fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  70

  Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

  by DwainBowman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

  dose anyone else remember this?

  i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

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  fulltimestudent

  Another aspect of Freddy's "scholarship" has to do with his personal studies. Did he cease all reading of papers by academic scholars?

  I've tried to find out whether, either Freddy personally or the library at Brooklyn bethel subscribed to any of the many journals that focus on OT or NT studies, but no one seems to be able to answer that question.

  In the many readings that have been assigned for class readings over the past few years, I often experienced "echoes" of WT study articles. That may be purely coincidental, or it may be because Freddy had also read some of those journal articles.

  -----------------------

  The really positive thing to come from this thread is that it raises questions about "religious" personalities. Some very strange people populate the centuries of Christian history.

  We can start with Jesus himself. Do the popular images have any validity?

  Here's a forensic reconstruction of what a typical Galilean may have looked like.

  

  You can find that image in this BBC item:

  http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35120965

  More importantly, how did he think? What were his public statements of his ideas really like? Did he sound "noble and distinguished" or was he more like Freddy?

  The Gospel records are at least second hand and unlikely to be by anyone who actually knew him.

  Then there are all the strange people in Christian history. Have you ever studied the life of St Symeon the stylite. A really strange man, but one who came to exercise enough influence to be able to berate an Emperor.

  

  He lived for most of life on top of a pole, his food passed up to him in a bucket and his body wastes passed down in the same bucket.

  There's many more, but I'll save them for another day
• 
  70

  Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

  by DwainBowman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

  dose anyone else remember this?

  i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

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  fulltimestudent

  There's little doubt that FF was an 'interesting' character.

  And before I go to my main point, may I say that my understanding of Freddy's education was that he had studied for the first year in a classics course in some US. university.

  However the Wikipedia entry (which of course, may have been edited) notes:

  He graduated from Woodward High School in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1911 and attended the University of Cincinnati where he studied liberal arts and later (for two years) Biblical Greek,[1][3] with the intention of becoming a Presbyterian preacher.[2] He learned German and could read Latin and Greek and in later years learned Spanish, Portuguese and French and a basic understanding of Hebrew.[3] His association with the Bible Students began after he read some of the literature of Charles Taze Russell. He was baptized as a Bible Student on either November 30, 1913,[4] or, according to Franz, April 5, 1914.[5]
  In 1920 he joined the Watch Tower headquarters staff in Brooklyn, New York[2] and in 1926 became a member of the editorial staff as a Bible researcher and writer for the Society’s publications

  There is no explanation as to why he dropped out of the course in which he was enrolled. But it seems to have something to do with his interest in Charlie Russell's mob. His years of university study were likely 1912 and 1913, and he was baptised as a Bible Student in 1913 or 1914, which I guess was a critical date in BS thought.

  I wonder what he did between his baptism and his joining Brooklyn HQ in 1920?

  I've always thought of him as a frustrated Bible scholar, and perhaps his appointment to the WTS editorial staff in 1926 was the culmination of his own dream. But maybe he did have greater ambitions.

  I think that he became the 'ghost writer' for Joe Rutherford, and was likely filling an important role in NY Bethel by the 1940's as Knorr was starting his era of authority.

  How the partnership of Knorr/Franz developed would be one of the more interesting stories about the WTS.
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  18

  Circumcision and Jehovah's Witnesses - a personal account with research

  by PrimateDave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wrote this article to post on this forum because of the pain that i felt at one time.

  i know that i can never get any acknowledgment from the watchtower bible and tract society because they could never admit that infant male circumcision is mutilation and abuse.

  if for some reason some of you believe with all your heart that circumcision is a good thing, i would request that you read this with an open mind.

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  fulltimestudent

  Divergence on this issue is interesting.

  As I understand it, circumcision is not a standard practise in most European countries.

  It is now, not a standard practise in Australia.

  Why is there such a strong support for it in the USA? Is it a consequence resulting from the strength of the American Jewish lobby?

