http://www.bible.ca/jw-hitler.htm has photo copies of the letter. THey it were written in german so unless you know german you will have to stick with the translation provded but you can find it in many places, the letters arnt new news.....or light for that matter.
levicolemagic
JoinedPosts by levicolemagic
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Defending the Hitler letters - Jehovahs Witnesess Courageous in the Face Of Nazi Peril
by levicolemagic inthis guy is defending the hitler letters.
yea the letters that the watchtower sent to hitler saying they don't like jews eather so don't hurt us.
f-ing crazy.
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Defending the Hitler letters - Jehovahs Witnesess Courageous in the Face Of Nazi Peril
by levicolemagic inthis guy is defending the hitler letters.
yea the letters that the watchtower sent to hitler saying they don't like jews eather so don't hurt us.
f-ing crazy.
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levicolemagic
P.S. I made a comment about how the Hitler letters were horrible and he took it off. How one sided is that. Won't even let another opinion be said.
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Defending the Hitler letters - Jehovahs Witnesess Courageous in the Face Of Nazi Peril
by levicolemagic inthis guy is defending the hitler letters.
yea the letters that the watchtower sent to hitler saying they don't like jews eather so don't hurt us.
f-ing crazy.
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levicolemagic
This guy is defending the Hitler letters. Yea the letters that the Watchtower sent to Hitler saying they don't like jews eather so don't hurt us. F-ing crazy. Here is the article in it's entirety and the link if you wanted to leave him a comment on what you think.
Would you welcome more information on this Hub or a free home Bible study?
While I do not answer questions by electronic mail (E-mail) over the Internet, we are happy to help individuals study the Bible in their own home. Please feel free to contact Jehovah's Witnesses in your locality.
You are welcome to make comments in this Hub but you will not find me debating your comments at any time in the Hubs.
Jehovah's Witnesses Courageous in the Face of Nazi Peril Actual photos of the convention attended by Jehovah's Witnesses in 1933 at the Tennishallen JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are well-known for their firm adherence to God's Word, the Bible. This often calls for courage, and it certainly affects their lives and their relationships with others.
For example, the Witnesses have deep regard for people of all ethnic and cultural backgrounds. They love God and their neighbor. ( Matthew 22:35-40 ) Indeed, they are in full agreement with the apostle Peter, who declared: "For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him."— Acts 10:34, 35 .
Jehovah's Witnesses are also known worldwide for their respect for law, order, and governmental authority. They have never been a seedbed of insurrection and never will be. This is true even when they are persecuted in some lands because of their taking the apostolic position: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." ( Acts 5:29 ; Matthew 24:9 ) At the same time, the Witnesses recognize the right of others to worship in harmony with the dictates of their conscience.
The courageous Christian stand of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany and other lands dominated by Adolf Hitler is a matter of record. A notable event in Berlin, Germany, in 1933 illustrates their courage, their love for God and neighbor, and their respect for law, order, and religious freedom.
No Compromise With Hitler
It was more than 50 years ago that Hitler's monstrous 12-year reign of racism and murder came to an end. Yet, that Nazi regime inflicted wounds that grieve humanity to this day.
History recognizes that only a few groups courageously stood up and spoke out against Nazi terror. Among them were Jehovah's Witnesses, described as "a tiny island of unflagging [moral] resistance existing in the bosom of a terrorized nation." Their courageous stand is well documented by respected historians.
A few critics, however, including some former associates of Jehovah's Witnesses, charge that the Witnesses attempted to compromise with the Hitler regime in its early days. They claim that representatives of the Watch Tower Society tried unsuccessfully to curry favor with the new government and that, at least for a time, they endorsed the racist ideology of the Nazis, which eventually led to the murder of six million Jews.
These serious allegations are absolutely false. The following is a frank examination of the events in question, based on available documentation and historical context.
Looking Back
Jehovah's Witnesses have been active in Germany for more than 100 years. By 1933, there were about 25,000 Witnesses worshiping Jehovah God and distributing Bible literature throughout Germany.
Despite the freedoms granted by the German constitution of that time, Jehovah's Witnesses were frequently the target of defamation campaigns, launched primarily by religious opponents. As early as 1921, the Witnesses, then called ErnsteBibelforscher (Earnest Bible Students), were accused of being linked with the Jews in subversive political movements. The Bible Students were branded as the dangerous Bolshevik "Jewish worm," though no proof of the charges was ever produced. Swiss theologian Karl Barth later wrote: "The accusation that Jehovah's Witnesses are linked with the Communists can only be due to an involuntary or even intentional misunderstanding."
A church magazine in Germany charged that the Witnesses and the Jews were coconspirators in revolutionary movements. In response, the April 15, 1930, German edition of The Golden Age (forerunner of Awake!) stated: "We have no reason to regard this false accusation as an insult—as we are convinced that the Jew is at least as valuable a person as a nominal Christian; but we reject the above untruth of the church tabloid because it is aimed at deprecating our work, as if it were being done not for the sake of the Gospel but for the Jews."
Thus, professor of history John Weiss wrote: "The Witnesses were free of German racial nationalism and had not brooded for centuries over the failure of the Jews to convert. The Witnesses still held to the original, if patronizing, Christian belief of the need to persuade all potential converts to Christ."
