Posts by fulltimestudent

21

Who were the Sadducees and the Pharisees?? Are there similarities between them and JW's??

by confuzzlediam in

last month, i had the privilege of traveling to jamaica with a study abroad group from my community college.

while there, we went to a place called my father's house in which severely disabled children lived when they had no one else to take care of them.

as part of their day, they hold worship in a small, outdoor meeting place.

fulltimestudent

You can also access the DSS on line.

Try: http://www.ibtimes.com/dead-sea-scrolls-online-text-available-thanks-google-video-links-318984

and

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/project

21

Who were the Sadducees and the Pharisees?? Are there similarities between them and JW's??

by confuzzlediam in

last month, i had the privilege of traveling to jamaica with a study abroad group from my community college.

while there, we went to a place called my father's house in which severely disabled children lived when they had no one else to take care of them.

as part of their day, they hold worship in a small, outdoor meeting place.

If you want to look for similarities, take a good look at the Essenes, and buy a copy of "The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English." (Penguin, 1997) translated and with editorial comments by Geza Vermes.

Product description
The discovery of the "Dead Sea Scrolls" in the Judaean desert between 1947 and 1956 transformed our understanding of the Hebrew Bible, early Judaism and the origins of Christianity. These extraordinary manuscripts appear to have been hidden in the caves at Quumran by members of the Essene community, a Jewish sect in existence before and during the time of Jesus. Some sixty years after the Scrolls' first discovery, this revised and much expanded edition of "The Dead Sea Scrolls in English" crowns a lifetime of research by the great Qumran scholar Geza Vermes. As well as superb translations of all non-biblical texts sufficiently well preserved to be rendered into English, there are also a number of previously unpublished texts, and a new preface. Since its first publication in 1962, "The Dead Sea Scrolls in English" has established itself as the standard English translation of the non-Biblical "Qumran Scrolls" and as giving an astonishing insight to the organization, customs, history and beliefs of the community responsible for them.

131

On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

by Perry in

child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

what is new is their institutionalization.

but even that isn't totally new.

fulltimestudent

TTWSYF12 minutes ago

There were certainly moral people throughout history, but there was no standard of morality until the church established it.

This is plain bullshit!

There were 'standards' - there are a number of west Asian 'standards' (if you want to say that there is such a thing as a standard). In Hellenic thought, there were the pre-Socratic thinkers, then Socrates, Aristotle and Plato, without even mentioning the Stoics.

Early Christians drew on the ideas of the Stoics and Plato in particular.

Going East from the Mediterranean early Buddhism certainly established "standards' of morality with a strong emphasis on compassion. In East Asia, Kongzi (Confucius - 6th C BCE) established a systematic morality that influences East Asia until now. His near contemporary Mozi taught a system of Universal love, that is more detailed than the vague references Jesus makes to 'love.' Standards exist in all these systems of thought.

Take your head out of the nether regions of Christianity and look around at the real world.

2

Pay now - Live later. The True Price of the Christian Reward.

by fulltimestudent in

i apologise for not being able to refrain from making a joke out of this thread, but the topic is rather humourous.. i've just bought peter brown's (the illustrious historian) latest book, "the ransom of the soul - afterlife and wealth in early western christianity," and am in the process of reading it.

its quite amazing how soon money entered into the early churches relationship with individual christians,.

may i recommend it for those who may still harbour illusions about jesus and his church.

fulltimestudent

I apologise for not being able to refrain from making a joke out of this thread, but the topic is rather humourous.

I've just bought Peter Brown's (the illustrious historian) latest book, "The Ransom of the Soul - Afterlife and Wealth in Early Western Christianity," and am in the process of reading it. Its quite amazing how soon money entered into the early churches relationship with individual Christians,

May I recommend it for those who may still harbour illusions about Jesus and his church. (not that Brown comes across as anti-Christian. As a good historian he records his research with a straight bat).

