Posts by fulltimestudent

25

Was told I was not progressing!

by Overrated in

jw
friends

you're doing everything you can, meeting attendance, field circus, helping out where you can and you are told your not progressing!?!

as anyone had that happen to them in the "trooth "?.

fulltimestudent

Overrated: Quote: “You're doing everything you can, meeting attendance, field circus, helping out where you can and you are told your not progressing!?! As anyone had that happen to them in the "Trooth "?”

Searching my fading memories of my former life among ‘B.O.G’s chosen people,’ I do have some memories of discussions among elders about the progress (or, lack of) of individual males.

But what immediately jumped into my mind was not an example of your experience, but where (historically) this practice may have originated.

Some years ago I embarked on an academic study (i.e. a University degree) that focused on China in Asian history. Since I sort of manipulated the optional segments, I also took some courses in Jewish and early Christian history. One of those courses included a study of the Essenes through the lens of the Dead Sea Scrolls using Geza Vermes translation, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English. ( Penguin Classics, Revised edition 2004),

In reading Vermes’ translation of the rules applying to the new members/members of this Jewish cult, I was often reminded of life as a JW.

The Essene communities were ruled by a ‘Master’ (maskil – Vermes uses the word Guardian). The Guardian was charged with teaching the Community how to live in conformity with the “Book of the Community Rule.” He was also charged with assessing (along with other mature members of the Community) the spiritual progress of each member in his group and to rank them according to their progress.(page 29 of this edition). This was done every year, and all the males would be ranked up or down as judged (pages 30 and 31), There’s pages of this sort of stuff including a prohibition on appearing naked to another male member (???) of the Community, and a penalty for going to sleep during a meeting.

Members could be expelled (for breaking some rules, including the curiously termed, ‘fornicating with your wife’ (whatever that meant) and thereafter no member of the community was allowed to speak to them or to associate with them.

So there you are Overrated – some believers in bloody old yhwh have been assessed as to making or not making enough ‘spiritual’ progress in both the past and present.

10

Sexual abuse of children by French Catholic clergy,

by MacHislopp in

ihave received from aeuropean friend the following:.

pope francis on wednesday expressed his personal shame and that of the church at the sexual abuse of children by french catholic clergy, after the scale of the problem was laid bare in a devastating report.. i wish to express to the victims my sadness and pain for the trauma they have suffered," he said during his weekly audience at the vatican.. "and also my shame, our shame, my shame for the inability of the church for too long to put them at the centre of its concerns.. "i pray and we all pray together -- to you lord the glory, to us the shame.

this is the time for shame.".

fulltimestudent

And,over in Poland more .....

Quote: "WARSAW, Poland — The Catholic Church in Poland announced Monday that it had received 368 allegations of clerical abuse in the past two and a half years.

The claims relate to abuse reportedly committed by 292 priests and religious between 1958 and 2020.

A report released June 28 by the Institute of Statistics of the Catholic Church said that the allegations were made between July 1, 2018, and Dec. 31, 2020."

The National Catholic Register. - https://www.ncregister.com/cna/catholic-church-in-poland-reports-hundreds-of-new-abuse-allegations

----------

Probably, the tip of the iceberg, as not everyone reports abuse.

28

China About to Screw Your Life Again

by Simon in

china's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..

fulltimestudent

Quote: "True, that China has produced a lot of junk, piling up in our landfills, ut they also have produced value for many of their suffering people."

Let's be honest about this point, China, makes goods with varying qualities, for sale in their own internal markets and for sale fo whoever wants to buy them. The people in any non-Chinese country, who make a decision to buy those goods, are the various local importers and wholesale distributors in that (your?) country. And, the people (end-user) who make the final buying decision, choose between a number of manufactured items with differing qualities and differing price points. I doubt that anyone in your country forced you to buy any product.