What Happened When Hitler Came to Power?
On January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler was appointed Germany's new chancellor. In the beginning, the Hitler government worked to conceal its violent and extremist nature. Hence, the Witnesses, along with millions of other Germans in early 1933, viewed the National Socialist Party as the legitimate ruling authority of the time. The Witnesses hoped that the National Socialist (Nazi) government would realize that this peaceable, law-abiding Christian group posed no subversive threat to the State. This was no offer to compromise Bible principles. As has been the case in other lands, the Witnesses wanted to inform the government of the true nonpolitical nature of their religion.
It quickly became apparent that Jehovah's Witnesses were to be among the first targets of brutal Nazi suppression. The Witnesses were again branded as accomplices in an alleged Bolshevik-Jewish conspiracy. A campaign of persecution began.
Why would such a small religious community attract the fury of the new regime? Historian Brian Dunn identifies three fundamental reasons: (1) the international scope of the Witnesses, (2) their opposition to racism, and (3) their position of neutrality toward the State. Because of their Scriptural views, the German Witnesses refused to give the Hitler salute, to support the National Socialist Party, or later on to participate in military activities. Exodus 20:4, 5 ; Isaiah 2:4 ; John 17:16 .
As a result, the Witnesses endured threats, interrogations, house searches, and other harassment by the police and SA (Hitler's Sturmabteilung, storm troopers, or Brownshirts). On April 24, 1933, officials seized and shut down the Watch Tower office in Magdeburg, Germany. After a thorough search yielded no incriminating evidence, and under pressure from the U.S. State Department, the police returned the property. By May 1933, though, the Witnesses were banned in several German states.
Witnesses Take Courageous Action
During this early period, Hitler carefully cultivated his public image as a champion of Christianity. He proclaimed his commitment to religious freedom, promising to treat Christian denominations "with objective justice." In order to enhance his image, the new chancellor made appearances in churches. This was a time when many people in countries that later would be at war with Germany were expressing admiration for Hitler's achievements.
Concerned about the rising tensions in Germany, Joseph F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, together with the Germany branch office manager, Paul Balzereit, decided to mount a campaign to inform Chancellor Hitler, government officials, and the public that Jehovah's Witnesses posed no threat to the German people and the State. Rutherford evidently believed that Hitler was unaware of the attacks against Jehovah's Witnesses or that he had been misinformed by religious elements regarding the Witnesses.
Therefore, the Magdeburg office arranged a convention to make use of the German citizens' right of petition. On short notice, Jehovah's Witnesses from all over Germany were invited to the Wilmersdorfer Tennishallen in Berlin on June 25, 1933. About 5,000 delegates were expected. Despite the hostile atmosphere, more than 7,000 courageously attended. The delegates adopted a resolution entitled "Declaration of Facts." This document protested the restrictions that had been put on the work of the Witnesses. It made a clear statement of their position and denied charges of seditious links with political causes of any sort. It stated:
"We are wrongfully charged before the ruling powers of this government . . . We do respectfully ask the rulers of the nation and the people to give a fair and impartial consideration to the statement of facts here made."
"We have no fight with any persons or religious teachers, but we must call attention to the fact that it is generally those who claim to represent God and Christ Jesus who are in fact our persecutors and who misrepresent us before the governments."
Convention of Courage or Compromise?
Some now hold that the 1933 Berlin convention and the "Declaration of Facts" were attempts on the part of prominent Witnesses to show support for the Nazi government and its hatred of the Jews. But their assertions are not true. They are based on misinformation and on misinterpretation of the facts.
For instance, critics claim that the Witnesses decorated the Wilmersdorfer Tennishallen with swastika flags. Photographs of the 1933 convention clearly show that they displayed no swastikas in the hall. Eyewitnesses confirm that there were no flags inside.
It is possible, however, that there were flags on the building's exterior. A Nazi combat troop had used the hall on June 21, the Wednesday prior to the convention. Then just the day before the convention, crowds of young people along with units of the SS (Schutzstaffel, originally Hitler's Blackshirt bodyguards), SA, and others celebrated the summer solstice nearby. So Witnesses arriving at the Sunday convention might have been greeted with the sight of a building decked with swastika flags.
Had there been swastika flags decorating the hall's exterior, corridors, or even its interior, the Witnesses would have left them alone. Even today, when Jehovah's Witnesses rent public facilities for meetings and conventions, they do not remove national symbols. But there is no evidence that the Witnesses themselves hung any flags or that they saluted them.
Critics further state that the Witnesses opened the convention with the German national anthem. Actually, the convention began with "Zion's Glorious Hope," Song 64 in the Witnesses' religious songbook. The words of this song were set to music composed by Joseph Haydn in 1797. Song 64 had been in the Bible Students' songbook since at least 1905. In 1922 the German government adopted Haydn's melody with words by Hoffmann von Fallersleben as their national anthem. Nevertheless, the Bible Students in Germany still sang their Song 64 occasionally, as did Bible Students in other countries.
The singing of a song about Zion could hardly be construed as an effort to placate the Nazis. Under pressure from anti-Semitic Nazis, other churches removed Hebrew terms such as "Judah," "Jehovah," and "Zion" from their hymnals and liturgies. Jehovah's Witnesses did not. The convention organizers, then, certainly did not expect to win favor with the government by singing a song extolling Zion. Possibly, some delegates may have been reluctant to sing "Zion's Glorious Hope," since the melody of this composition by Haydn was the same as that of the national anthem.
