You can order a copy from Amazon.com for $19.60
kimberly
JoinedPosts by kimberly
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11
Awakening of a Jehovah's Witness NEW BOOK
by Stacey ini had dinner tonight with a woman that i knew in my old congregation growing up.
she was an elder's wife, and i was friends with her daughter.
she has written a new book that is being published by prometheus books and is being released in january 2002. she will be doing upcoming radio interviews to publicize the book, and i'll post more information when i have it.
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11
At A Time Such As This
by metatron ina time of sadness and horror.
all the churches and synagogues in my area will stay open,.
offering prayers for all the victims.. will even a single kingdom hall join them?
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kimberly
Well, for an update for what was said at my meeting last night...
The 'brother' who gave the announcements was reassuring everyone that Brooklyn Heights was ok, and was totally flippant about it all - (considering the scale of human tragedy) he described the tragic event as "the 'to do' [translation: small matter] that happened in America today". And the closing prayer ONLY mentioned the 'brothers and sisters' in NY - no one else was considered worthy of mentioning in the prayer. It was really sickening.
For what it's worth, everyone was encouraged to go out in FS on Saturday morning in view of events as, of course, everyone on the doors will want to talk about this - at this time no one even knew the full scale of the tragedy or who or what was behind it.
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23
Is the Organization really free from racism?
by dedalus inone of the claims witnesses like to make is that they are color-blind, that their religion transcends matters of race and culture.
by and large, i think most "apostates" accept this, though it's all too obvious that witnesses are bigots when it comes to all non-members.. but how true is the claim that witnesses escape racial stereotyping?.
i attended an inner-city congregation with mostly black brothers and sisters.
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kimberly
Hi Dedalus,
I can only speak from the viewpoint of some one brought up in the UK when it comes to racism in the WTS.
I personally think that racism is rife in the WTS, but perhaps not in the most blatant forms that it takes in the ‘world’. I do know of a sister who came here in the 1950’s and the Witnesses in her cong. wouldn’t sit with her or work with her in the service, so obviously things have got better than that – on the surface.
But saying that, about 5-6 years ago, one of the elders in my cong. was so angry that his son had got engaged to a black sister – he decided he didn’t want to serve as an elder anymore. Funnily enough, before he stood down, there hadn’t been one black MS or elder appointed in the cong. When he stepped down, a few were made up – I wonder who was holding them back? That experience made stop taking the idea of ‘racial harmony’ for granted.
My brother (who never got baptised and left quite a few years ago) was never given any ‘privileges’ – even doing the mikes – and yet he was a lot more intelligent than some of the elders’ sons who were given every ‘privilege’ going. In fact, around the time my brother left, ALL of the other black brothers of his age in our cong. gave up with the ‘truth’, but most of the (white) elder’s sons have stayed in.
Being a Witness means you have to conform to a particular way of life (i.e. white, middle class) and anyone wanting to be in good standing in the congregation is expected to shift away from their own culture (the way they talk, dress, the music they listen to) and fit in with the WTS. I personally think there’s an underlying impression that anything ‘black’ is to be looked down on. Images in the WT & Awake usually associate any ‘ethnic’ entertainment or dress in a negative way. In fact for a long time, there was no other sort of representation of black people in the publications.
To my mind, the black brothers have taken this negativity to heart more than the sisters have. This manifests itself in their choice of partners. The majority of black brothers – especially the ones who have moved up the ‘chain’ usually look down on black sisters and choose white sisters to get married to. It’s their choice and I have nothing against it – it’s a good thing, but the fact is, black sisters are definitely the bottom of the pile in the ‘truth’. It’s obviously an issue for me, as a black ‘sister’.
Black brothers are now able to take on more responsibility in the cong. so even if to the outside world, they’re an office junior, or cleaner or window cleaner – in the ‘truth’ they’re looked up to. A black Witness sister doesn’t have that.
When I first came to this board I took issue with a poster – JT – for his comments about “those big black sisters – don’t look good, but do a lot of service”, because that is EXACTLY the sort of negative attitude that black sisters have to put up with – particularly from black brothers and I definitely resent it. In London, single black sisters make up the majority of the pioneers – but a lot of them are depressed.
It took so long for the WTS to even have a black member of the Governing Body – and de-segregate congs. in the South and South Africa. One of my friends had a bad experience when she visited a cong. in Australia.
Everything is done to prove a point to ‘worldly’ people, but I think some are just paying lip service to the idea of racial harmony.
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17
Witness to teenagers or not?
by kimberly inhttp://www.msmagazine.com .
this is what is being said about the witnesses on a feminist web site forum.
i personally think the first poster was possibly a bit harsh, but then at the same time, maybe the witness she mentions should have asked for the home owner before going into her presentation.. .
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kimberly
Wow, Dedalus and Redhorsewoman.
