this is not a new story.
the japanese military in ww2 were barbaric in the way they treated captured servicemen.
i was about ten when my father's best friend came home from a japanese prison camp.
Looking for something else just now, I came across this drawing:
Its from an American Journal and portrays the British Army in India executing captured Indian soldiers (after the Indian mutiny) by strapping them to the muzzle of a cannon and blasting them to bits. It was intended to scare the sh*t out of Indians.
Can't really be compared to what the Japanese military did, but the image demonstrates that unreasonable cruelty is not confined to one particular race or military.
as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.
i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.
so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.
True to the End18 hours agoI researched original Hebrew and Greek meanings of the various words used for God.
Thank you for going to so much trouble. TTTE.
Could I just change the perspective on that first line (just a little bit).
Can it be stated this way, that you researched the words, that the authors of the ancient document used, and which are often translated by the English word, 'god.'
I suggest that perspective, because our language is secondary to the original language.
I was planning next to post on the expressions, 'son of god' and 'son of man', which are sort of critical to the discussion, but I'll hold that for a few days, while we clear this bit. (Anyway, I must also produce an outline for a 5000 word essay, right now).
Do you think you could give an opinion on the word 'pelach' often translated 'serve,' but also holding the potential meaning of 'worship?'
lack of self-control in eating, drinking, and pursuit of pleasure;.
so, let me get this straight.
enjoying a fancy meal, appreciating the finer qualities of libations and deciding to enjoy life by pursuing pleasures (bike riding, hiking, camping, fishing, reading, movies, golfing, etc.
Stuckinarut2an hour agoMore info re the Australia bethel fulltimestudent :
There was another drunk in charge during the 50s / 60s? named Bro Reece...
Then there was another rebel / drunk named John Wilson...
Now there is another indulger of the liquid named Viv Mouritz...
Reece? I think I should know the name, but can't bring something definite to mind.
The tender-hearted Ted Jarasc was BO when I first came in the 'truth', and my constantly fading memory places John Wilson next on the throne. Perhaps Reece was late 1940's
Another story. Bro Mac (Macgillivray), was in charge of the branch in the 1940's when the witnesses were banned and the army took control of bethel. The bethel family were allowed to keep living there. So Bro. Mac goes out one night and imbibes too much spirit, and when he came back to the bethel home (in Strathfield in those days), he was, of course, challenged by the duty sentry. Mac, made the wrong reply - so the sentry shot him. Didn't kill him, though.
I never ever thought of John Wilson as hitting the bottle hard. Rather liked john, also. I could talk to him.
Viv Mourtiz. His return to Aust. was after my time.
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DATA-DOGan hour ago
Madzay?!? Is he the owner, or related to the owner of MADZAY?!?!
Yup, same family, DD. The story is that this print shop was set up by the WTS/Knorr during WW2, they printed the WT in that print shop, located on one of the border lakes between the USA and Canada, and transported them to the USA (?) by speed boat.
After WW2 Dave's father bought the print shop from the WTS, and all these little bitsy things have supported them since. I think, if I recall clearly, that most of the family have pioneered on the proceeds.
Dave's end was sad.
i'm not so much into gay issues as i am into right wing fundamentalist issues but what they say about gays is irksome and at times dangerous.
when trawling the internet for their statements i find that 80% of what they have to say is about gays, more so than abortion or even obama.
i could shrug it off as pathetic ignorance unworthy of a rebuttal if it weren't for the occasional psychos like the one below.. rarely do they explicitly state these opinions but in this video they show their true colors.. this harlem pastor is calling on 'christians' to die and kill for the sake of their beliefs.
The whole attitude tells us, that while some Christians focus on the love bit, the overall theme of the Bible is hate (of the perceived enemies of god).
On the whole, the pastor' statements tell us a lot about the religion.
But I wanted to comment on the pastor himself. There's a lot research work that indicates that homophobic hate is first of all directed internally, and is an attempt to deal with the homophobe's own attraction to the same sex.
Havn't got time to go searching for it today, but I'll try and get to it in the next few days.
i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.
that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.
the israelites did not leave egypt.
full-time student , I meant no offence by my comments ,I was trying to be fair and point out that Christians also bring bias to the evidence .