A Statement of Intent
With the government in transition and the country in turmoil, the Witnesses wanted to make a clear statement of their position. By means of the "Declaration," the Witnesses strongly denied accusations of financial involvement or political ties with Jews. Thus, the document stated:
"It is falsely charged by our enemies that we have received financial support for our work from the Jews. Nothing is farther from the truth. Up to this hour there never has been the slightest bit of money contributed to our work by Jews."
Having mentioned money, the "Declaration" went on to denounce unfair practices of big business. It said: "It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations."
This statement clearly did not refer to the Jewish people in general, and it is regrettable if it has been misunderstood and has given cause for any offense. Some have claimed that Jehovah's Witnesses shared the hostility toward the Jews that was commonly taught in the German churches at the time. This is absolutely untrue. By their literature and conduct during the Nazi era, the Witnesses rejected anti-Semitic views and condemned the Nazi mistreatment of the Jews. Certainly, their kindness toward Jews who shared their lot in the concentration camps provides a resounding rebuttal to this false accusation.
The "Declaration" defined the Witnesses' work as religious in character, stating:"Our organization is not political in any sense. We only insist on teaching the Word of Jehovah God to the people."
The "Declaration" also reminded the government of its own promises. The Witnesses upheld certain high ideals, and these happened to be publicly espoused also by the German government. Among these were family values and religious freedom.
In this regard, the "Declaration" added: "A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness."
Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for the Nazi Party. Moreover, in the exercise of religious freedom, they did not intend to stop their public preaching.— Matthew 24:14 ; 28:19, 20 .
According to the account in the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, some German Witnesses were disappointed that the language of the "Declaration" was not more explicit in tone. Had the branch office manager, Paul Balzereit, weakened the text of the document? No, for a comparison of the German and the English texts shows that this is not the case. Evidently, an impression to the contrary was based on the subjective observations of some who were not directly involved in the preparation of the "Declaration." Their conclusions may also have been influenced by the fact that Balzereit renounced his faith only two years later.
It is now known that a ban on Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany had been issued on Saturday, June 24, 1933, just the day before the Berlin convention. The convention organizers and the police learned of this ban a few days later. In view of the climate of tension and the evident hostility of Nazi officials, it is remarkable that the convention was held at all. It is no exaggeration to say that 7,000 Witnesses courageously put their liberty at risk by attending the gathering.
Following the convention, the Witnesses distributed 2.1 million copies of the "Declaration." Some Witnesses were arrested immediately and sent to labor camps. Thus, the Nazi government fully revealed its oppressive, violent nature and soon launched an all-out attack on this small group of Christians.
Wrote Professor Christine King: "Brute force could not suppress the Witnesses, the Nazis were to learn." It was as the "Declaration" stated: "The power of Jehovah God is supreme and there is no power that can successfully resist him."
You may also find it enlightening to view the videocassette documentary entitled
Jehovah's Witnesses Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault.
Article can be found at http://hubpages.com/hub/JehovahsWitnesessCourageous
Those letters are like telling Charles Manson, "I understand what you are doing. I won't help or anything, but since I agree with you and we are on the same page; we can be friends right?"
If you have never read them Im sure there is a forum post here that discusses them or you can go to. http://www.bible.ca/jw-hitler.htm#hitlerlett
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The JW warrior
by levicolemagic inthis is the recent comments on an article i wrote about jws and thanksgiving.
i find it interesting when you get the warrior witness who starts throwing hellfire and making statements and does not back it up.
nor will they answer any questions you throw at them.
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levicolemagic
True, but i wish there was a way to un-dumbassify him.
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The JW warrior
by levicolemagic inthis is the recent comments on an article i wrote about jws and thanksgiving.
i find it interesting when you get the warrior witness who starts throwing hellfire and making statements and does not back it up.
nor will they answer any questions you throw at them.
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levicolemagic
This is the recent comments on an article I wrote about JWs and Thanksgiving. I find it interesting when you get the warrior witness who starts throwing hellfire and making statements and does not back it up. Nor will they answer any questions you throw at them. I feel bad for their willing ignorance. Here it is, tell me what you think about how the conversation was handled, if maby I can do better in handling a JW warrior next time or leave a comment yourself.
Comments
dee 6 weeks ago
Most JW don't celebrate Thanksgiving because it isn't in the Bible. And nothing is wrong with that. Each person has their own reason for not celebrating. The Watchtower encourages you not to particpate in things that are not bible based. But if you want to visit your family and friends during the holidays that's your choice. Most people don't because family and friends says your celebrating by being there. I don't understand why people give JWs such a hard time.
levicolemagic 6 weeks ago
I appoligise to dee for making it seem like I was attacking JWs as individuals, I was not. I was attacking the Watchtower however. I was also attacking the doctrine. I believe I made it quite clear at the end that if you do not want to get together on Thanksgiving, then it is not my place to tell you that you have to. But, the watchtower has no business telling people they are sinning by celebrating Thanksgiving.
It is your choice to celebrate or not, however according to the bible scripture above, if a fellow brother or sister does celebrate it, it isn't anyone place to tell them that day is not for god.