Here's a couple of reviews (courtesy of Amazon) :

In this visionary short study, Peter Brown links two themes which are rarely brought together: Christian views of the afterlife between the second and seventh centuries,and the way in which relations between God and the faithful, living and dead, were mediated by wealth… Beginning with the teaching of Jesus that one should give away what one has, Brown traces a trajectory of almsgiving over six centuries… Brown has rarely published a book without creating a new field of study and endowing it with new research questions, and here he does it again. This beautifully written volume which is eminently accessible to non-specialists holds special interest for Catholics. As it leads reader from the ancient into the early medieval world, it speaks especially to the evolution of Catholic tradition and doctrine… This is an absorbing, thought-provoking book, which prompts reflection on the modem as well as the ancient world, and on the secular as well as the religious sphere. (Teresa Morgan The Tablet 2015-04-11)

[An] extraordinary new book… The new work, which is one of [Brown’s] shortest, is also prodigiously original―an astonishing performance for a historian who has already been so prolific and influential… [It’s] a completely fresh look at the issue of Christian wealth and giving, with special attention to changing perspectives from the mid-third century to the late seventh… [An] extraordinarily vivid panorama of money in the early church… Peter Brown’s subtle and incisive tracking of the role of money in Christian attitudes toward the afterlife not only breaks down traditional geographical and chronological boundaries across more than four centuries. It provides wholly new perspectives on Christianity itself, its evolution, and, above all, its discontinuities. It demonstrates why the Middle Ages, when they finally arrived, were so very different from late antiquity. (G. W. Bowersock New York Review of Books 2015-05-21)

17

Indian Paradox

by fulltimestudent in

while researching a comment on the long-running naga rebellion in india, i came across this charming image.

a woman wearing a burqua (so obviously muslim) walks her son to school.

its described as being a festival day, so the boy is dressed as the lord krishna.. from the indian newsnation: http://www.newsnation.in/photos/entertainment/only-happen-in-india-1021/slide1#more.

fulltimestudent

While researching a comment on the long-running Naga rebellion in India, I came across this charming image

A picture with Few questions

A woman wearing a burqua (so obviously Muslim) walks her son to school. Its described as being a festival day, so the boy is dressed as the Lord Krishna.

From the Indian Newsnation: http://www.newsnation.in/photos/entertainment/only-happen-in-india-1021/slide1#more

For anyone unfamiliar with Indian history, India has a long and large Muslim presence.

A Wikipedia entry states:

According to a 2006 committee appointed by the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, if the current trend continues, by the end of the 21st century India's Muslim population will reach 320 to 340 million people (or 18-19% of India's total projected population).[18] Islam is the second-largest religion in India, making up 14.88% of the country's population with about 180 million adherents (2011 census).[19][20] India has the third largest population of Muslims, after Pakistan and Indonesia.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

131

On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

by Perry in

child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

what is new is their institutionalization.

but even that isn't totally new.

fulltimestudent

Perry: Child murder, Sodomy & corrupting the Human Genome are not new sins, they are old ones. What is new is their institutionalization. But even that isn't totally new. It's all happened before..... before the flood and in Sodom & Gomorrah.

Is Perry relying on the bible for his reference to Sodom and Gomorrah?

If so, I wish to hell that Christians would read their own stupid book. What does the Bible itself (outside of the actual Genesis story) tell us about the sin of Sodom?

Outside of the biblical references that threaten people (yawn!)with the same destruction that Sodom experienced we have two key texts that describe the sin of Sodom. One is Ezekiel 16:49, here is that text from a few versions:

New International Version
"'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
New Living Translation
Sodom's sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door.
English Standard Version
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
New American Standard Bible
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.

So the sin referred to in that text (and, I guess Perry would believe the verse to be inspired) tells us that sodomy is actually, arrogance, overeating, unconcern and not helping the poor and needy.

Based on that definition of 'sodomy' Perry will find more sodomites in his new church than in all of San Francisco. Stand up in church on Sunday Perry, and tell them all those sinning Christians, str8 - if they are a bit fat from over-eating, God's gonna burn them all up.

