A realisation of what all of us here have learned - It's all a bloody waste of time and energy, And, that's not even going near all the missed opportunities to do something really useful in our lived
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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19
So I was at a jw wedding and guess what!
by nowwhat? inthe major topic of conversation was that almost all do not want to go back to the meetings and field service!
and we are talking very zealous and active witnesses!
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If the Almighty, Powerful, benevolent God had a book written for humans, what would it contain?
by pistolpete ini know for a fact it would not start off with a talking snake, magical fruit, invisible beings that desire beautiful women to have sex with.. and it wouldn’t end with a flying dragon, a two horned lamb, locusts that resembled horses with men’s faces, but with women’s hair and teeth of lions.
and the book wouldn’t allow for hundreds of millions of religions to spurt from it.
i think the first thing a book written by god would have, is that it would be written in a way that all languages could understand without being translated.. regardless of what language you would speak, we could read it and understand what it said.
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fulltimestudent
Has anyone else wondered about the book of Ruth? Why would the holy spirit (triune version or jw version) bother to inspire whatever bible writer wrote it to write down this sto
The biggest lesson it has, is that if you want to get f**ked by a guy - go to sleep at his feet.
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If the Almighty, Powerful, benevolent God had a book written for humans, what would it contain?
by pistolpete ini know for a fact it would not start off with a talking snake, magical fruit, invisible beings that desire beautiful women to have sex with.. and it wouldn’t end with a flying dragon, a two horned lamb, locusts that resembled horses with men’s faces, but with women’s hair and teeth of lions.
and the book wouldn’t allow for hundreds of millions of religions to spurt from it.
i think the first thing a book written by god would have, is that it would be written in a way that all languages could understand without being translated.. regardless of what language you would speak, we could read it and understand what it said.
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fulltimestudent
The god of the bible is more than a little bit dumb!
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So let's discuss the framework of gods plan for a paradise earth
by nowwhat? inso after jehovah kills 8 billion people "for not knowing him'" he is going to resurrect 100 billion humans because " they didn't know him" .
the 8 million jw's will be tasked with educating these ones.
that's 1 jw for every 12k resurrected ones.
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The Deity of Jesus Christ
by Reciprocity infair warning, i am not a jehovah's witness believer, but i am curious about what it is you believe and why you believe it.
so i am interested in talking to you instead of reading about you from my own christian perspective.
after all, who understands what jehovah's witness believes better than a jehovah's witness?
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fulltimestudent
More comments on the Hellenisation of Palestine.
These comments are from Geza Vermes’* “The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English” – ( the Penguin 2004 revised edition, for anyone that wants to check page references).
Commencing Page 52, of that book Vermes describes the increasing Hellenisation of Palestine. Hellenistic (i.e.Greek) cities were built along the coast-Gaza, Joppa, Dor and Acco. To the south of Lake Tiberias, Beth Shean-an old existing village was re-built as the Greek city of Scythopolis and others, with the result that Greek culture, thinking and civilization spread throughout the land.
As far back as 200 BCE there was evidence of Jewish culture succumbing to Greek culture but the strongest evidence of change came, when Antiochus IV Epiphanes set in motion a Hellenising program in Judea, that the Jewish elite eagerly accepted and embraced. Their leader was Jesus, the brother of the high priest Onias III, who changed his name to Jason. This Jason began to Hellenise Jerusalem, built a Greek style gymnasium there and persuaded young Jews to participate in athletic exercises there. Even young priests in the temple exercised there naked. Evidence? Yes! Read 2 Maccabees: (iv, 13-15, New Revised Standard Version)
Quote: “There was such an extreme of Hellenization and increase in the adoption of foreign ways because of the surpassing wickedness of Jason, who was ungodly and no true[e] high priest, 14 that the priests were no longer intent upon their service at the altar. Despising the sanctuary and neglecting the sacrifices, they hurried to take part in the unlawful proceedings in the wrestling arena after the signal for the discus-throwing, 15 disdaining the honors prized by their ancestors and putting the highest value upon Greek forms of prestige. 16 For this reason heavy disaster overtook them, and those whose ways of living they admired and wished to imitate completely became their enemies and punished them. 17 It is no light thing to show irreverence to the divine laws—a fact that later events will make clear.”
What did that writer mean when he wrote. “putting the highest value upon Greek forms of prestige?” He was referring to their acceptance of Greeks cultural standards, including the already mentioned matter of wrestling naked. And, that brought a big problem for young Jews, in ancient Greek culture, men could be naked, but it was shameful for them to expose the head of their penises. This led to these young men, circumcised when young, to try to reverse their circumcised state by lengthening the remains of their foreskins. (You can do your own research on that matter).
In169 BCE, Antiochus IV prohibited Judaism, mandating the death penalty for those who tried to practice it. For many Jews that was too much, and a rebellion commenced (the Maccabean rebellion). In 171 BCE High Priest Onias was murdered and the Zadokite family lost their centuries old hereditary right to the High Priest position. So the process of Hellenization was slowed for a while, but not stopped, and by the time of Jesus, Palestine under mainly Roman control, was again strongly influenced by foreign culture.