I will clarify again, I have no problems with JWs as people. Most of them are nice genuine people that raise their children with good moral principles. They are honest and hardworking. I think the Watchtower Society has sadly misguided them on much of the dogma they are taught. It is my hope that as many witnesses as possible take a look at the gospels in the bible and truly find Jesus. As for the Watchtower and it's governing body, judgement day is coming.
Thank you for your comment dee and God Bless.
Errol Kane 2 days ago
Place your Hope In Gods Kingdom with Jesus as his King who is now ruling in heaven. Take a good look at world conditons and how it has become worst since 1914. Take a look closer as the Bible prophecied just 7 world powers and how you are now living during this last world power. take a look ah how Jesus said you would know his 'Presence' when the world would be as it is now in the book of Matthew.
No Part of the world because Jesus was no part of the world.
The world would hate us and that is ok. They hated Jesus. I know the world is not hating you because I have been there before. In false religion. Baptist, Apostolic and even Black Muslim. No one on the face of the earth is keeping following Jesus commandments but true Christians who have come out of false Religion soon to be destroyed by his Father Jehovah.
Worldwide, people are coming out of False Religion everywhere. We pray for God to santify his NAME, for his Kingdom government to come and for his will to be done on this earth as it is in heaven. Yes, my hope to live on this beautiful earth as God intended in Genesis and will make his Purpose, not plan because only man plans and their is a difference, will come true. To live as perfect human beings forever.
And no, the world will not be destroyed, everyone is not going to heaven. If that was true, what need would there be for a resurrection. And if fire is going to destroy heaven and earth, then perhaps you have figured out how fire will destroy the heavens when fire is physical and heaven is in the spirit realm? Hmmmm....
People will not die and be tormented forever by fire and why? Because the Bible says 'The wages of sin is death'
They paid their wages. So to be burning in a so called hell forever really makes no sense.
And the earth Psalms 37: 9, 10, 11, 29,
For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.
Yes, False religion will be destroyed, Babylon the Great, Political System and commercialism, then Satan will attack Jehovah's servants to no prevail Zechariah 2: 8 ,For this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Following after [the] glory he has sent me to the nations that were despoiling YOU people; for he that is touching YOU is touching my eyeball.
Jehovah is certainly speeding up the time as this terribly system crumbles.
I hope you find the truth before he stops the preaching work of his Kingdom. Man's only salvation through Christ Jesus. This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come. No one is doing that But the Witnesses. No matter how you hate them, despise them, no matter how 'YOU' think they are wrong. Look at who is doing what in all the earth and who is not.
The world is fond of what is it's own. Don't stay fond forever.
lionswhelp 2 days ago
Hello Errol,
The Pilgrims kept Thanksgiving in the early Days of this country before it became a nation. I doubt if it was a day of gluttony and drunkeness to them. They were a very religious people and part of the Seperatus Church that came from England (Seventh Day - Sabbath or Seventh Day Baptist). It doesn't say if this was one of the Fall Holidays like The Feast of Trumpets or the Feast of Tabernacles.
These people were doing it in the fall after the harvest of their crops. However, there have been pagans that also kept a day of thanklsgiving to their god at the Harvest time. I think It is matter of choice as to whether we should keep it or not. It became a national day of Thanksgiving here in the USA when Abraham Lincoln declared it as a holiday to give thanks to God. I do not see anything wrong with this.
The Jehovah's Witnesses were founded by Charles Russell many years later so they have their own point of view as to what they think they should keep. We should always look to the Bible to see which Days God says we should keep.
God's Word the Bible has specific Holy Days that God says we are to keep at certain times of the year which picture God's true plan of salvation for us all, see Leviticus 23. These Days are called Feast Days to God Starting with the Seventh Day Sabbath which is to be kept weekly as a Feast Day. The other Days start with the Passover & Feast Days of Unleaven Bread( the First day and Seventh Day are High Days of that Feast),and Pentecost. These are the three Spring High Holy Days. In the Fall there are four Holy Days starting with the Feast of Trumpets,Day of Atonement, the Feast of Tabernacles and the Last Great Day. They will be restored for everyone to keep when Jesus Christ returns and will be kept forever, Leviticus 23:2-3,4-21,31,41; Isaiah 66:22-23; Zechariah 14:16-21, Isaiah 19:17-25. I hope this helps you all. Jesus Christ and his original disciples kept them. So do his true followers today. Yes, we are to worship God o every day but also areto keep these specific days, Leviticus 23:1-2, because God says to!
Errol Kane 2 days ago
Hello Lionwhelp,
Words are so very important so, when will people realize that God does not plan. God as a name and that very unique name is Jehovah which means 'He causes to become' and his purposes is always realized. Man plans and sometimes his plans fall short which is the reason why the Bible tells us not to put your trust in nobles. And most people on this earth do.
All of Jehovah's purposes for mankind will be realize soon.
The United States has it's constitution and forefathers and most people here would die for it. True followers of Jesus Christ have their hope in the Heavenly Messianic Kingdom and place their trust and hope in Jehovah.
