Congrats on a first class post. I always knew there was something odd about all the giants supposedly alive hundreds of years after they were all supposed to have been drowned in the flood. This thread may be from the past, but well worth reading.
shepherd
JoinedPosts by shepherd
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35
The enigmatic mystery of the Nephilim, the Rephaim, and the Titans
by Leolaia init has been said that historical memory in oral tradition goes back only a few hundred years before it alters considerably in later retellings, and when even greater time depth is involved the mythic past fills in what has been collectively forgotten.
but myths purporting to relate events hundreds or even thousands of years in the past often contain kernals of historical memory amid the layers of tradition and archetypal folk motifs.
an excellent example from my own reading is that of the inuit eskimo in greenland who have a rich oral tradition about the norsemen who died out over 500 years ago and who originally colonized the land a millenium ago.
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English-language congregations in non-English speaking countries
by dgp ini am under the impression that english-language congregations outside of the united states must serve a purpose, other than just being the place where the missionaries can hang out and catch the occasional english speaker.
i think it's also a way to find the smarter guys in other countries and teach them the language and the jargon they will need if they ever climb up the watchtower corporate ladder.. what do people think?.
thanks.
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shepherd
"I am under the impression that English-language congregations outside of the United States..."
I assume all the JWs living in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and of course the birthplace of English, the UK have English language congregations because that's their mother tongue...:)
As for their existence in other countries where English is not the 1st language - English is the de-facto world language, and is used to bring together JWs from various other countries living there, since most can understand some English.
I don't think there is any effort to find smarter ones.
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Elder body removed Watchtower letter
by Marvin Shilmer inelder body removed watchtower letter.
an elder body was removed last year in california.
most folks have never seen a watchtower letter breaking this news.
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shepherd
No sex orgies, @thetrueone, the local body complained officially about the attitude of their Circuit Overseer (Koehler) and that was the beginning of the end. Basically the CO wanted to renovate and possibly sell off the KH and the local body did not want to do it (Legally they administer the hall). As a result the order was given to merge 2 congregations - this would change the voting results. The elders were also removed.
For me, the reason for removal is facinating. As anyone knows, a JW can choose what congregation they are in, yet this was the basis of the removal:
"When plaintiffs filed a formal complaint against defendant Koehler with the Branch office in October 2009, plaintiffs were subsequently presented with an unfounded charge of insubordination relative to organizational direction during defendant Koehler’s next scheduled visit to the Menlo Park Corporation in February 2010.
As presented during the hearing, this charge stemmed from an administrative matter involving a congregation member. When congregation members relocate to a new area and begin associating with the Christian congregation in their new locale, a record card and letter are typically sent to formally introduce this person to the managers of their new congregation.
The point of discussion in the hearing dealt with a situation where a congregation member still resided in Menlo Park but was employed in the Santa Rosa area. As a caregiver, her employment called for her to stay in Santa Rosa for several days/nights each week. On weekends she would return to her residence in Menlo Park. This member repeatedly stated that she desired to remain a member of the Menlo Park congregation and the congregation in Santa Rosa was advised of such when they requested her record card.
In time this congregation expressed concerns to the Branch Office in this regard and plaintiffs then received a letter from the Branch Office dated 1/18/2010 directing them to send the record card as requested to the congregation in Santa Rosa.
Plaintiffs sent a letter of response to the Branch, dated 2/3/2010 explaining the overall circumstances in an effort to confirm the proper course of action based on the congregation member’s expressed wishes to remain a member of the Menlo Park congregation.
As alleged by defendants Koehler and Misterfeld, during the hearing on this matter, plaintiffs’ letter was viewed as an act of insubordination and thus plaintiffs were so charged.
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A review of organizational policy and directives clearly establishes that there is no basis for disciplinary action in this particular case as congregation members are free to choose for themselves which congregation they will formally join and attend based on their individual circumstances.
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Plaintiffs recognize that the recommendation for removal and the subsequent decision rendered by Branch Office representative defendant Doe (SDG:SSX) is a charge and action of convenience, an act of extra-judicial punishment with clear intent to further the defendants’ overall scheme to displace Menlo Park Corporation management, apparently by any means necessary..."- [United States District Court For the Northern District of California: CV10-3907) PDF of this is available (http://ex-jw.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Lawsuit-CV10-3907.pdf)
Basically, these elders were not cooperating with the CO. It is facinating that such a petty thing as a record card became the reason for removing the elders - but not surprising. Rutherford took over the Org., ignoring Russell's will using legal manipulation too. And Ray Franz was disfellowshipped just for eating a meal with his landlord when they introduced a new rule and applied it retrospectively.
It's not often this gets out into the public domain, but one thing emerges from all this that is as clear as day - whoever is right and wrong in this case, there is NO sign of the Holy Spirit in action whatsoever, especially from the side of the Org.
This is very much just a man made organization pretending to be led by God.
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2011-2012 DC Brochure(s) "Listen to God" PDF
by yknot inanonymous brother does it again!
(huge round of applause!!!
(regular) http://www.sendspace.com/file/nzjme3.
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shepherd
Wow this brochure is designed for morons?