If you visit China and attend a trade show (for any industry), you will be able to see for yourself the wide range of qualities that are available. During one of the 14 visits I've made to China in the last 21 years, I was walking around the backstreets of Suzhou and found a street with about 20 stores selling restaurant/hotel catering equipment for all levels of the industry (I then worked in this field). There were cheap products suitable for street vendors and high quality products suitable for 5 star hotels. The iphone you may use, was likely made in China. Personally, I use a Huawei. Why? Because it cost me Aust$190 and it does all I want a phone* to do. GM manufacture cars in China for export to the USA. I'm sure they would not do that if quality standards could not be maintained.

* My phone was scammed once and locked (not sure how)-someone, with an Indian accent, asked me to send $17,000 to them in Los Angeles and they'd unlock. I went to the Sydney Huawei office and they unlocked it for me in 15 minute.

28

China About to Screw Your Life Again

by Simon in

china's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..

fulltimestudent

I'm not sure how to compare the Spanish (with a population of less than 50,000,000) experience, which was not backed by a huge mass movement of population, with the Chinese experience (and a movement of more than 800,000,000).

I'm reasonably sure that these private, Chinese companies, acting as developers, would have made serious errors of judgement, at times. and built tower blocks in town and cities that never sold. On the other hand, they made a lot of money in the cities where the mass-migration landed

But, is a voluntary decision to invest in a development, really 'fraud'?

One point I didn't mention about the general situation in China, is that as millions were lifted out of poverty, some were not - and for the last few years the focus has been on lifting the remaining few million living in extreme poverty, out of that situation. Not by helping them to live in cities, but by improving their incomes and housing in village situations. Not much help for a company like Evergrande. The possible real problem for Evergrande is that the Owner and his management team took their eyes off the ball. And, now he pays the price for that mistake.

But is the Evergrande hassles really going to affect the world? ere's an opinion by a guy called David Goldman, Apparently a Republican voter (who says he voted for Trump 5 years ago) He was once a N.Y. financier with strong links to Israel, who, a few years ago, bought the Asia Times and based it in Hongkong. I understand he has good connections all across the business world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyRolq7sDyU

28

China About to Screw Your Life Again

by Simon in

china's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..

fulltimestudent

The question of why, this crisis occurred has still not been answered. But, the answer is quite complicated.

First, here's a National Geographic video showing what happened to a village called Houtouwan, on Shengshan Island on the coast of Zhejiang Province. The village, only 49 Km from Shanghai, once with more that 2000 inhabitants, is now nearly deserted with only a handful of people living there. Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5lbLDowqM

The answer will tell you a lot as to how Evergrande and other developers became so big, All the inhabitants left that village for better jobs in a city.

This has been one of the largest movements of people in history. In 1949, at the last census held by the Nationalist government of the GMD (KMT), it was calculated that China had a population of about 450,000,000, of which only about 90,000,000 lived in cities. In 2020, the urban population had grown to nearly 920,000,000. That's an increase to the urban population of about 830,000,000. Some sort of housing had to built for all those people. Imagine that - to try and place that in some sort of context, it's like replacing all the housing stock of the USA - NOT just once, but 3 times.

If that seems a huge undertaking, consider that in the first 30 years of the PRC, urban housing was mainly focused on replacing the hovels that so many city-dwellers lived prior to 1949, The massive growth of city populations only accelerated after (circa) 1980.

In addition to that, a middle class began growing from roughly the same time, Today, the Chinese middle classes are thought to be around 400 million - larger that the entire population of the USA. As the income of these people increased they also wanted better housing.

The development of high rise apartments really only started in the early 1990's, Australia's former Prime Minister John Howard visited Shanghai in (I think this was the occasion) 1997. In his hotel (opposite the then new developments in Pudong) his staff opened the curtains of his room, to reveal the new highrises (mixed office block's and apartments) and Howard reputedly, was shocked and exclaimed, "Shit!! How long has this been going on?"