  Here's a few comments concerning circumcision from an Australian source:

  Link to the page: http://www.circinfo.org/news_2015.html#worth

  Circumcision “not worth it” for Aussie boys

  Circumcision is not appropriate for 21st Century Aussie boys. A definitive article in Australia’s leading child health journal confirms the judgement of Australian paediatricians since 1971 that boys should not be routinely circumcised as a health precaution. In a rebuff to the American Academy of Pediatrics (and by extension the Centers for Disease Control, which repeats its errors) the article endorses the conclusion of the circumcision policy statement issued by the Royal Australasian College of Physicians in 2010, namely, that there is no medical warrant for routine circumcision in the Australian and New Zealand context. As the authors conclude, “There is insufficient scientific evidence to support routine newborn circumcision in Australia …. From medical point of view, the ‘price’ is still too high.”

  Further details on the medical authorities statements page

  --------------------

  Circumcision risks and harms outweigh benefits

  Yet another hard-hitting critique of the American Centers for Disease Control draft circumcision guidelines finds its conclusions unsupported by the evidence and its recommendations invalid: Brian Earp. Do the benefits of male circumcision outweigh the risks? A critique of the proposed CDC guidelines. Fronters in Pediatrics 3 (18), 21 February 2015

  --------------------

  Circumcision always painful for babies

  Circumcision is “one of the most painful procedures a baby can undergo”, and no fully effective anaesthetic method has yet been devised. This is the disturbing conclusion of a paper in the Italian Journal of Pediatrics, which examines the various circumcision and anaesthetic techniques in use and finds none of them satisfactory. The authors note that although “relief of human suffering is one of the most important goals for health care providers”, there have been only half-hearted efforts to eliminate the pain of circumcision, partly because the operation originated as a cultural ritual in which endurance of intense pain was part of the rationale. “Unfortunately, even during clinical trials, babies still undergo circumcision without analgesia, and the continuous production of studies for a better analgesia is the sign that a gold standard has not yet been found”, they write. The authors found that the Mogen clamp was less painful than both the Gomco clamp and the Plastibell, though seem to be unaware that the Mogen caused such a high incidence of additional injuries that a series of lawsuits drove the company out of business. It is increasingly common these days for boys to be given a local anaesthetic with a needle, but if the evidence of many Youtube videos is to be believed, the needle is itself extremely painful and often causes bleeding. EMLA cream, much vaunted by Australian circumcision salesmen, is neither effective nor recommended for use on young babies. As the authors of the present study conclude, “more research is required to find a better analgesic approach, in order to make circumcision a totally painless procedure without stress or discomfort. Present methods do not yet guarantee a total analgesia during this procedure.”

  Source: Bellieni CV et al. Analgesia for infants’ circumcision. Italian Journal of Pediatrics 2013 39:38.
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  4

  Christians, Pedophilia and the Australian Royal Commission

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  the vast majority of christians are not pedophiles and would most likely deplore it.

  so why do so many church organisations try to cover it up?.

  probably there are two reasons:.

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  fulltimestudent

  The vast majority of Christians are not pedophiles and would most likely deplore it. So why do so many church organisations try to cover it up?

  Probably there are two reasons:

  1. Christianity operates on the basis that sins can be forgiven after they are confessed.

  An answer to that of course, is that forgiveness by a religious authority does not negate a crime defined by the state. Illustrating that point is the fact that right now in Australia, the vicious killers of two young girls who were given life sentences for their terrible crimes and who have become Christians, while in prison, are requesting parole. They are being supported (quietly) by members of their churches. But most people think that the two crimes were so terrible that they should stay in prison.

  2. It gives the religion a bad name.

  OK, it may, but as events are demonstrating, a cover up may give the religion an even worse name. The Jws are certainly finding that to be the case.

  But so is the Catholic church.

  The same Royal Commission that put the witnesses on the spot, is also examining the role of the Church authorities in covering up crimes committed by serving priests. And, perhaps we should remember that in other investigations (in many countries) of the role of the Church leadership in these crimes, they have been clearly exposed as guilty.

  The problem is an old one in the church, I'll just give one reference. Look for this book, Fallen Order: A History. by Karen Liebreich. In 1621 Spanish Catholic, Father Jose de Calansanz established the Piarist Order to, "house and educate poor children in Rome." I'll let you work out the rest.