Jesus is now ruling as King in heaven and has made his return. He came back in the same manner in which e left, invisible, and now ruling in the Midst of his enemies which is False Religion which will soon be destroyed.
lionswhelp 2 days ago
Jesus will soon return and rule with his saints after the Great Tribulation on the earth, Hebrews 1:2-3;1 Corinthians 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Matthew 24:21-22, Jeremiah 30:7-9, Revelation 19:11-21; Revelation 20:1-4. He is now sitting at the Father's side waiting for permission to return and rule on the earth, Revelation 11:15-18, Revelation 5:6-10. For everyone that is left alive shall see him, Matthew 24:30. It is for certain that the kings and leaders on earth will be gathered at Armageddon to fight against Him at Jerusalem, Revelation 16:15-16. He will fight against all false religions and governments, Joel 3:1-2, Zechariah 14:1-9.
Errol Kane 43 hours ago
Lionwhelp,
my next Hubs will be on 'Presence' Jesus's, and 'Saints' Thank you. The Bible views. Also, I want you to notice that I never say what 'I believe' when it concerns the bible because I would then be rendering my own opinion which would be wrong and misleading and not truthful when in fact, the bible clearly has it's own rendering when it concerns Bible truths.
You ever notice how many people who claim they are christian say that?
Much like they say 'God plan is to....'
God doesn't plan, man does. God purposes and his Purposes always come true. That is Why God's unique name 'JEHOVAH' means 'He causes to become' and which is the reason why he told Moses at Exodus 3: 13 - 15,
Nevertheless, Moses said to the [true] God: “Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, ‘The God of YOUR forefathers has sent me to YOU,’ and they do say to me, ‘What is his name?’ What shall I say to them?” 14 At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’” 15 Then God said once more to Moses:
“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation
Now sir,
Some, on the basis of texts speaking of Jesus’ being seen “coming in clouds with great power and glory” (Mr 13:26; Re 1:7), conclude that his presence must be a visible one. When Jesus ascended into heaven, his work here on the earth as a visible human being was finished. Again, you can't cancel out one saying of Jesus such as, 'the world will behold me no more' and yet say, 'we will see Jesus coming on a cloud' because that is what you (generalizing) thought the bible must have ment. Is it reasonable to think that, that statement could have been taken in another way?
Let's examine that Lionwhelp because, either Jesus was lying when he said, 'the world will behold me no more', or that statement had another meaning.
Jehovah, whom no man can see and yet live, symbolizes his presence by a cloud. At Mount Sinai, at the time of giving the Law to Israel, a dark cloud covered the mountain; out of the cloud came lightnings and thunder, the blare of a trumpet, and a loud voice. (Ex 19:16-19; 24:15; Heb 12:18, 19)
Jehovah told Moses that he appeared in this manner in order that he might speak to Moses and that, on hearing it, the people might put faith in Moses as God’s representative.—Ex 19:9.
Jehovah sent an angel in a cloud as “his own personal messenger” to lead Israel out of Egypt and through the wilderness. (Isa 63:9) By means of the angel, Jehovah representatively looked out of the cloud to throw the camp of the Egyptians into confusion. (Ex 13:21, 22; 14:19, 24, 25) Jehovah also used the cloud to baptize them as a nation into Moses, the waters being at the sides of them and the cloud above and behind. Thus they were “baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea.”—1Co 10:2; see also Nu 14:14.
When the tabernacle was set up in the wilderness, the cloud resided over it and “Jehovah’s glory filled the tabernacle,” so that Moses was unable to enter. (Ex 40:34, 35; compare 1Ki 8:10-12; Re 15:8.) After this the cloud stood over the Most Holy, in which was the ark of the covenant, and the cloud became a pillar of fire at night. Doubtless this cloud was visible from any part of the camp, marking the camp’s center. When it rose, Israel prepared to break camp. When it moved, they followed its direction to the next camping place, although the exact site to set up the camp may have been selected with the help of Hobab, who had a good knowledge of the land, including watering places and other features necessary to a camp of such tremendous proportions.—Ex 40:34-38; Nu 10:29-32.
Inside the Most Holy, over the ark of the covenant, was a cloud that was very brilliant, the only light to illuminate that compartment. (Le 16:2) In post-Biblical Hebrew, it was called the Shechinah. When the high priest went into the Most Holy on Atonement Day with the blood of animals, he was symbolically standing in the presence of Jehovah. At other times, when he did not go into the Most Holy but stood before the curtain to present a matter of importance to Jehovah for his answer, he was considered as standing before Jehovah.—Nu 27:21.
In one instance Jehovah’s own voice was heard out of a bright cloud, expressing approval of his only-begotten Son. This was the brilliant cloud overshadowing Jesus and his three apostles Peter, James, and John on the mount of the transfiguration.—Mt 17:5.
Now, when Jesus ascended into heaven, according to the record, “a cloud caught him up from their vision.” (Ac 1:9) The disciples did not see Jesus riding away on a cloud, but rather, the cloud obscured their vision of him. This helps us to understand Jesus’ words concerning his presence: “They will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory,” and Revelation’s statement: “He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.” (Lu 21:27; Mt 24:30; Re 1:7) In past cases (as the Bible has just shown you) clouds represented invisible presence; but observers could “see” the meaning with their mental “eyes.” In this case the physical occurrences that are visible would cause the one looking to “see” or realize that Christ is invisibly present. Very important that you read this again, Mt 24; Mr 13; Re 14:14.