In 2001 I made my first visit to Shanghai. A local Chinese friend allowed me the use of a small apartment in a high-rise block in Pudong. And this is my criticism of Chinese housing -the apartment was clean, but rather basic, but what surprised me was the general shabbiness of the whole block. It looked as though they had done no maintenance on the common spaces (public areas) from the time it was built some 7 years prior. I know* that in apartment blocks, you've got to keep the maintenance up or it soon deteriorates. At that time it didn't seemed that anyone cared about maintenance. Maybe its changed, 5 years ago (in Suzhou) buildings seemed to be better cared for.

It was in the first decade of the 21sts C that the building boom really grew in China.

The developers of these blocks are private enterprise, not government-owned companies. And, that's one of the problems. As Sydney (Australia) is finding out. private enterprise companies will often take illegal short-cuts. Here, in Sydney there are a number of high rise apartments, where the builders did not build to regulations and the blocks have developed structural problems.

The problems in China, are not structural (as far as I know) but financial. Developers (it also happens here too) ask for substantial deposits and then don't deliver on time. Management have not kept their eyes on the company's financial position, hence these problems.

Even with this huge building program, urban poor still have problems finding accommodation. This 2019 video by the HK based South China Morning Post, tells their side of the problem.

Where Beijing's 'bottom of society' live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1QBjpUuflY

To stop Beijing getting too big, the government is building a new model city about 60 km away called Xiong'an, connected to Beijing by highspeed trains

*I Look after maintenance in the block where I live, and once worked in the fit-outs of buildings.

7

A Question For The Scholarly Re Gilgamesh

by jonahstourguide in

hi all.. read this article re the gilgamesh clay tablet.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-21/us-returns-gilgamesh-tablet-to-iraq/100478858.

how does it impact the dating of the biblical flood?

it seems earlier.. i am going to do some research myself to make a comparison.. it's interesting as i have not previously heard of the tablet but have heard of the.

fulltimestudent

Would a group of approx. 5-7 be sufficient to restart the human race? Is there a scientific answer to that question?

7

A Question For The Scholarly Re Gilgamesh

by jonahstourguide in

hi all.. read this article re the gilgamesh clay tablet.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-21/us-returns-gilgamesh-tablet-to-iraq/100478858.

how does it impact the dating of the biblical flood?

it seems earlier.. i am going to do some research myself to make a comparison.. it's interesting as i have not previously heard of the tablet but have heard of the.

fulltimestudent

OK. Jtg, you can have a lot of fun researching this topic.

There ae various ancient documents, tht have varied ages. But as a general view of the story, it depends on when the genesis account was written. Traditionally, that could be anywhere from the 15th C BCE and the 7th C,BCE,

Some attribute a date of circa 2100 BCE to an initial Gilgamesh document.

Maybe you'll the info in this Wikipedia entry to be helpful:

Quote: "The earliest record of a Sumerian creation myth, called The Eridu Genesis by historian Thorkild Jacobsen,[1] is found on a single fragmentary tablet excavated in Nippur by the Expedition of the University of Pennsylvania in 1893, and first recognized by Arno Poebel in 1912. It is written in the Sumerian language and dated to around 1600 BCE.[1] Other Sumerian creation myths from around this date are called the Barton Cylinder, the Debate between sheep and grain and the Debate between Winter and Summer, also found at Nippur"

- Sumerian creation myth (Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth )

At least this entry is referenced, so you can check back on lots on points that seem controversial.

28

China About to Screw Your Life Again

by Simon in

china's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..

fulltimestudent

Reuters gives a good update on the problem:

https://www.reuters.com/business/fitch-says-possible-china-evergrande-default-may-have-broader-effects-2021-09-15/

and also the German DW News:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UoiO51BIIo

28

China About to Screw Your Life Again

by Simon in

china's economy is wobbling as one of its largest companies, evergrande, is teetering on bankruptcy.. there's a good chance it's collapse will have a knock-on effect on other markets.. so more to thank them for than just the covid virus.. no one should have any dealing with china..

fulltimestudent

Yup! its a serious situation.

Some estimates put EverGrande's debts at US$ 300 million, less than half the Lehman Bros debts in the 2008 financial crisis.

And, is this problem (as below) made even more serious by this - Quote:

What are the details?