Jan
Thank you for the clarification, Jan. Actually I took no offence. We can all be biased in some way, but the 'peer-review' system allows for correction of the bias.
i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.
that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.
the israelites did not leave egypt.
SimonSays. I believe you just answered the point I was making. Science and archeology are refutable. The contradictions among their own scholars make that argument not the bible. So once again, unless you’re stating you were there, it’s all a hypothesis.
So science and archeology are refutable, but the bible is NOT. It is not open to critique, it is not open to 'mistakes', it is not open to error?
Is that your stand?
So please answer, who was there when one or two million people walked out of Egypt?
You quote as evidence, a hoax statement on one hand, and faked images (or, falsely labelled images) on the other.
Then claim its just another theory. Sorry, mate. that's just bullsh*t
lack of self-control in eating, drinking, and pursuit of pleasure;.
so, let me get this straight.
enjoying a fancy meal, appreciating the finer qualities of libations and deciding to enjoy life by pursuing pleasures (bike riding, hiking, camping, fishing, reading, movies, golfing, etc.
cappytan:
Symptoms of spiritual fatigue include: lack of self-control in eating, drinking, and pursuit of pleasure;
Haha and some haha!
From my mental files of the Australian witness scene;
1. David Madzay, second in charge in the Australian Branch.
A really nice bloke (well, I thought so) but drank far too much. So was the Aussie branch partly controlled by guy with spiritual fatigue?
2. Again the Aussie branch. And Brother Joseph Rutherford comes avisiting. OK - in an annex to the Strathfied Bethel, called the 'White House' ( still there, its actually in Homebush, I often go past on the train, and always it reminds me of this story told be a lady I shall call, Sister Lackey.
Sister Lackey, was hardly in the truth when her Catholic family tossed her out, so she finishes up as a lackey at the 'White House.' When Brother JR comes, they have a banquet, grandly set table, lots of courses and wine etc. You know the shit!
And standing behind every seated guest (all the spiritual bigwigs, I guess-grin) was a "waiter" was a lackey with folded napkin over their arm, standing straight (no slouching in front of Yahweh/Jesus).
So was the whole world-wide witness work overseen by a man (J.R.) with 'spiritual fatigue?'
this is not a new story.
the japanese military in ww2 were barbaric in the way they treated captured servicemen.
i was about ten when my father's best friend came home from a japanese prison camp.
As I said, its not a new story. (except maybe the bit about MacArthur issuing pardons)
Here's another account of torturing Chinese in Manchuria. Written by a Japanese Professor.
Why Japanese doctors performed human experiments in China 1933-1945
- Takashi Tsuchiya
Associate Professor, Department of Philosophy
Osaka City University, Osaka, Japan
Email: [email protected]
Eubios Journal of Asian and International Bioethics 10 (2000), 179-180.
1. "Factories of Death"
From 1933 to 1945, Japanese doctors in China performed thousands of cruel experiments on Chinese, Russians, Mongolians, and Koreans and killed all of them. At Unit 731 alone, at least 3,000 people were tortured and murdered. In addition, similar human experiments and vivisections were done at four branches of Unit 731, four other "Boeki Kyusui Bu" (Anti-Epidemic Water Supply and Purification Bureaus), "Gunju Boeki Sho" (Anti-Epizootic Protection Units) including Unit 100, the Manchuria Medical School, and army hospitals (1).These experiments and vivisections can be classified under the following four categories.
(1) vivisections for training newly employed army surgeons
At army hospitals in China, army surgeons did many vivisections on Chinese prisoners. These doctors performed appendectomies and tracheostomies on the prisoners, shot them and took bullets from their bodies, cut their arms and legs and sewed up the skin around the wounds, and finally killed them. This surgical practice was purportedly part of the training program of newly employed army surgeons to teach them how to treat wounded soldiers at the front lines. However, since in these "training" careful skill to avoid the patients' needless harm and death was not required at all, the main purpose seems to have been to make surgeons desensitized, rather than to make them skillful.
(2) intentional infection of diseases
At the research faculties of the "Boeki Kyusui Bu," including Unit 731, researchers infected prisoners with many kinds of diseases, for example, plague, cholera, epidemic (kidney) hemorrhagic fever, tuberculosis, typhoid, tetanus, anthrax, glanders, typhus, and dysentery. The purpose of this intentional infection was to seek the pathogen of the disease (for example in the case of epidemic hemorrhagic fever), to measure the infectiousness of the pathogen, to select more infectious strains, to investigate the effect of bacteriological weapons, etc. The subjects were dissected after their death or vivisected to death.
(3) trials of nonstandardized treatments
Many prisoners were killed during trials of nonstandardized, unestablished, and unusual "treatments." Many kinds of vaccines in the development stage were tried directly on prisoners, with no prior trials on animals. As another example, searching for treatment for severe frostbite, Dr. Hisato Yoshimura made the prisoners' arms or legs suffer severe frostbite and then warmed them with hot water. When the temperature of the water was over 50 degrees centigrade, the skin and muscles came off. Some other doctors tried horse blood transfusion, which was said to be developed for emergency transfusion to wounded soldiers at the front lines where there is no blood supply.
(4) learning tolerance of the human body
There were deadly experiments with airtight chambers at Unit 731, the same ones as those conducted at the Nazi concentration camps. Some prisoners were forced to breathe poison gas. Others were killed by lowering the air pressure. In addition, there were doctors who only wanted to know how much air could be injected intravenously, how much bleeding brought prisoners to death, how many days prisoners could live with no food or water or only water without food, or how high electric current or voltage human beings could bear. There were also many trials of newly developed weapons with human subjects.
Reference: http://www.eubios.info/EJ106/EJ106C.htm
this is not a new story.
the japanese military in ww2 were barbaric in the way they treated captured servicemen.
i was about ten when my father's best friend came home from a japanese prison camp.
This is not a new story. The Japanese military in WW2 were barbaric in the way they treated captured servicemen. I was about ten when my father's best friend came home from a Japanese prison camp. I wasn't allowed to see him, but for weeks my father would mutter, "The bastards, the bastards!"
But those guys got off lightly. The worst treatment included all kinds of spurious medical experimentation.
This story includes that type of thing:
Japanese admit conducting wartime vivisection on captured Americans at Kyoto Imperial University
Date
April 9, 2015 - 9:43AMTokyo: A university museum in Japan has broken a seven-decade taboo on discussing the dissection of live American prisoners of war by medical personnel.
- Julian Ryall
The museum opened on Saturday in the grounds of Kyushu University, in the city of Fukuoka, and details more than a century of innovation at one of Japan's foremost medical schools.
But one small section provides details from the Second World War of a darker chapter in the university's history, according to Kyodo News.
.....
Nine of the crew were taken into custody, with Captain Marvin Watkins separated from his men and sent to Tokyo for interrogation. The remainder were handed over to a military physician and transported toKyushu's Imperial University College of Medicine, the predecessor of the modern-day institution.
In testimony against 30 doctors and university personnel presented to a hearing of the Allied War Crimes tribunal in Yokohama in 1948, it was claimed that doctors gave the prisoners intravenous injections of seawater to test if it could serve as a substitute for sterile saline solution.
Others had parts of their livers removed to determine if they could survive. Another experiment was to determine whether epilepsy could be controlled through the removal of part of the brain.
None of the crew of the aircraft survived and their remains were preserved in formaldehyde until the end of the war, when the doctors attempted to cover their tracks by destroying the evidence.
One doctor committed suicide in prison before the trial and charges of cannibalism were dropped due to a lack of evidence, but 23 people were found guilty of carrying out vivisection or the wrongful removal of body parts.
Five were sentenced to death, four received life prison terms and the rest received shorter sentences.
Two years later, General Douglas MacArthur, the military governor of Japan, commuted all the death sentences and reduced most of the prison terms. By 1958, every one of the people involved in the case had been released.
i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.
that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.
the israelites did not leave egypt.
So after those digressions, what are we left with?
This! The archeological evidence demonstrates an Egyptian presence in Palestine at around the time that the Exodus was supposed to take place.
There is no supporting evidence for such a mass movement of people from Egypt to Palestine (Canaan). It is an entirely mythical story, as at least some modern Jews recognise.
And that means the Passover meal is based on an non-existent event - and if the Christian Memorial* (for JW Christians) is based on the Passover - then it too loses its historical roots.
* There's a possibility that the early Christians that Paul speaks too about a sacred meal, copied that off other religions of the time who also had sacred meals. The followers of Mithraism for example).
