievably, this was still going on in the 60s to 90s.. of course the catholic church has their sticky fingers all over it.

what is it about those creepy bastards?

fulltimestudent

road to nowhere said: an hour ago

I am afraid you will find the same story for US blacks, Indians, Good Shepherd homes (un wed mothers) australian aborigines.

Weigars, Indias untouchables. on......on

You're quite right. rtn, india, is still a class ridden society, although officially the concept of these social classes has been banned. But, there is another, more hidden example of racist prejudice in India. The Naga people, a tribal people within India fought against British and Indian attempts to take over their tribal lands, That war continues to now. It's often described as 'Maoist,' an effort, i think, to misrepresent the rebellion.

A Wikipedia article notes: "The Naga insurgency, climaxing in 1956, was an armed ethnic conflict led by the Naga National Council (NNC) which aimed for the secession of Naga territories from India. ... The Indian Government conceded a separate Naga state within the Indian Union in 1960 and the state was inaugurated in 1963." But this war continues, as do the efforts of high class Indian business men to take over Naga lands

18

Canadian Residential School Deaths

by Simon in

in case you haven't heard, they just discovered the remains of some 215 dead children at a so called canadian residential school.

they couldn't call it a death-camp could they ... it would be too obvious.. these were where indigenous children were taken, forcibly, in order to "educate" them out of their native customs and languages and make them integrate with society.. unbelievably, this was still going on in the 60s to 90s.. of course the catholic church has their sticky fingers all over it.

what is it about those creepy bastards?

fulltimestudent

I agree I've been following this story, along with many others.

You can track the history of British migration to North America and Australia and find the same callous disregard for the lives of indigenous peoples. These efforts to eliminate the native peoples can only be described as genocide. Here's George Simpson, a nineteenth century parliamentarian,

“…it will be a happy day for Western Australia and Australia at large when the natives and the kangaroo disappear.”

(George Simpson, Member of the Legislative Council, “Protection of Northern Settlers Against Hostile Natives,” Parliamentary Debates Legislative Council, 14 January 1892, Vol II)

What was described as 'raids' by indigenous warriors were only efforts by native peoples to defend their traditional lands.

Here's a image of what happened to the native people who were captured in one those wars.

After such'wars' children taken from their families in Australia were also 'imprisoned' in church run schools, on the pretext that they needed to be 'civilised.'

A Royal Commission in Australia found:

Quote: "The current Royal Commission investigating child sexual abuse has brought to light the horrific and abusive conditions that children were subjected to under the “care” of various institutions. Not least affected were Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, who were removed from family, land and culture under the auspices of “Stolen Generations” policies of the 20th Century.

The effects of such abuse – which include physical, emotional, sexual and cultural – have inherently damaged Indigenous communities, the inter-generational ramifications of which can be found in the ongoing high child-removal rates, incarceration, health issues and other poor outcomes across a range of social indicators.

The Royal Commission has a task ahead of itself in dealing with the cultural nature of institutional child sexual abuse when engaging with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, and requires the support of agencies such as the Victorian Aboriginal Legal Service to do so. ... The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was set up in January 2013 in response to the overwhelming evidence of abuses committed against children while in the “care” of institutions such as church-run homes, orphanages, foster homes and social clubs. The federal government also recognised that the responses from such institutions – such as the “Toward Healing” and “Melbourne Response” from the Catholic Church – were inadequate.

While initially due to finish in July 2015, the Commission has been granted a two-year extension to 2017 due to the extremely large number of calls made to the Commission. The Royal Commission aims to provide the opportunity for survivors of sexual abuse to tell their story to a Commissioner in a one-on-one private session. It also investigates specific case studies of systemic sexual abuse through the Public Hearing process and conducts research into some of the broader issues involved.."

- https://rightnow.org.au/opinion-3/institutional-child-sexual-abuse-and-the-royal-commission-the-indigenous-experience/

Nothing civilised about all that

6

Further thoughts on the thread dealing with wandering Jews pooping outside the camp

by Doug Mason in

i think the excellent thread on the wandering jews having to defecate outside the camp could have explored further implications, such as animal faeces, and also the fact that when women are in a group they cycle (menstruate) together.

imagine what the place was like with their attitude towards a menstruating woman, or with the disposal of the "rags".how did they dispose of all the placentas, etc.

?where are the skeletons of the millions of people and animals?

fulltimestudent

I'm with U there smiddy3!

Trouble is, we not only believed but spread that shit, and other people, who also did not think too hard about the information they recieved, also began, not only believed, but began to share it.

