Posts by shepherd

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

shepherd

@djeggnog, you often use carefully worded sentences to get around posting guidline #1 Insulting, threatening or provoking language.

You often hyjack the thread with long ramblings of self-justification, contrary to #10 Posting an off-topic comment.

Frankly, it is no surprise to me to hear you are still a Jehovah's Witness - your attitude reminds me of quite a few elders and their wives I have known over the years. (This sentence is in your style - I do not actually say that your attitude is bad, though some may reach that conclusion :) )

I am glad that being here helps you, (hopefully not just to count hours in FS) but, unless you want to alienate everyone here, you are going to have to learn to be less impressed with your own opinions and more respectful of others.

Back to the topic at hand, (because I do not want to break the rules mentioned above either) the WT has the law on their side if this book is posted online. It is copyrighted.

This evil organization is feeling the effects of the Internet and for that I am very glad - forums like this are able to help those who have been hurt by the GB and their bogus interpretation of scripture.

We do need to keep the fight legal because although the WT says the world is in the power of Satan, they in fact use its laws and agencies to full effect to protect their own interests. It is only they, apparently, in their minds, who can engage in illegal activity (such as in lands that their activities are restricted or in countries like France where they are expected to pay taxes) and say they are obeying god rather than men - the rest of us have to obey the law to the letter. Hypocrisy - hell yes!

21

Copyright, piracy, plagarism, "Fair use": What are they?

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

to be really legal and picky about it if you were to quote me further down in the thread it would be legal to say something like.

it still belongs to them.

and there is no way they would give that kind of permission.

shepherd

Well explained, Lady Lee. It is illegal to copy and upload a WTBS book without their permission, unless it is for a very old book and the copyright has expired and is now in the public domain, like the books of Russell. And yes, you can quote from it if you are discussing it (Fair use rarely allows for more that 10% of the original).

As an example some will remember the Watchtower Quotes website. It contained no commentary, just quotes so that people could read what the JW's have written and make up their own mind. Great idea, but not legal. Because there was no commentary, the site could be sued for breach of copyright. If there had been extensive commentary it would have been legal to quote from the literature.

"This is very different than how the WTS uses quotations. They rarely let the reader know where they got their information from. This is intellectual dishonesty and copyright infringement. And just because they do it doesn't mean we can do the same to them. They can come after us if we take things too far."

Very well said - and, not only do they engage in intellectual dishonesty by not quoting the source, but after quotes have been researched, as in the Creation book, it has also been demonstrated that they like to misquote out of context so that it seems an author has one opinion that supports their contention when in fact they have another.

40

You will no longer be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person.

by shepherd in

"if members of the congregation are known to.

have undue association with disfellowshipped.

or disassociated relatil'es who are not in the.

shepherd

@Mythbuster it depends. First, he could say the son, 'who is basically disassociated' has not actually been officially announced as disassociated, if that was the case. That is a convenient technicality even if it still goes against the principle of it all.

Personally I think shunning is evil, and if someone goes against it, good for them, though I can see the injustice if one can do it and 'get away wth it' and not another.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

shepherd

You do know this website is likely to contain 'nonsense' that goes contrary to the governing body, right? All are welcome, and in time I sincerely hope the comments at this site will help you in your personal spiritual quest.

You edited your post and wrote "My reading of the litigation"...As you say, that is your opinion, and nothing more, nothing less. The case was settled without a judgement and that's that. It was pertinent to the case that the group had earlier admitted to posting the handbook and they tried to use the links argument to circumvent the earlier injunction. You sound as if you are a lawyer - if you are, you should know better than to use a case that was left without a judgement either way to support your argument. Perhaps you do so because there is no case that sets precedent. If you are not a lawyer, say so openly so that people can know you are just expressing your personal unqualified opinion.

I was discussing the legal aspects, for which I am qualified. You can call that worldly 'wisdom' if you wish, and I will say no more on the subject.

40

You will no longer be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person.

by shepherd in

"if members of the congregation are known to.

have undue association with disfellowshipped.

or disassociated relatil'es who are not in the.

shepherd

haha Lady Lee. Yes, this does mention relatives - though how distant they have to be is not discussed. But how could a body of elders disfellowship one who is not directly related and not the other, who is, however distant? It is a minefield and it has no scriptural backing whatsoever.