  So let's come back to good old Aussie. A key figure in the Australian branch of the Catholic Church, has been a man by the name of George Pell, now by God's Grace (really ????) Cardinal George Pell.

  There are many accusations that Pell was involved in browbeating abused Catholics into silence and protecting priests accused of Paedophilia. (there are also accusations that he did more than cover-up, but they are so far 'not proved').

  As the scandals of church cover-ups started to grow, Pell was fortuitously transferred from Sydney to Rome. And now when the Australian Royal Commission wants to interview him, guess what? - Pell is too sick to travel.

  So an Aussie singer-songwriter has recorded this song, "Come home Cardinal Pell," that is already causing some controversy in OZ. In the last few words of the song, Tim Minchin (the singer) invites Pell to come home and sue him for slander.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o37_gSoUfh4
  
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  3

  Unhappy Valentine's day - so a wild elephant expresses his feelings by damaging 15 cars in China

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  there are still wild elephants in china, and this one lives in yunnan province in south china (bordering myanmar).. the wild life department that monitors the elephants says that he'd recently been in a fight with another male elephant over when both wanted to mate with a female elephant.

  on the valentine day weekend, this elephant found himself on a main road, and took out his feelings on 15 helpless cars.. however another version of the story states that the elephant was a female.. so ... ?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mycvrrhtq0e.

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  fulltimestudent

  And across the border in Myanmar, the problem may even be worse. According to this New York Times item, changes in the timber industry have made elephants redundant. And the country has a massive problem with elephant unemployment.

  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/world/asia/myanmar-logging-elephants-unemployment.html?WT.mc_id=2016-FEBRIARY-FB-INYT-MC9-AUD_DEV-0201-0229&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=IntlAudDev&_r=0
  

  Quote:

  "Shrinking forests and a law enacted three years ago that prohibits the export of raw timber have saddled Myanmar with an elephant unemployment crisis. Hundreds of elephants have been thrown out of work, and many are not handling it well.

  “They become angry a lot more easily,” U Chit Sein, 64, whose eight logging elephants now work only a few days a month. “There is no work, so they are getting fat. And all the males want to do is have sex all the time.”
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  3

  Unhappy Valentine's day - so a wild elephant expresses his feelings by damaging 15 cars in China

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  there are still wild elephants in china, and this one lives in yunnan province in south china (bordering myanmar).. the wild life department that monitors the elephants says that he'd recently been in a fight with another male elephant over when both wanted to mate with a female elephant.

  on the valentine day weekend, this elephant found himself on a main road, and took out his feelings on 15 helpless cars.. however another version of the story states that the elephant was a female.. so ... ?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mycvrrhtq0e.

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  fulltimestudent

  Apparently this elephant has caused more trouble, this video published in Australia's Canberra Times says he's played up three times.

  http://www.canberratimes.com.au/video/video-news/video-world-news/jilted-elephant-takes-it-out-on-tourists-20160216-4amzi.html
  
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  6

  Two interesting places in the Bible, Bethel and Megiddo.

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first if one looks into the place bethel this is where the king of israel sets up golden calves and tells his people here is your god's go here and to dan to worship.

  he didn't want his people going all the way down to jerusalem.

  he also made his own priests again to take worship away from jerusalem and it's priests the levites.

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  fulltimestudent

  Stop popping those pills CS, they're not good for you.
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  1

  A Bible study web-site that attempts to share scholarly views - Oxford Biblical Studies Online

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the site can be accessed at: http://global.oup.com/obso/about/.

  their stated goal:.

  quote:oxford biblical studies online provides a comprehensive resource for the study of the bible and biblical history.