Which brings us to the matter of ‘God’ and ‘Gods’ – in my next post.
*Vermes was a British academic and Biblical scholar, born into a Hungarian family of Jewish descent that was forced to convert to Christianity. As a young man he became a Catholic priest and later became a scholar focusing on ancient Judaism and early Christianity.
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The Deity of Jesus Christ
by Reciprocity infair warning, i am not a jehovah's witness believer, but i am curious about what it is you believe and why you believe it.
so i am interested in talking to you instead of reading about you from my own christian perspective.
after all, who understands what jehovah's witness believes better than a jehovah's witness?
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fulltimestudent
To introduce another perspective, from which to view this eternal debate and hopefully some will realise how this perspective allows this argument to be better understood,
What is this 'superior' perspective? - simply the social and intellectual thought in the Palestine of that era.
Something to Palestine around the 330's BCE. Quote: "Alexander the Great conquered Palestine in the late 330s BCE, beginning a long period of Hellenization. In the late 2nd century BCE, the semi-independent Hasmonean kingdom conquered most of Palestine but the kingdom gradually became a vassal of Rome, which annexed Palestine in 63 BCE." - Wikipedia, History of Palestine
That same reference also shows that the infiltration of Greek thinking was occurring long before the 339s BCE.
Quote: "Despite the devastating wars between Greece and Persia, Greek cultural influences rose steadily.[78] Greek coins began to circulate in the late 6th and early 5th centuries.[79] Greek traders established trading posts along the coast in the 6th century from which Greek ceramics, artworks, and other luxury items were imported.[80] These items were popular and no well-to-do Palestinian household would have lacked Greek pottery.[81] Local potters imitated the Greek merchandise, though the quality of their goods were inferior to the Greeks'.[82]"
And another extract notes: "In contrast to the Persians, who stayed out of the internal affairs of the conquered peoples,[118] the Greeks introduced Greek language, culture, customs, religion and architecture to the regions that they controlled - a process called hellenization ("greekification").[119] Hellenization was pervasive in Palestine; speaking Greek and adopting Greek customs conferred many benefits for the upper classes.[120] Hellenistic pottery absorbing Philistine traditions flourished.[121] Hellenization took root first in the densely settled coastal and lowland areas, and only really began to impinge on more backward areas such as Judea in the early 2nd century.[citation needed]
The Greeks also founded many Greek cities, known as poleis, whose residents were granted tax exemptions and other privileges. The poleis had Greek style governments, Greek institutions and temples for the worship of Greek gods.[122]"
The result of that process of Hellenisation was that the Jewish thought patterns of the Palestinians. gradually took on a Hellenistic overlay.
Have you made allowance for that process of Hellenisation in your thinking about Jesus?
Finally, here's a comment by Harold W. Attridge (The Lillian Claus Professor of New Testament-Yale Divinity School). Attridge is a leading scholar of Jewish and Greek literature in relation to the New Testament and early Christianity.
Quote: "How Hellenized was the Jewish religious culture of the time? Jewish culture and civilization during the Hellenistic period was in intense dialogue with Hellenistic culture and civilization, beginning with the translation of Hebrew scriptures into Greek, a translation which survives and which we know as the Septuagint. That's certainly an example of the way in which Greek literary forms and Greek language impacted Jewish civilization and literary traditions. That impact extends far beyond scripture, and we see during the Hellenistic period Jews adopting literary forms of the Greek tradition, and writing plays, epic poems, lyric poems, all in the Greek language. Much of this activity would have centered in Alexandria, the capital of Egypt, but there was similar activity going on in Palestine, and some of these literary products that survive in some cases only in fragments, were probably written in Palestine, by Jews who were adopting these Hellenistic literary modes." - from an article for the American PBS web-site - https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/hellenisticculture.html
So, have you made allowance for that process of Hellenisation in your thinking about Jesus?
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Was told I was not progressing!
by Overrated inyou're doing everything you can, meeting attendance, field circus, helping out where you can and you are told your not progressing!?!
as anyone had that happen to them in the "trooth "?.
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fulltimestudent
Overrated: Quote: “You're doing everything you can, meeting attendance, field circus, helping out where you can and you are told your not progressing!?! As anyone had that happen to them in the "Trooth "?”
Searching my fading memories of my former life among ‘B.O.G’s chosen people,’ I do have some memories of discussions among elders about the progress (or, lack of) of individual males.
But what immediately jumped into my mind was not an example of your experience, but where (historically) this practice may have originated.
Some years ago I embarked on an academic study (i.e. a University degree) that focused on China in Asian history. Since I sort of manipulated the optional segments, I also took some courses in Jewish and early Christian history. One of those courses included a study of the Essenes through the lens of the Dead Sea Scrolls using Geza Vermes translation, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English. ( Penguin Classics, Revised edition 2004),
In reading Vermes’ translation of the rules applying to the new members/members of this Jewish cult, I was often reminded of life as a JW.