Maybe the reason this has been relaxed a bit is because so many ignore it anyway. And that goes for elders, who continue to associate freely with their kids after they are disfellowshipped.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

shepherd

"Simon has asked that links are not posted, and it is his site and we should respect that."

- From my first post, in case it was missed.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

shepherd

I would like to comment specifically on the case you have brought up:

The group earlier that year (1999) had posted parts of the Church Handbook of Instructions, and had agreed to take the material down under an earlier temporary restraining order. It later posted e-mail from visitors to the site that gave URLs for other Web sites that had posted parts of the book.

Posting the book is illegal - the group was guilty of posting the handbook and then linking to it later after it was being hosted elsewhere.

In the end the case was settled between both parties. That means the judge did not rule in favor of either party. No legal precedent was set.

http://www.utlm.org/underthecoveroflight/signedsettlementandthankyou.htm

The judge did not rule as to whether posting links were illegal. This case also had the complication that the group admitted earlier posting the handbook onlie, which is illegal. But since the case was settled, no ruling took place on that either.

So, as I have said before, it is still not established in law that posting links to a third-party site is illegal. period.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

shepherd

I sigh.

I don't want glory (if you have a persecution complex, see a doctor) and I don't challenge your motives, which are wholesome. If you read carefully what I said I stated that Simon's wishes should be respected and that people should not post the links.

What I was commenting on was the legal aspects.

The transcript you mention is interesting but you should be aware that no one has EVER been found guilty in the USA for posting a LINK to a third-party site in violation of any part of the DMCA. Almost all of the court transcript quoted are not not the conclusions of the court/judge but from some lawyer trying to support his client's case. In legal terms that has no value at all in establishing legal precedent.

"You're giving bad advice here" - what I am doing is stating the legal facts. If you don't like it that's OK too. I had hoped to allay your obvious but unfounded fears. I know the WTBS can be scary, but they are not the all powerful people you think they are. They cannot get this site shut down because of a few links, and that is a fact.

30

Flock book F-Bomb - do the r&f know?

by laverite in

jw
friends

are the rank and file generally catching wind of the f bomb (you know -- the flock book's leaking and world wide distribution)?

what have you heard?.

shepherd

My information about the Bethel legal depatment says they care very much indeed whether the rank and file can have access to this book! They are doing all they can to get the new elder's manual taken down.

But it is too late to stop it - it is everywhere! So now they are trying to get webmasters to remove the links so it becomes harder to find. They will fail there too, because webmasters should know that it is not illegal to post a third-party link. You're not liable if you link to an online location that contains infringing material. Actually, the DMCA protects against claims that simply posting links are infringing. A Cease and Desist letter can be sent to a Webmaster, but it holds no legal weight. WTBS lawyers know that - they hope you do not!

It is possible for WTBTS to apply for a subpeona to demand the IP and other identifying information of someone posting the file, if the files are hosted inside the USA. Note I said 'posting the file' - not sharing the link. Never mention that you personally uploaded a file, and use a proxy if possible before uploading 'sensitive' files to file-sharing sites, although you should of course never post files that infringe on the rights of the copyright holder :)

DMCA states that, basically, as long as a site removes the file as soon as they get a valid DMCA notification, they are no longer liable. If the file is reposted, a new DMCA notification is needed, especially if the file name is not the same.

40

You will no longer be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person.

by shepherd in

"if members of the congregation are known to.

have undue association with disfellowshipped.

or disassociated relatil'es who are not in the.

shepherd

"If members of the congregation are known to
have undue association with disfellowshipped
or disassociated relatil'es who are not in the
household, elders should counsel and reason with
those members of the congregation from the Scriptures...
If it is clear that a Christian is violating the spirit of
the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does
not respond to counsel, it may be that he would
not qualify for congregation privileges, which require
one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt with judicially
unless there is persistent spiritual association or
he openly criticizes the disfellowshipping decision."

-"Shepherd the Flock of God"- page 116 (bold font added)

They got rid of Ray Franz after they changed the rules and he was seen eating with his landlord who was disfellowshipped. Now he has died they have changed the rules back again - NO GENUINE RELIGION OF 'TRUTH' WOULD BEHAVE IN THIS UNDERHANDED WAY!