You're doing so well on the discussion board (I hope that doesn't sound patronising, but I was too coward to "come out" as a Witness even though I have been posting there for about 9 months) - you're both a lot more coherent than I ever would have been able to be. It's probably one of the best places to get the truth about the 'Truth' out there into the public domain.
And they've really taken to you (that doesn't always happen to newcomers, believe me!)
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Witness to teenagers or not?
by kimberly inhttp://www.msmagazine.com .
this is what is being said about the witnesses on a feminist web site forum.
i personally think the first poster was possibly a bit harsh, but then at the same time, maybe the witness she mentions should have asked for the home owner before going into her presentation.. .
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kimberly
Sorry, what's the DNC list?????
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17
Witness to teenagers or not?
by kimberly inhttp://www.msmagazine.com .
this is what is being said about the witnesses on a feminist web site forum.
i personally think the first poster was possibly a bit harsh, but then at the same time, maybe the witness she mentions should have asked for the home owner before going into her presentation.. .
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kimberly
http://www.msmagazine.com
/cgi-local/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=001097This is what is being said about the Witnesses on a feminist web site forum. I personally think the first poster was possibly a bit harsh, but then at the same time, maybe the Witness she mentions should have asked for the home owner before going into her presentation.
I found it really weird reading these posts - sounds really stupid I know, but sometimes you don't always see the householder as a person with their own life - they just become an extension of the building. Because your (I'm) so wrapped up in getting the presentation out, you don't see them as an individual. -
25
Kingdom Melodies Cassette No. 999999999........
by kimberly insad person that i am, i posted this yesterday, but the post seems to have self destructed....... anyway, if anyone posted to the other thread wants to re-post to this one it would be much appreciated.
alright, this is one of those what was your favourite questions:.
when you were a witness (or even if youre still reluctantly attached like me), did you have a favourite kingdom melody (why couldnt they just be called hymns by the way)?.
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kimberly
Sad person that I am, I posted this yesterday, but the post seems to have self destructed......
Anyway, if anyone posted to the other thread wants to re-post to this one it would be much appreciated.
Alright, this is one of those ‘What was your favourite’ questions:
When you were a Witness (or even if you’re still reluctantly attached like me), did you have a favourite Kingdom Melody (why couldn’t they just be called hymns by the way)?
I remember thinking they were ok as a young child, but that was until I got to secondary school and heard the other kids singing ‘proper’ hymns in assembly, while I had to stand outside that I realised how inadequate they are. The one thing I notice about the updated songbook is that they are all written in a much higher key than most people can manage – when they’re sung at my hall, most people just mumble their way though them. Most sound like dirges rather than songs of praise. No one really seems to look forward to singing.
I visited the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris last year, and in it was strange how in just the few minutes I spent in there, I was really moved by the music being played in there. Certainly a lot more moved than I’ve ever been moved in the (what seems like hundreds of) years I’ve been attending the Kingdom Hall.
I’ve been to two funerals for relatives that have passed away in recent years. At the first one (the non-Witness one) at the graveside, everyone knew the words to the hymns and sang harmonies to them – really moving. At my Witness relative’s funeral, everyone stood at the grave side wondering what to do until a sister started singing the first few lines of ‘Life Without End – at Last’. But for some reason, that song just sounded wrong to sung in that situation (in fact it was at that point where his wife broke down). Because no one knew the Witness ‘protocol’ for that sort of situation, you had a few half-heartedly join in the singing, but the rest just stood around looking awkward, unsure if we were ‘allowed’ to do that sort of thing at a graveside.
I remember years ago, certain brothers and sisters would get together to sing the songs a make up different melodies/harmonies to them and so forth, but all that was stopped. The thinking was that, unless you play it like it sounds on the cassette, you’re disrespecting Jehovah.
Anyway, the songs I absolutely hate are the ‘marriage’ songs (‘Marriage is God’s Arrangement’ – pass the sick bag – and the ‘children/youth’ songs (“they are gifts from God, He says use the rod”)
Anyway, does anyone have any favourites that they miss singing? Perhaps you might even admire the way they've managed to get the words 'efficacious' and 'ignominiously' to rhyme.
I personally think that the society has stifled so much talent by not encouraging 'real' singing. How many popular singers started out singing in their (gospel) church (ignoring Michael Jackson obviously).
I suppose my ‘favourite’ Kingdom Melody would be
‘Jehovah is my Shepherd’ (although I still prefer the ‘Christendom’ version of this song 'The Lord is my Shepherd').
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15
Kingdom Melodies Cassette #990
by kimberly inalright, this is one of those what was your favourite questions:.
when you were a witness (or even if youre still reluctantly attached like me), did you have a favourite kingdom melody (why couldnt they just be called hymns by the way)?.
i remember thinking they were ok as a young child, but that was until i got to secondary school and heard the other kids singing proper hymns in assembly, while i had to stand outside.