The Covid19 pandemic damage is nothing compared to the harm caused by the spread of christianity,

17

Jesus Creates a Monster

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i recently found this image of jesus, with a caption, a reminder of past stupidity in believing that kind, loving jesus, would (on behalf of old yhwy) look after me when he 99% of the people on this earth.. .

in case you're wondering i found it on a pinterest page.. proverbs 8, of course.

personifies wisdom - and the passages are controversial and the subject of some academic analysis (e.g.

fulltimestudent

Titch,

These references may be of interest to you.

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691126364/do-animals-think

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171101151206.htm

You could then think about the implications those articles have for 2 Peter 2:12

17

Jesus Creates a Monster

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i recently found this image of jesus, with a caption, a reminder of past stupidity in believing that kind, loving jesus, would (on behalf of old yhwy) look after me when he 99% of the people on this earth.. .

in case you're wondering i found it on a pinterest page.. proverbs 8, of course.

personifies wisdom - and the passages are controversial and the subject of some academic analysis (e.g.

fulltimestudent

Thank you, Sea Breeze, for responding. For me, it's not an issue of having a particular mind-set. My desire is to live an evidence based life. An idea for which there is little evidence has to be left in the 'grey zone.' All of us once made the mistake of NOT really attempting to analyse the concepts presented to us by the jws. I hope I never make that mistake again.

I will consider the evidence you suggest

17

Jesus Creates a Monster

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i recently found this image of jesus, with a caption, a reminder of past stupidity in believing that kind, loving jesus, would (on behalf of old yhwy) look after me when he 99% of the people on this earth.. .

in case you're wondering i found it on a pinterest page.. proverbs 8, of course.

personifies wisdom - and the passages are controversial and the subject of some academic analysis (e.g.

fulltimestudent

More things to consider in my response to Sea Breeze's claim that the mythical yhwh/jesus creative combo, only created 'good things' and in that mythical time of 'goodness' and peace, animals ate vegetation.

Here's a quick overview of the diet of big cats like lions: Tigers and lions are both obligate carnivores, which means that they need nutrients which are only present in meat and cannot survive without eating meat as their primary form of sustenance. It also means that their digestive systems are incredibly bad at breaking down plant matter and turning it into useful material. Feeding them a vegan diet would make them very sick, and then very dead. Could they be vegetarians in a hypothetical world as described in Genesis 1? Such a diet would likely result in a very sick lion and death.

But I am imagining that possibly you know more about this topic than I do. so again I ask you to respond and prove that carnivorous animals that kill to live were designed by yhwh/jesus to be vegetarians.

17

Jesus Creates a Monster

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i recently found this image of jesus, with a caption, a reminder of past stupidity in believing that kind, loving jesus, would (on behalf of old yhwy) look after me when he 99% of the people on this earth.. .

in case you're wondering i found it on a pinterest page.. proverbs 8, of course.

personifies wisdom - and the passages are controversial and the subject of some academic analysis (e.g.

fulltimestudent

So Sea Breeze, may I ask a question about your belief in a biblical paradise that existed before human sin? Genesis 1:30 does indeed claim that the biblical god created a 'perfect' paradise in which ALL living things were herbivores.

My question is, if that is true, that no animal would have been equipped to be a carnivore, so why then are certain life forms equipped to be carnivores, in particular komodo dragons. Other reptiles - crocodiles and snakes - also are ill-equipped to be herbivores. So what would crocodiles and snakes have eaten in that imaginary paradise?

A further question is, just when did the YHWH/Jesus combo create the toxic substances that the komodo dragon uses to kill its prey? Was it before 'sin' entered the world or after? If before, was he using his supposed foresight (something the WT argues he did not) or was it afterwards, which would conflict with the claimed 'rest day'?

Let's take this opportunity to look more closely at poisonous snakes. These snakes have a reservoir of poison, ducts to the fangs, and most interestingly, fangs with an internal duct through which their poison can be injected into their victim. Was that all 'created' before or after 'sin'?

I also wish to refer you to Psalm 104.21 - "The lions roar for their prey, and seek their food from God. (NIV)" So does yhwh or jesus feed other animals to lions? If yhwh feeds lions, why cant he feed deer to komodo dragons or leopards to crocodiles or humans to sharks?

Another question arise out of this discussion. 2 Peter 2:12 (NWT-LP) compares some men to "unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed" Peter believes something you don't accept.

Animals, Peter says "naturally' get caught and destroyed. Why so?

Thank you in advance for your response.