I bet if they use it at the meetings they will still manage to take 2 months to 'study' it.
Russell, Rutherford and the other writers of the older study books would be turning in their graves if they saw the total mindless BS that gets released these days!
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shepherd
@Iamallcool how do you feel? You started a new topic yet never bothered to state your own case. If you raise a question and start a new topic, you could at least say something yourself!
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Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.
by designs in -
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shepherd
@Glander "shepherd - The US is pretty unique in the world of multicultural societies. Everything you pointed out above about the state of Israel is nothing compared to Islamic theocracies. Why are they given a pass?"
The US is far from unique in having a democractic system that ignores culture race gender when giving a right to vote, in fact it is the norm in the West.
All you then did was point the finger at someone else and say their theocracy is worse. The fact is I totally agree with you, these Islamic countries without democracy should also fall. Unfortunately most of them have the support of the USA - Saudi, Bahrain etc and do not make the news because they are pro US, and Syria does because it is not a friend of the US, but in all of them the same corruption and oppression exists.
However, that was not the subject of this topic, it was about Israel, and that is why I pointed out that Israel is a Jewish State, not a real democracy, and this is by their own definition. In that form, I see no reason to support a State that defines itself proudly by the race of just some of its citizens.
Nor do I think that just because the other states around are not good examples does that give Israel the right to ignore International law, with the direct approval of the USA. It is the sheer hypocrisy of it all - pointing the finger at those other States, however true it is, does not excuse Israel. There should be one law for all of them - and there is, it's called International law, but the USA vetoes it whenever Israel flouts it and shouts from the rooftops when countries like Syria and Iran and even China does.
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Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.
by designs in -
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shepherd
@drewcoul - at the moment none of those countries are democratic either. That does not make Israel right.
And if you had read my words carefully you would note I was referring to fellow Israeli citizens who are also Arab. In a real democracy they would have an equal vote - but they don't. Israel calls itself a Jewish State, overriding the equal rights of all its Arab Israeli citizens. Jews should have no more rights than any other Israelis, just like in the USA - Latino and Black and White Americans can all vote for any candidate they want - there is no rule only a White man or a Christian or even only a man for that matter can be President, but in Israel there are such rules that favor Jews. I could never support a State where one cultural group has more rights than another, or one religion over another - I prefer democracy.
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Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.
by designs in -
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shepherd
I am not American so I have not been subjected to the endless propaganda supporting Israel.
I prefer a democratic state where Israel is now. Israel is a Jewish State, which by its own definition makes it a racist state. There are elections in Israel, but it is not democratic - Arab Israelis do not have an equal voice and the Jewish majority is protected in its constitution. Israel is not democratic, and therefore has no right to exist in its current form in my opinion.
Quoting some old biblical right has no meaning to me - this is the 21st Century and democracy not theocracy is the government of choice.
The question was about ceding land, but it's not their land to cede or hold on to. The settlements they have there are illegal. Only Israel says they are not. Even though the USA will always veto in the Security Council (Often they are totally alone when they do so - the UK votes against the USA on it) Israel is still breaking International law.
I think it was brave of Obama to move in line with the Quartet, the EU Russia and other interested parties, brave but meaningless. Israel knows in the end it can do what it wants, they can even even tell Obama to F$%^ Off to his face and the USA will still back it in the end because their lobby is so powerful there.
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showdown at midnight with jw dad
by JunkYardDog inbastard call me up at midnight to tell how great the wt is.wtf i was sleeping.
i gave him a half hour lesson about the cross and how long it took jesus to die.
and how the torture stake would only keep you alive for about less than 30 minutes if that.
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shepherd
"If my Dad want's to play whack-a-mole by popping is head up with a new topic without answering the old one he'll get smacked down too."
The problem is that is not going to help him see for himself what you and I can already see. It takes patience...lots of it.
"The problem for the the likes of JYD and myself is that there is no nice way of getting them out."
I don't agree at all - in fact I think the opposite - there is no nasty way that is going to get them out!! OK They lied to you, but most of all they are lying to themselves, and until they see that for themselves they will not have opened eyes. However, it is not impossible and it is never too late.
There are lots in this very forum that would admit that when they were deep inside the Org it was almost impossible to see past it - but somehow they did in the end, so don't give up and try not to alienate the very people you want/need to help.
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showdown at midnight with jw dad
by JunkYardDog inbastard call me up at midnight to tell how great the wt is.wtf i was sleeping.
i gave him a half hour lesson about the cross and how long it took jesus to die.
and how the torture stake would only keep you alive for about less than 30 minutes if that.
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shepherd
I don't want to burst your bubble or change the theme of the thread, but FYI there has not been found any Christian crosses amongst the ruins of Pompei circa 79. A cross shape was found on one wall, which could also have simply been the imprint of wall brackets ( the Cross of Herculaneum). With very few exceptions, this is not seen by scholars as evidence the cross was in use as a Christian symbol at that time.
As for the argument with your father - I agree with sizemik: Instead of putting your Dad down . . . try to get him out . . .
It's not his fault he has a closed mind. JWs are trained to think that way. I was a blind asshole too once. But there is always hope, if you can learn to handle it better.