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  fulltimestudent

  The site can be accessed at: http://global.oup.com/obso/about/

  Their stated goal:

  Quote:Oxford Biblical Studies Online provides a comprehensive resource for the study of the Bible and biblical history. The integration of authoritative scholarly texts and reference works with tools that provide ease of research into the background, context, and issues related to the Bible make Oxford Biblical Studies Online a valuable resource not only for college students, scholars, and clergy, but also anyone in need of an authoritative, ecumenical, and up-to-date resource.
  Easy to search and navigate, this site offers a ready access point for a wealth of Bible text and commentary—including the New Oxford Annotated Bible and five other popular Oxford Study Bibles—under the direction of a team of esteemed scholars headed by Editor in Chief Michael D. Coogan.
  Texts from selected Oxford Bibles can be viewed in side-by-side display with the user's choice of commentary and annotations from the Study Bibles, the stand-alone Oxford Bible Commentary, and A-Z concordances for the NRSV and NAB translations. The Bible content is supplemented by collections of major apocryphal Old and New Testament texts in translation.

  My favourite section:

  Bible verses with side-by-side scholarly analysis of the text.

  Link: http://www.oxfordbiblicalstudies.com/article/sidebyside/bibref/NRSV/commref/NRSV/Gen/1
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  3

  Unhappy Valentine's day - so a wild elephant expresses his feelings by damaging 15 cars in China

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  there are still wild elephants in china, and this one lives in yunnan province in south china (bordering myanmar).. the wild life department that monitors the elephants says that he'd recently been in a fight with another male elephant over when both wanted to mate with a female elephant.

  on the valentine day weekend, this elephant found himself on a main road, and took out his feelings on 15 helpless cars.. however another version of the story states that the elephant was a female.. so ... ?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mycvrrhtq0e.

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  fulltimestudent

  

  There are still wild elephants in China, and this one lives in Yunnan province in south China (bordering Myanmar).

  The wild life department that monitors the elephants says that he'd recently been in a fight with another male elephant over when both wanted to mate with a female elephant. On the Valentine day weekend, this elephant found himself on a main road, and took out his feelings on 15 helpless cars.

  However another version of the story states that the elephant was a female.

  so ... ?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyCVRRHTQ0E
  
• 
  4

  Turn the (digital) pages of the Codex Sinaiticus (and say thank you to the British Library).

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many surviving documents are now digitised.

  the israeli museum has digitised copies of the qumran scrolls and the british library have provided a web-site where you can have a simulated experience of what you would see as you turned the pages of the codex sinaiticus.. http://www.bl.uk/turning-the-pages/?id=b00f9a37-422c-4542-bfbd-b97bf3ce7d50&type=book.

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  fulltimestudent

  The Orthodox church maintains a web-page for the monastery where the codex was found:

  The Holy Monastery of the God-trodden Mount Sinai, Saint Catherine’s Monastery

  That church claims that this is the precise spot where god God spoke to Moses in the fable known as the 'burning-bush' incident. Hence the term 'god-trodden,'

  
  

  The monastery was built at the command of Emperor Justinian I (527-565 CE) an early Christian Emperor. Some claim it to be the oldest monastery still in use.

  Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Catherine%27s_Monastery

  For the curious, there are many things of interest if you have the wherewithal to make this visit. There are other biblical manuscripts and religious icons ...

  
  

  including this one, known as 'The 12th century Ladder of Divine Ascent " showing monks, led by John Climacus, ascending the ladder to Jesus, at the top right.

  Seems to me that it was a type of my life as a Christian. you can see me (the antitype) falling off as I neared Jesus in the top right of the ladder.

  Another interesting document is the

  Quote" The Achtiname of Muhammad, also known as the Covenant or (Holy) Testament (Testamentum) of the Prophet Muhammad, is a document or ahdname which is a charter or writ ratified by the Islamic Prophet Muhammad granting protection and other privileges to the Christian monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery. It is sealed with an imprint representing Muhammad's hand."

  
  

  A tradition is maintained that (quote)

  " Muhammad frequented the monastery and had great relationships and discussions with the Sinai fathers.[3] The document claims that the Prophet (570–632) had personally granted by charter in the second year of the Hegira, corresponding to AD 626, the rights and privileges to all Christians "far and near". It consists of several clauses on such topics as the protection of Christians living under Islamic rule as well as pilgrims on their way to monasteries, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service and taxes, and the right to protection in war." Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad