Bonsai: The more i think about it, the more I feel an extreme dislike for the apostle Paul. ... What irritates me even more is the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses were more Paulian than CHRISTian.
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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Which bible character do you hate the most?
by Bonsai inthe more i think about it, the more i feel an extreme dislike for the apostle paul.
he was on par with hitler in his treatment of the jews before he "saw the light".
he replaced jesus teachings of love and mercy with a more legalistic, pharisaical concept of devotion to god.. any evil person can come to believe in god and worship him if the scales were literally and miraculously removed from his eyes.
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fulltimestudent
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Galillee, heartland of paganism in Palestine
by fulltimestudent inmy thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek, because we all know that galilee is where jesus family lived and where he started his ministry.. but, the little village of nazareth, where father joseph started his carpentery business and his sons continued the business, was only about 6km from sepphoris.
its conjectured by some that the family business was not very prosperous, being dependent on rural work when, joseph started it.
nazareth was a typical rural village, houses constructed from mud and brick, with maybe a few constructed from stone.
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fulltimestudent
My thread title is somewhat tongue in cheek, because we all know that Galilee is where Jesus family lived and where he started his ministry.
But, the little village of Nazareth, where father Joseph started his carpentery business and his sons continued the business, was only about 6km from Sepphoris. Its conjectured by some that the family business was not very prosperous, being dependent on rural work when, Joseph started it. Nazareth was a typical rural village, houses constructed from mud and brick, with maybe a few constructed from stone. Carpenters would have been employed to provide the wooden beams for the roof and perhaps the doors. Some may have some furniture made from wood - a table, some stools. Other than that work the only other local work would likely have been wooden yokes and ploughs required by peasant farmers.
But Sepphoris, an hour and bit walk away, was different. If Nazareth had limited business opportunities, Sepphoris was paradise. AIt had been burned by the Romans in retribution for rebellions that broke out after the death of Herod the Great about 4 BCE, But Herod's successor, Herod Antipas chose the city as his capital and started a building boom.
No paved roads in Nazareth, but in Sepphoris roads were paved with slabs of stone. Most houses were two stories, offering many opportunities for hardworking artisans in this city of some 40,000 inhabitants. At the top of the tree were Roman villas, that required floor mosaics and wall paintings of naked nubile girls and boys, maybe with the wall painting framed with ornate timber frames made by the most skilled wood workers.
Was this the source of family wealth that allowed Jesus time to read, to wander the country side preaching, and for James to become President of the later Jerusalem Christian congregation and family members to continue in that position after his death? We can only make some assumptions.
But we can say something else about Sepphoris. In the poor village of Nazareth, the peasant families were likely conservative, In wealthy Sepphoris there was a different class. If they were ethnic Jews, they would likely be cosmopolitan, wealthy, deeply influenced by Greek and Roman culture and life-style.
It is not an exaggeration to argue that Sepphoris became the centre of Hellenism in Palestine, Greek thought competed with a number of Jewish sects and even influenced them, so it is often to understand what may have been Jewish in origin and what was pagan.
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Seems odd that the Bible never mentions Pryamids?
by dropoffyourkeylee indoesn't it seem strange that the bible never mentions the pyramids?
how could someone go to egypt at that time and not even so much as mention the huge monuments?
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fulltimestudent
Mephis: There isn't really much directly referencing the pyramids at Giza in any written sources until the Hellenistic period and Herodotus' account. That's not really unusual for ancient buildings. The largest tomb known in Greece, and what appears to be a major cult site, is currently under excavation at Amphipolis. Nobody seems to have bothered mentioning it in any works about Macedonia or Thrace or Greece or even the city itself.
And, there are few clues inside the building to allow a conclusion as to the building's function. But, one of the more intriguing theories emerged recently.
Head archaeologist, Katerina Peristeri and her head architect Michalis Lefantzis recently said they had found three inscriptions with the word 'parelavon' (received) and Hephaestion's monogramme.
And, Hephaestion was Alexander the Great's boyfriend (lover) and had been so since they were young. Their tutor Aristotle described their friendship as "... one soul abiding in two bodies" (quoted from Diogenes Laertius 5.1.20 ).
It is known that when Hephaestion died, Alexander was deeply affected. There is evidence for that among ancient sources, for example, Plutarch says
"... Alexander's grief was uncontrollable ..."
and adds that he ordered many signs of mourning, notably that the manes and tails of all horses should be shorn, the demolition of the battlements of the neighbouring cities and the banning of flutes and every other kind of music. (Plutarch 72.3)
And Arrian relates an account that,
"... he flung himself on the body of his friend and lay there nearly all day long in tears, and refused to be parted from him until he was dragged away by force by his Companions ..."
and, further:
"... for two whole days after Hephaestion's death Alexander tasted no food and paid no attention in any way to his bodily needs but lay on his bed now crying lamentably, now in the silence of grief."
(Arrian 7.14.6 and 7.15.1)
So it may well be true, that the Amphipolis structure is a kind of memorial to honor Hephaestion and perhaps serve as a cultic centre for his worship as a hero.
Or, in a modern sense, as a memorial to a deep committed love between two men that lasted a life time. But also proving that just as the Bible was ignorant of important aspects of Egyptian culture, it was also wrong as to the sexual possibilities between two men.
http://www.theamphipolistomb.com/news/51
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Raining before the Flood?
by GrownMidget ini remember at my teen years when i was studying with a brother that he said to me that there was no rain before the flood.
instead there was this mist that you have.
never before or after this have i heard something like this.
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fulltimestudent
I knew it was somewhere - just took a little time to find it!
When rain falls on mud, it lives small pit-marks. Usually they are worn away before more sediment covers them, but there are some that survived:
In contrast, direct evidence of rainfall in the geological record is very difficult to find. Some limited evidence has been provided by well-preserved rain pits in 1.8-billion-year-old rocks in southwestern Greenland.
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No more printing of WT and Awake in my country.. Shit just got real
by cognitivedizzy inguys .
a letter was just read in out kh stating that all printing of wt and awake is ceased for the coming year and we will just place tracts on fs, countries which were cared by our branch will be cared by other countries...along with this they read the new fs form and stuff about reporting links of videos wtf..lol.
i can't tell which country perhaps that will give away a lot, any one with a similar information.
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fulltimestudent
1. Other posters have mentioned the strong influence that Hindu nationalists have in India. And since the election of the Modi government, they are stronger than ever. It maybe that previous governments shut their eyes to some transmission of funds, but since the Bharatiya Janata Party(BJP) won government, the Hindu nationalist organization Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), mentors the government led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. The RSS appoints a "shadow" minister to watch over everything the government does.
Its likely that the RSS is now forcing the current government to be stricter in stopping any funds from outside India, being sent into India to support non-Hindu religions, hence the present crisis for the JWs.
In the past the society always used richer western branches to finance poorer the work in poorer nations.
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2. The JW.org site has this little homily on finance. I remember that 60+ years ago, the Watchtower magazine used to say the same thing:
Our organization publishes and distributes hundreds of millions of Bibles and other publications every year without charge. We build and maintain Kingdom Halls and branch offices. We support thousands of Bethelites and missionaries, and we provide relief aid in times of disaster. So you may wonder, ‘How is all of this financed?’
We do not tithe, charge dues, or take up collections. Although the costs of supporting our evangelizing work are high, we do not solicit money. Over a century ago, the second issue of theWatchtower magazine stated that we believe we have Jehovah as our backer and that we “will never beg nor petition men for support”—and we never have!—Matthew 10:8.Charlie Russell went a step further - as I recall, he was quoted as saying something like this:
"When the money runs out we'll know its time to stop the work!!!"
That day seems to be close!
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Seems odd that the Bible never mentions Pryamids?
by dropoffyourkeylee indoesn't it seem strange that the bible never mentions the pyramids?
how could someone go to egypt at that time and not even so much as mention the huge monuments?
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fulltimestudent
jwfacts: "In that day there will prove to be an altar to Jehovah in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to Jehovah beside its boundary.
Hmm! few know that the Jews also had a temple in Egypt. It was located at the Jewish colony at Elephantine.
In 2004, the Brooklyn Museum of Art created a display entitled "Jewish Life in Ancient Egypt: A Family Archive From the Nile Valley," which featured the interfaith couple of Ananiah, an official at the temple of Yahou (a.k.a. Yahweh), and his wife, Tamut, who was previously an Egyptian slave owned by a Jewish master, Meshullam.[6][7] Some related exhibition didactics of 2002 included comments about significant structural similarities between Judaism and the ancient Egyptian religion and how they easily coexisted and blended at Elephantine.[8]
Much information of this colony comes from papyrus documents that have been found
So how about this statement?
The papyri suggest that, "Even in exile and beyond, the veneration of a female deity endured."[9] The texts were written by a group of Jews living at Elephantine near theNubian border, whose religion has been described as "nearly identical to Iron Age II Judahite religion".[10] The papyri describe the Jews as worshiping Anat-Yahu (or AnatYahu). Anat-Yahu is described as either the wife[11] (or paredra, sacred consort)[12] of Yahweh or as a hypostatized aspect of Yahweh.[13][14]
Both comments are extracts from a Wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantine_papyri
The history of Israel and Judah is quite different to the Bible accounts.
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Seems odd that the Bible never mentions Pryamids?
by dropoffyourkeylee indoesn't it seem strange that the bible never mentions the pyramids?
how could someone go to egypt at that time and not even so much as mention the huge monuments?
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fulltimestudent
If you wish to believe that there's a grain of truth in the exodus story, that's quite OK. I dont want to dissaude you, but if you're just discussing the matter then its probably important to know that most scholarship dismisses the Exodus as a foundation myth.
And if, again, as much scholarship will assert, that these texts were compiled (even if from earlier stories) during the exile in Babylon, and, (again, if) they were written by members of the elite, for the elite then it would not have been difficult for them to talk about real places located between Israel and Egypt. Many of these men would have travelled between Judah and Egyptian, and after the first group of Jews were exiled, some chose to escape to Egypt. So we have no need to believe that at any time the Israelites/Jews lived in isolation. They were very much a part of the Eastern Mediterraean culture, and knew of towns and roads and geographical features between Judah and Egypt.
This wikipedia entry is likely close to the truth as we know it:'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel
The various national groups of both the bronze and iron ages were interacting. Greek traders (as an example) went up and down the Mediterranean coast and Egyptian ships the other way. Then there were the Phoeniceans who traded all over the Med.sea and the Sea People, both on their own account and as mercenaries. All cited to demonstrate the extent of the interaction just at sea.
I cite that to argue that 'real' things and events woven into a myth doesn't make the myth true.
An editor working on national religious history during the exile, when they had nothing much to do except eat and drink and talk would've had little difficulty in knowing or finding out information that gave an impression of reality,
Somewhere I've posted on the Egyptian Empire and the inclusion of areas which the Israelites later claimed as their homeland - cant find it today. In the meantime you may like to check someone else's work:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/141226/book-exodus-total-b
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Seems odd that the Bible never mentions Pryamids?
by dropoffyourkeylee indoesn't it seem strange that the bible never mentions the pyramids?
how could someone go to egypt at that time and not even so much as mention the huge monuments?
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fulltimestudent
It's only 350 miles from Cairo to Jerusalem. I walked 110 miles through the alps in 7 days, so walking flat terrain a straight shot would only take 3 or 4 weeks at a slow pace.
The countries are literally neighbors so if Egyptians did have slave labor, their next door neighbor wouldn't be a stretch.
Cairo to the red sea is only 84 miles, 3 to 5 days walk. Right on the other side of the Red Sea is Mt Sinai region.
If they could not enter Israel, and were not wandering or in the Egyptian area, then that would have left Jordan. The Wadi Rum Desert or maybe even the ancient city of Petra.Smile! If Egypt was 3-4 weeks walk for an Isrealite to go to Egypt, then it was only 3-4 weeks (probably less) for Egyptian soldiers to go from Egypt to Palestine. And, if you used a chariot, with fresh horses stationed in strategic locations, it would have been a lot less.
As JWs, we never ever thought to question why it was never mentioned that Palestine/Israel was part of the Egyptian empire for long periods of time. This is the start of the ironical religious problem of the Jews. Except in mythology they seldom controlled their land. There were always bigger, stronger Empires with foreign gods conquering their land.
Its not much good having the true god as your national divinity, if the old bugger is too weak to resist the armies of the foreign non-gods, is it?
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Antimatter not so different after all ... poor old Freddy wrong again,another light dims in the JW heavens.
by fulltimestudent inback in the years after ww2, newly discovered antimatter was perceived as destroying ordinary matter, so in one of old freddy's insane nightmares (forget which book, but it was the early 1950's) he envisioned yhwh-jesus hurling antimatter at the hated humans who refused to submit to him, and destroying their bodies bit by bit.. now, his vision dims:.
antimatter not so different after all.
scientists help make first measurement of antiproton attraction.
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fulltimestudent
Back in the years after WW2, newly discovered antimatter was perceived as destroying ordinary matter, so in one of old Freddy's insane nightmares (forget which book, but it was the early 1950's) he envisioned YHWH-JESUS hurling antimatter at the hated humans who refused to submit to him, and destroying their bodies bit by bit.
Now, his vision dims:
Antimatter not so different after all
Scientists help make first measurement of antiproton attraction
- Date:
- November 4, 2015
- Source:
- Rice University
- Summary:
- Researchers share the first measurements of the attractive force between antiprotons. The discovery gives physicists new ways to look at the forces that bind matter and antimatter.
- Kefeng Xin, a graduate student at Rice, is one of a handful of primary authors who revealed evidence this week that the attractive force between antiprotons is similar to that between protons -- and measured it.
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The King James Bible - The King and his Boyfriend
by fulltimestudent inin 1604 king james i of england issued an instruction that a new translation of the bible be prepared.
it was completed in 1611 and the first edition appeared in 1612.. at the front of this bible this notation apppeared:.
"the holy bible, containing the old testament, and the new: newly translated out of the original tongues: & with the former translations diligently compared and revised, by his majesties special commandment".
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fulltimestudent
Another view, still based on narrative theory, is that we all love a good story. It doesn't matter how its presented to us. Today its likely to be a film or TV version. But in times past, they were usually oral stories told by a travelling teller or whoever,
Stories got passed around, and re-told and incorporated into other stories. See if you can think of another version of this story, which I'm re-telling in bits because i havn't got time to type it all out
"The Lord of Heaven above impregnated the daughter of the Lord of the Waters below, and a son was miraculously born, But an evil king killed the prince's father ... and the orphaned prince was cast into the wilderness at birth. There, instead of harming him, the wild beasts took care of him. ..."
That story came from Central Asia. But its possible to find elements of the story from other cultures. We cannot prove that they were borrowed elements or merely reflecting individual hopes and dreams. But if the cultures are in close contact with each other, as say the Israelites, the Egyptians and the Greeks of Asia minor, then we may suspect that borrowing of elements for stories took place.
The David/Jonathon story for instance seems to reflect elements of a story from the Iliad in Hellenic culture that tells of the 'love' between Achilles and Patroclus
And that is a well-known love story that was likely told and re-told by travelling story tellers as they travelled up and down the eastern coast of the Mediterranean.