When Jesus came to earth, with all the identifications of the Messiah, the Jews selfishly refused to acknowledge him because they demanded as a proof of his Messiahship that he literally fulfill the vision at Daniel 7:13, 14, where the Son of man is shown coming with the clouds of the heavens before the Ancient of Days, Jehovah God, to receive his kingdom. They confused his presence in Kingdom power with his first coming. He told them that no such sign would be given them.—Lu 11:29.
Some, on the basis of texts speaking of Jesus’ being seen “coming in clouds with great power and glory” (Mr 13:26; Re 1:7), conclude that his presence must be a visible one. Yet, as shown, the use of clouds in connection with other divine manifestations suggests invisibility rather than visibility. So, too, ‘seeing’ can refer to figurative sight, perception with the mind and heart. (Isa 44:18; Jer 5:21; Eze 12:2, 3; Mt 13:13-16; Eph 1:17, 18) To deny this would be to deny that the opposite of sight, namely, blindness, could be used in a figurative or spiritual, rather than literal, sense. Yet Jesus clearly used both sight and blindness in such a figurative or spiritual sense. (Joh 9:39-41; Re 3:14-18; compare also 2Co 4:4; 2Pe 1:9.) Job, being spoken to by Jehovah “out of the windstorm” (likely accompanied by clouds), afterward said: “In heresay I have heard about you, but now my own eye does see you.” (Job 38:1; 42:5) This, too, must have been by perception of mind and heart rather than the literal eye, in view of the clear Scriptural teaching that “no man has seen God at any time.”—Joh 1:18; 5:37; 6:46; 1Jo 4:12.
Evidence weighing against Jesus’ presence as being a visible one (in the sense of Jesus’ appearing in a bodily form that could be seen by human eyes) is found in Jesus’ own statement that by his death he would sacrifice his flesh in behalf of the life of the world (Joh 6:51) and in the apostle Paul’s declaration that the resurrected Jesus “dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.” (1Ti 6:14-16) Jesus therefore could tell his disciples that “a little longer and the world will behold me no more.” True, his disciples would behold him, not only because he would appear to them after his resurrection but also because in due time they would be resurrected to join him in the heavens and ‘behold the glory that his Father had given him.’ (Joh 14:19; 17:24) But the world in general would not behold him because after his resurrection to life as a spirit creature (1Pe 3:18), Jesus restricted his appearanc
levicolemagic 10 hours ago
Errol Kane,
Lets start with the English language on this one.
purpose: something set up as an object or end to be attained
plan: a method for achieving an end
A plan is the method of achieving a purpose.
Both words are right when talking about GOD. The bible tells us god's "purpose" for us and it even lets us know what his "plans" are in achieving that purpose. Yes GOD always achieves his "purpose" and the reasons for this is, his "plans" for achieving them are perfect.
Second, who are you to tell me if I am following Christ? You are very assuming for someone who does not know me. I will ask that you remove the rafter from YOUR eye, my brother, before you extract the straw from mine.
You said,
"Also, I want you to notice that I never say what 'I believe' when it concerns the bible because I would then be rendering my own opinion which would be wrong and misleading and not truthful when in fact, the bible clearly has it's own rendering when it concerns Bible truths."
Yet, you say,
"And no, the world will not be destroyed, everyone is not going to heaven."
That means that you believe when the bible says that the earth will be destroyed it isn't speaking literally. Even if you don't say "I believe" you are stating your interpretation. (Or you are regurgitating someone else's opinion on the bible.) Try not to be so sanctimonious it's what got the Pharisees in trouble.
You also said,
"This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come. No one is doing that But the Witnesses."
A current success story is the Jesus Film Project. At www.jesusfilm.org
At http://www.gideons.org it discusses the preaching work of the Gideons;
Pentecostalism is the world's fastest-growing Christian movement with over 150 million adherents, growing at an estimated 19 million members per year.
The greatest preaching work of all have been by the Catholic Church, who boast over 1 billion members, and who virtually all other Christian groups owe their existence to. This work continues to our day and at http://www.catholicmission.org/ quotes Pope John Paul II as saying "I sense that the moment has come to commit all of the Church's energies to a new evangelization and to the mission ad gentes (to the nations.)" The site outlines the joy of joining in with spreading the message of Christ.
The reason that Christianity is the world's largest religion with billions of followers is centuries of preaching work by self sacrificing Christians globally. Many millions of missionaries devote their lives to the preaching work, and hundreds of millions informally discuss the good news. Great disservice is shown to these individuals whenever it is said that only Jehovah's Witnesses participate in the work Jesus described.
Since you are a Jehovahs Witness, you should consider these questions.
If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)
If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"?
Has the Society ever taught anything scripturally incorrect?
Might the Society be teaching anything scripturally incorrect now?
Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not?
Can Jehovah's Witnesses hold and discuss openly with other Jehovah's Witnesses opinions that differ from orthodox Watch Tower doctrine?
Can individuals read & understand the Bible alone, or do they need an organization and it's publications to do so?
How do you prove from the Bible that 1935 was the year for the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled?
What is the difference between a Catholic appealing to "what the organization tells him" about December 25 being the date of Jesus’ birthday and a Jw’ appealing to "what the organization tells him" about the date 1935? Is it not hypocritical when you chide the "poor deluded Catholic" that his faith cannot find a Bible passage to support it, when the same goes for you and 1935?