-------------------------------------

OK the second key text is Jude verse , and based on the various renderings offered below, we can see the translators are having a bit of problem finding the right English words to convey the sense of the Greek words they are translating. So let's just accept the usual claim, that it was a direct reference to the Sodom story. So did this bible author get a mental email directly from the Yahweh/Jesus combo God, or what? Scholarship seems fairly well in agreement that Jude (thought to be the Jude who was the brother of Jesus) just copied that from 1 Enoch, which, of course, brings some problems. The writings known as Enoch are thought to be Jewish from the Hellenic period, and are not accepted as scripture by either Judaism or Christianity (excepting two small Orthodox churches). So for Jude to quote from Enoch is a bit like using you Pastor's sunday sermon as a reference

New International Version
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
New Living Translation
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.
English Standard Version
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
New American Standard Bible
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

If we eliminate Jude 7 from the discussion on the grounds that it uses a spurious book, and focus on the Genesis version and Ezekiel's view. You'll have to agree that the use of the word sodomy as a synomyn for anal sex, is not well supported in the Bible.

And, when we realise that no biblical text stops a husband from having anal sex with his wife, we start to wonder what's going on in the minds of these people who are so angry about gays. There are some serious mental disturbances on view.

131

On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

by Perry in

child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

what is new is their institutionalization.

but even that isn't totally new.

fulltimestudent

FayeDunaway: Which brings me to a question, have they found the 'gay' gene?

No! but ...

1. Epigenetics may be a critical factor contributing to homosexuality, study suggests
Date:
December 11, 2012
Source:
National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis (NIMBioS)
Summary:
Epigenetics -- how gene expression is regulated by temporary switches, called epi-marks -- appears to be a critical and overlooked factor contributing to the long-standing puzzle of why homosexuality occurs. According to the study, sex-specific epi-marks, which normally do not pass between generations and are thus "erased," can lead to homosexuality when they escape erasure and are transmitted from father to daughter or mother to son.
Reference: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121211083212.htm

2. Male Homosexuality Can Be Explained Through A Specific Model Of Darwinian Evolution, Study Shows
Date:
June 18, 2008
Source:
Public Library of Science
Summary:
An Italian research team found that the evolutionary origin and maintenance of male homosexuality in human populations could be explained by a model based around the idea of sexually antagonistic selection, in which genetic factors spread in the population by giving a reproductive advantage to one sex while disadvantaging the other.
reference: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617204459.htm

24

What percentage of the population are gay?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

during the long debate on the question of gay marriage, there have been many competing answers to the question of, "how many people are gay?".

a very anti-gay christian minister in sydney, the reverend fred nile, (who is also a member of the state parliament) claims that the percentage is as low as 1%.. some university (u.of new south wales) research in sydney has suggested 5%, but the authors of the study cautioned that there was a problem in the fact that an unknown number of respondents would likely not admit to being gay.. there are other problems in asking the question.

for example, what does being gay mean?

fulltimestudent

PaintedToeNail :27 minutes agosparrow-Just a question, with no malice or sarcasm intended, would you find it very interesting and touching if a hetro married couple had one member having sex with a member of the opposite sex or would you call it adultery? I saw the same documentary and wondered if the women would've stayed if the person their husband was attracted to was another woman.

I do not believe I've seen that documentary, but here's some random thoughts. First in most large cities its likely not too difficult to find some couples like the above. But, you can also find some sad experiences. Seen a few in Yahweh's spiritual paradise. Most women would find it too much to have to share their husband with his boyfriend.

That's one reason I support gay marriage, hopefully it will stop those sad cases we sometimes saw in the org. where a young gay man, strives to suppress his sexuality and get's married to a young sister, in the belief that Yahweh will change him to hetero. Bullshit! No matter how hard he prays, the gay will stay.

PaintedToeNail: fulltime-This is an interesting topic, I just searched for the same info yesterday. It must be on a lot of minds right now.

I'm sure it is, but even if there was a general average of 10% average of exclusively gay. How will that translate when you include those who are generally str8, but are prepared to sometimes hook-up with someone of the opposite sex. Would we then be approaching 50% of the population?

And what of those interesting males who prefer the company (sexually too) of women, but love to be screwed by their woman wearing a strap-on?

There's an interesting link here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201408/the-curious-couples-guide-strap-dildos

Think I'll leave the subject there, but maybe exclusively str8 sex and str8 marriage is the minority position.

33

Annointed 144k only male?

by JerryTX in

i was told there was new light by a former jw.

i wanted to verify if it was true.

the new light claims the annointed class/144k is always male.

fulltimestudent

John Aquila9 days ago

144k is always male.

Maybe he's gay and that's his view of heaven.

Geez, John - you are treading on quicksand, mate!

After the author of the Revelation, reveals the number of 144,000 who follow the lamb wherever he goes, we are thrilled (joke) to read in 19:7 (NIV) -

" Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready."

(Not sure if you'd like the honeymoon though, for as soon as Jesus the bridegroom has gotten married, he ups and shoots off to destroy untold millions).

But I digress, this text brings out the zaniness of so many"faithful" Chrstians who in their imagined "marriage" to Christ seem to reveal an underlying sexual attraction to Jesus. I have a copy of scholarly study on Chrstian writings on the subject and some of these Christians who imagine themselves as part of the "bride" class get very carried away. I'll save it all for another day, as I'm not prepared to send another day writing about it.

24

What percentage of the population are gay?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

during the long debate on the question of gay marriage, there have been many competing answers to the question of, "how many people are gay?".

a very anti-gay christian minister in sydney, the reverend fred nile, (who is also a member of the state parliament) claims that the percentage is as low as 1%.. some university (u.of new south wales) research in sydney has suggested 5%, but the authors of the study cautioned that there was a problem in the fact that an unknown number of respondents would likely not admit to being gay.. there are other problems in asking the question.

for example, what does being gay mean?

fulltimestudent

During the long debate on the question of gay marriage, there have been many competing answers to the question of, "How many people are gay?"

A very anti-gay Christian minister in Sydney, the Reverend Fred Nile, (who is also a Member of the State parliament) claims that the percentage is as low as 1%.

Some University (U.of New South Wales) research in Sydney has suggested 5%, but the authors of the study cautioned that there was a problem in the fact that an unknown number of respondents would likely not admit to being gay.

There are other problems in asking the question. For example, what does being gay mean? Are we talking about actions or feelings? Some people with feelings of desire for the same sex, have never acted on their desire, and if they are married, as may well be the case, their only sexual experience may have been with the opposite sex. Should they be counted as gay?

A traditional figure (in the west) says about 10% of people have romantic or sexual inclinations toward the same sex, but Professor Gary Leupp, (Professor of History, Tufts University) claims that in 17th Century Japan, male to male sexual behaviour was 'normative,' a word which spears upward toward 50% of the population. That may well have been the case, as Francis Xavier, the first Jesuit missionary in East Asia says that he found the 'sin of Sodom,' was everywhere in Japan, and that the Japanese practised this 'sin' without shame.

It may yet be some time before the Christian inspired feelings of shame and hate die away and allow an honest assessment of the percentage of humans who are attracted (with or without activity) to the same sex.

But in the meantime, its is with interest that we can note the results of a survey,that concludes with a suggestion that the percentage is twenty percent. The Smithsonian magazine reports:

What percentage of the population considers themselves gay? This number has always been hard to pin down: sexuality is fluid, and plenty of people still feel pressured to hide their sexual orientation. But a new study has tried, and come up with a number that’s higher than most.
According to a study from the National Bureau of Economic Research, about 20 percent of the population is attracted to their own gender. That’s nearly double the usual estimates of about 10 percent. The authors explain that their methodology might have something to do with it.
Reference: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-percent-of-the-population-is-gay-more-than-you-think-5012467/

You can access the abstract of the study at: http://www.nber.org/papers/w19508

which also paradoxically reports higher percentages of hostility toward gay humans. From my own readings (for a research paper on 17th century Japan and actors in the early kabuki theatre who doubled as prostitutes) I suggest that the above studies finding of higher rates of hostility is tapping into the problem of self-hatred on the part of many same sex attracted people (aka, 'internalised' homophobia).