The Essene communities were ruled by a ‘Master’ (maskil – Vermes uses the word Guardian). The Guardian was charged with teaching the Community how to live in conformity with the “Book of the Community Rule.” He was also charged with assessing (along with other mature members of the Community) the spiritual progress of each member in his group and to rank them according to their progress.(page 29 of this edition). This was done every year, and all the males would be ranked up or down as judged (pages 30 and 31), There’s pages of this sort of stuff including a prohibition on appearing naked to another male member (???) of the Community, and a penalty for going to sleep during a meeting.
Members could be expelled (for breaking some rules, including the curiously termed, ‘fornicating with your wife’ (whatever that meant) and thereafter no member of the community was allowed to speak to them or to associate with them.
So there you are Overrated – some believers in bloody old yhwh have been assessed as to making or not making enough ‘spiritual’ progress in both the past and present.
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Sexual abuse of children by French Catholic clergy,
by MacHislopp inihave received from aeuropean friend the following:.
pope francis on wednesday expressed his personal shame and that of the church at the sexual abuse of children by french catholic clergy, after the scale of the problem was laid bare in a devastating report.. i wish to express to the victims my sadness and pain for the trauma they have suffered," he said during his weekly audience at the vatican.. "and also my shame, our shame, my shame for the inability of the church for too long to put them at the centre of its concerns.. "i pray and we all pray together -- to you lord the glory, to us the shame.
this is the time for shame.".
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fulltimestudent
And,over in Poland more .....
Quote: "WARSAW, Poland — The Catholic Church in Poland announced Monday that it had received 368 allegations of clerical abuse in the past two and a half years.
The claims relate to abuse reportedly committed by 292 priests and religious between 1958 and 2020.
A report released June 28 by the Institute of Statistics of the Catholic Church said that the allegations were made between July 1, 2018, and Dec. 31, 2020."
The National Catholic Register. - https://www.ncregister.com/cna/catholic-church-in-poland-reports-hundreds-of-new-abuse-allegations
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Probably, the tip of the iceberg, as not everyone reports abuse.
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China About to Screw Your Life Again
by Simon inchina's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..
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fulltimestudent
Quote: "True, that China has produced a lot of junk, piling up in our landfills, ut they also have produced value for many of their suffering people."
Let's be honest about this point, China, makes goods with varying qualities, for sale in their own internal markets and for sale fo whoever wants to buy them. The people in any non-Chinese country, who make a decision to buy those goods, are the various local importers and wholesale distributors in that (your?) country. And, the people (end-user) who make the final buying decision, choose between a number of manufactured items with differing qualities and differing price points. I doubt that anyone in your country forced you to buy any product.
If you visit China and attend a trade show (for any industry), you will be able to see for yourself the wide range of qualities that are available. During one of the 14 visits I've made to China in the last 21 years, I was walking around the backstreets of Suzhou and found a street with about 20 stores selling restaurant/hotel catering equipment for all levels of the industry (I then worked in this field). There were cheap products suitable for street vendors and high quality products suitable for 5 star hotels. The iphone you may use, was likely made in China. Personally, I use a Huawei. Why? Because it cost me Aust$190 and it does all I want a phone* to do. GM manufacture cars in China for export to the USA. I'm sure they would not do that if quality standards could not be maintained.
* My phone was scammed once and locked (not sure how)-someone, with an Indian accent, asked me to send $17,000 to them in Los Angeles and they'd unlock. I went to the Sydney Huawei office and they unlocked it for me in 15 minute.
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China About to Screw Your Life Again
by Simon inchina's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..
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fulltimestudent
I'm not sure how to compare the Spanish (with a population of less than 50,000,000) experience, which was not backed by a huge mass movement of population, with the Chinese experience (and a movement of more than 800,000,000).
I'm reasonably sure that these private, Chinese companies, acting as developers, would have made serious errors of judgement, at times. and built tower blocks in town and cities that never sold. On the other hand, they made a lot of money in the cities where the mass-migration landed
But, is a voluntary decision to invest in a development, really 'fraud'?
One point I didn't mention about the general situation in China, is that as millions were lifted out of poverty, some were not - and for the last few years the focus has been on lifting the remaining few million living in extreme poverty, out of that situation. Not by helping them to live in cities, but by improving their incomes and housing in village situations. Not much help for a company like Evergrande. The possible real problem for Evergrande is that the Owner and his management team took their eyes off the ball. And, now he pays the price for that mistake.
But is the Evergrande hassles really going to affect the world? ere's an opinion by a guy called David Goldman, Apparently a Republican voter (who says he voted for Trump 5 years ago) He was once a N.Y. financier with strong links to Israel, who, a few years ago, bought the Asia Times and based it in Hongkong. I understand he has good connections all across the business world.