In a letter to top lawmakers Wednesday, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen characterized America's financial situation as teetering on the edge of catastrophe, noting that without intervention the U.S. government would run out of cash by next month.

"Based on our best and most recent information, the most likely outcome is that cash and extraordinary measures will be exhausted during the month of October," the secretary said.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/biden-admin-democrats-debt-limit-increase?utm_source=theblaze-dailyPM

23

Anyone have an obvious gay or lesbian in the congregation?

by mickbobcat in

when i was a kid we had a kh with a basement and this guy joe winestien lived in it.

he has passed away i believe.

he was about 24 and used to hang around the young boys.

fulltimestudent

As I get older, I'm starting to forget as memories fade. But here's a few.

1. I was an inexperienced young guy when I got mixed up with yhwh's mob, But, being in a congregation that was very near to the then location of the Aussie bethel, I also got mixed up with the bethel mob. And, I once volunteered to help an older bethel bro. pick up a shipment of books from the docks. As we waited for our turn at the docks this older man turned the conversation to more personal aspects of life. It made me feel uneasy! The unease grew as he started to rub my leg. I don't know how I would've coped if his hand had got higher - but our turn came and the conversation and the leg feel-up passed.

2. Of course, some brothers may have been (or had) SSA (same sex attraction) before they became witnesses, and not necessarily be effeminate (as some of the above observations noted). I'm thinking of a guy who had been a missionary and a C/O in OZ. (He was quite manly - had fought in WW2, been captured by the Germans, escaped an survived in the hills for a long time, until taken off that island by a British submarine). His wife was in a gossip session in field service one day with several sisters, and she let slip a bit of gossip about her husband. Before they got converted she recalled, they were at a party with some of her husband's former friends, and she saw him involved in a long, deep kiss with another young man. So, was he SSA, or what we describe as 'bi' or what? I do know (he told me so himself) that he'd been involved in the Sydney arts scene, before he became a witness, as he'd been trained as an Opera singer by a leading member of that Arts scene. so maybe he was SSA, or just sharing in a common practise among guys in that scene.

3. And, that guy was involved in another interesting experience. A certain Gerald G, was a young circuit servant (as they were called then) who left the truth in non-discussable circumstances. But the bro, (in 2. above) told a group of us one day, that he'd been able to help the young ex-c/s to come back to the 'truth.' He'd heard somehow that bro G.G was working as a barman in a gay bar in inner Sydney, so he went into the bar, talked to GG and persuaded him to come back to the truth. Bro. GG did become a C/O again but the last time I heard of him, was that he'd died. Of what, I never heard.

4. In one congregation I was in a couple of women, one older, one young moved into our territory. Their circumstances caused gossip, so the Cong. Servant (still the old arrangement, at that time) spoke to them suggesting one should move out (He saw only one double bed in their small flat). That caused an almighty row with the older woman, but the younger woman did move out and later married a friend of mine. I never heard anything to say they had engaged in any sort of sexual misconduct, so maybe the older woman was in the right when she blew up and told the 'conservant off.

It's all intriguing, especially when we consider that Palestine in Jesus time was thoroughly Hellenised, and that in Hellenic culture, SSA was acceptable. Even their gods engaged in sex with other men. Zeus, Apollo and Dionysus spring to mind.

Human sexual attraction, (Aristophanes declared) was/is inspired by our attempts to recapture the personality wholeness humans had before Zeus bifurcated primal humanity. Or stated another way, Eros enables lovers to regain the 'lost paradise' of spiritual and physical completeness. So any person's decision to 'join' themselves to another human - is a decision based on their own (likely innate) need for completeness.

Living in a Hellenised Palestine would mean that most Jews likely knew the Greek stories and myths. Note that when (In Matt 8 and Luke 7) Jesus healed the 'Pais' of the Roman Centurion, it is entirely possible that he was healing the Centurion's young lover. So why, does Xtianity make such a bloody fuss about 2 people of the same sex loving each other and never give a shit when people learn to hate other people and when their nations go to war, despartely want to kill the others?