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kimberly
Alright, this is one of those ‘What was your favourite’ questions:
When you were a Witness (or even if you’re still reluctantly attached like me), did you have a favourite Kingdom Melody (why couldn’t they just be called hymns by the way)?
I remember thinking they were ok as a young child, but that was until I got to secondary school and heard the other kids singing ‘proper’ hymns in assembly, while I had to stand outside. The one thing I notice about the updated songbook is that they are all written in a much higher key than most people can manage – when they’re sung at my hall, most people just mumble their way though them.
I visited the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris last year, and in it was strange how in just the few minutes I spent in there, I was really moved by the music being played in there. Certainly a lot more moved than I’ve ever been moved in the (what seems like hundreds of) years I’ve been attending the Kingdom Hall.
I’ve been to two funerals for relatives that have passed away in recent years. At the first one (the non Witness one) at the graveside, everyone knew the words to the hymns and sang harmonies to them – really moving. At my Witness relative’s funeral, everyone stood at the grave side wondering what to do until a sister started singing the first few lines of ‘Life Without End – at Last’. But for some reason, that song just sounded wrong to sung in that situation (in fact it was at that point where his wife broke down). Because no one knew the Witness ‘protocol’ for that sort of situation, you had a few half-heartedly join in the singing, but the rest just stood around looking awkward, unsure if we were ‘allowed’ to do that sort of thing at a graveside.
I remember years ago, certain brothers and sisters would get together to sing the songs a make up different melodies to them and so forth, but all that was stopped. The thinking was that, unless you play it like it sounds on the cassette, you’re disrespecting Jehovah.
Anyway, the songs I absolutely hate are the ‘marriage’ songs (‘Marriage is God’s Arrangement’ – pass the sick bag :-(*)– and the ‘children/youth’ songs (“they are gifts from God, He says use the rod” [8>] )
Anyway, does anyone have any favourites that they miss singing?
I suppose my ‘favourite’ would be
‘Jehovah is my Shepherd’ (although I still prefer the ‘Christendom’ version of this song) .
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78
Panties or Thongs, WHICH????????????
by JT ini thought the name of this thread was so on time for this thread demostrates one of the sad things about claiming to speak for god, when one actually does not.. when i was a newly appointed elder at the tender age of 27 .
i was introduced to the world of the judical committee.. it was in fact my first case.
i had gotten a call from the po before the meeting stating that their would be an elders meetings to discuss some judical matters.
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kimberly
James
I am not looking to pick an argument with anyone, and I didn’t miss the point of your post – 1, those sort of probing questions are irrelevant – 2, it goes against an individual’s fundamental human rights to have to attend this sort of inquisition without being prepared and without representation from an outside party (lawyer etc.) 3, elders are not in anyway qualified to conduct these sort of hearings.
It doesn’t change the fact that I am sick of it when people just dismiss "those" black sisters [8>](or the amount of work they do for the WTS) in this way – and whether you’re black or white yourself it doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference to me – a lot of the discrimination I’ve encountered in the “truth” has been from black brothers – the ones who treat the black sisters like dirt but can’t do enough for the white sisters. I think there was a lot of disrespect shown in that comment.
If I sound bitter, it’s because I’ve had to put up with this sort of cr**p for over 25 years.
Bad Associate – you sound like fun!
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Panties or Thongs, WHICH????????????
by JT ini thought the name of this thread was so on time for this thread demostrates one of the sad things about claiming to speak for god, when one actually does not.. when i was a newly appointed elder at the tender age of 27 .
i was introduced to the world of the judical committee.. it was in fact my first case.
i had gotten a call from the po before the meeting stating that their would be an elders meetings to discuss some judical matters.
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kimberly
Well JT,
I was agreeing with your post until I came to this point :
"he married and his wife was one of those big black sisters who was good in field service , but not much to really look at
while this sister kinda put in mind of a Venessa Williams type to put in plainly she was a nice looking sister i won't lie".
Those big black sisters?!!! Who the hell are you! What the hell did it matter what his wife looked like? You're attitude is just as sickening as the elders you're complaining about.
Sometimes, especially if you've been 'brought up in the "truth"', you can take for granted that you won't come across such bigoted insults like this. Your comment and the lack of response from the other posters to such a stereotypical, generalisation and in my opinion racist statement tells me more about you than anything you went on to say about the mis-treatment of the 'nice looking sister'.
I might not want to be involved in this organisation, but I do so out of loyalty to my family - not to some imaginary 'channel of God' who've done pretty well out of the unpaid donkey work of many of these so-called 'big black sisters' - for little recognition.
Maybe you should remember, not all of the posters here are white, thin or live up to your standard of what you consider beauty, but that's no reason to insult them or the work they do out of misguided sincerity. Attitudes like yours make me sick - and to think you were an elder or that there might be others with an attitude like yours passing judgements on individuals just makes me even sicker.