How do you know that there were any vacancies, if any, in the 144,000 class if Jesus offered this to first century Christians? How can the organization know the exact number of vacancies today without any records from the first century?
Why are you called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" and not "Christians"? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" then what was the "new name" prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be "Jehovah's Witnesses", for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be "Christian" after our savior "Christ"?
Why would the name God gave to His people not be "Christians" since Acts 11:26 says, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch"?
Why is the name "Jehovah's Witness" found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God's divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name "Jehovah's Witness". Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah's Witnesses"?
If the name Jehovah is so important, then why is it never used in the entire Greek New Testament? If men edited out the name of God, "YHWH" when they copied the New Testament, as only the Watchtower organization claims, then how can we have any confidence in any of the New Testament? Should we discard the New Testament or the Watchtower organization as unreliable?
If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?
What is the correct spelling of God's proper name "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? If Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that "Yahweh" is more proper, why do they misspell it "Jehovah"? If the name of God is so important, then should you not only pronounce it correctly, but spell it correctly too? Is not spelling more important than pronunciation?
Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?
What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed!
Since the Watchtower organization claims "apostolic succession" who was it that "passed the torch of God's Spirit" to C. T. Russel when he founded the organization?
In the NWT, every time the Greek word "proskuneo" is used in reference to God, it is translated as "worship" (Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 19:4, Jn 4:20, etc.). Every time "proskuneo" is used in reference to Jesus, it is translated as "obeisance" (Mt 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Lk 24:52, Heb 1:6, etc.), even though it is the same word in the Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). Especially compare the Greek word "pro
Errol Kane 9 hours ago
I'm not here to argue with you, fact is, the world knows Jehovah as Jehovah and that, whether you accept it or not, is a fact.
JEHOVAH and his 'Purpose' not Plan, will be accomplished.
Thank you for your definition of purpose however, I am aware as to the meaning of that word but I rather be in tune of the biblical meaning of it when it concerns the only true God, JEHOVAH.
There ae only 7 million people on tis earth, preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom worldwide as Jesus commanded his true followers to do and it isn't those in Fasle Religion which I was once in, believing in hellfire, Soul Leaving the Body, All good People Going to heaven, The world being destroyed by fire, and the trinity, to which those that believe in it don't truly understand it and all that believe in it aren't in agreement with each other. To honesthearted people with common sense, reasonable and with thinking abilities, such lies and confusiion should make them think. Some know the truth. But soon, False Religion will be destroyed and I pray you find the truth before it's too late.
Sorry this conversation was short. You Have a very nice day. This is where I shake the dust off my feet and move on. There will be no other responses.
levicolemagic 21 minutes ago
I appreciate the response. You responded as I would have expected you to. When faced with any of the difficult questions concerning JW's that I posed, many are instructed and will respond with the "I'm right, you are wrong. We are done." response and terminate the the debate. I don't blame you or your character for that response. It is the wool that the watchtower pulls over it's followers eyes that make it very difficult to actually debate with a JW. But the fact of the matter is, the organization has made prophecies that have not come true.
Deuteronomy 18:22:
22(A) when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken;(B) the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
The following taken from
http://christian-truths2.blogspot.com/2010/12/fail
CLAIM TO BE PROPHETS
"The Watchtower of April 1st, 1972, page 197, had this statement, "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?...These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses...Of course it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?"
Since the JW's claim to be God's prophet, we are free to put them to the Bible test for a prophet, found in Deuteronomy 18:18-20
6,000 YEARS OF HUMAN HISTORY PROPHECIES
6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page).
6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33)
6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition).
6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
ARMAGEDDON PROPHECIES
Armageddon would end in 1914. (The Time is at Hand. page 101, 1911 Edition).
Armageddon would end in 1915. (The Time is At Hand, page 101, 1915 Edition).
Today, JW's expect Armageddon any minute!
THE RETURN OF CHRIST PROPHECIES
Since Christ failed to show up for any of the Watchtower dates, JW's altered their teaching to make his coming conveniently "invisible".
Christ returned in 1874. (The Finished Mystery, pages 386, 295, 1917 Edition). The Watchtower publications taught this 1874 date right up to 1929. The "Prophecy" book published in 1929, states on page 65,
"The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D."
Christ returned in 1914. (The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life, p.87).
THE MILLENNIUM PROPHECIES
The Millennium began in 1873. (Thy Kingdom Come, page 305).
The Millennium began in 1874. (Finished Mystery, page 386).
PROPHECIES ON THE RESURRECTION
The resurrection would occur in 1878 (They Kingdom Come, page 234).
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old would return in 1925. (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89).
The Watchtower Society even published a book telling their followers to add a room onto their houses, an get an undertaker to decorate it. Undertakes, of course, would be looking for employment, since there would be no more deaths in 1926. When the room was completed, Watchtower devotees were to call up Jerusalem, where Abraham would have an office, and request that their parent be "awakened" from death. They would soon appear in the new room! (The Way to Paradise, pages 228,229).
PROPHECIES ON SPACE TRAVEL
"Man cannot by airplane or rockets or other means get above the air envelop which is about our earthly globe..." (The Truth Shall Make You Free, p. 285, 1943 edition.)
THE BOOK OF RUTH
The Book of Ruth is "not prophetical". (Watchtower Reprints IV, p.3110, 12/7/02).
The Book of Ruth "is prophetic". (Preservation", p. 169, 175, 176.)
PROPHECIES ON SODOM and GOMORRAH
Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?
1. Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8.
2. No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338.
3. Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479.
4. No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31.
5. Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179.
6. No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179.
7. Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985.
8. No...Revelation book, page 273.
These changes are more like flashing lights, on and off again. How can they be trusted?
THE "HIGHER POWERS" OF ROMANS 13:1
"Higher Powers" refers to earthly governments. (The Time is at Hand (1889) pg. 81.)
"Higher Powers" refers to Jehovah God and Jesus. (The Truth Shall Make You Free, pg.312).
"Higher Powers" refers to earthly governments. (Man's Salvation...at Hand (p.326)
Notice how the "brighter light" dimmed back again!
THE REVELATION NAME "ABADDON-APOLLYON"
Refers to Satan. (Studies in the Scriptures, (Vol. 7 pg. 159).
Refers to Jesus Christ. (Then is Finished the Mystery of God, page 232).
Quite a change!
THE "ALPHA AND OMEGA" OF REVELATION
Refers to Jehovah God. (Awake! August 22, 1978, page 28).
Refers to Jesus Christ. (Watchtower, October 1, 1978, p.15).
Notice the rapid change of "truth" and "interpretation of scripture" in just two months!
THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE
Refers to their founder, Charles Taze Russell. (Watchtowers from 12/1/16-3/1/23, pg. 68.)
Refers to the "Remnant of Spiritual Israelite" (the supposed remnant of the 144,000 "heavenly class"). (From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, page 193).
THE 1914 GENERATION FIASCO
Until October 22nd, 1995, each 'Awake' magazine proclaimed,
'...the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.'
Beginning with the November 8th, 1995 'Awake', the reference to the 1914 disappeared. Why? Because it is another false prophecy! 1914 plus 80 years (the longest time possible for a 'generation' by their own admission) ran out in 1994. This prophecy was attributed to Jehovah as 'the Creator's promise'. Therefore this particular false prophecy was done in the name of the Lord, and is subject to His condemnatory judgment on false prophets. There is not escape! Time is the enemy of a false prophet.
IN CONCLUSION
Although the official publication of the Jehovah's Witnesses claims,
"...Jehovah's witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the kingdom under angelic direction and support" according to the Watchtower of April 1, 1972, page 200, they have proved to be an embarrassment to the angels!
Undaunted, the Watchtower of July 1st, 1973, page 402, goes on to claim,
"Consider too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone in all the earth is directed by God's holy spirit or active force."
Obviously the Holy Spirit did not prompt these false prophecies!
Not only does the Bible give us a simple test for prophets, which we considered at the beginning of this tract, namely that their prophecies will fail, but the word of God has more to say about prophecies and prophesying.
The Bible reveals three sources of prophecy. One, it is from God, and inspired by Him. Two, it is from the Devil and inspired by him. Thirdly, prophecies can come out of the "flesh", or out of our "own spirit".
Since the Watchtower society of Jehovah's witnesses has so many failed prophecies, we know they are not prophesying by God's direction, and through His Holy Spirit, or by the angels.
This leaves us with two alternatives for the false prophecies of the Watchtower Society. They are from Satan, or they are from "the flesh".
The Watchtower has chosen the latter, claiming that "we all make mistakes" etc. "We have new light". Is this an "out" for them? No, for Jehovah's witnesses should carefully read Ezekiel, chapter 13. This chapter is a judgment of God on prophets who hope for a fulfillment of their words, after prophesying falsely. Verse 8, says,
"Because you have spoken falsehood and seen lie, therefore, behold, I am against you", declares the Lord God."
The Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses is a proven false prophet
You can read the article and comments page here:http://hubpages.com/hub/What-Jehovahs-Witnesses-Believe
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Why don't JWs celebrate Thanksgiving
by levicolemagic inmy first post here.
i wrote this little article about why jws don't celebrate thanksgiving.. check it out here: http://hubpages.com/hub/what-jehovahs-witnesses-believe.
let me know what you think of it.. god bless.
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levicolemagic
Much anger I sense, WWizard. -
38
Why don't JWs celebrate Thanksgiving
by levicolemagic inmy first post here.
i wrote this little article about why jws don't celebrate thanksgiving.. check it out here: http://hubpages.com/hub/what-jehovahs-witnesses-believe.
let me know what you think of it.. god bless.
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levicolemagic
true...sad but true
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38
Why don't JWs celebrate Thanksgiving
by levicolemagic inmy first post here.
i wrote this little article about why jws don't celebrate thanksgiving.. check it out here: http://hubpages.com/hub/what-jehovahs-witnesses-believe.
let me know what you think of it.. god bless.
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levicolemagic
Thankyou for all of your comments on the article so far. I plan to write others. I know the main reason they don't celebrate is the society tells them not to. I was hoping that by discussing the other reasons, Any JWs stumbling across this article would have some things to think about.
I still agree that turkeys and beheading have something to do with it. :)
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38
Why don't JWs celebrate Thanksgiving
by levicolemagic inmy first post here.
i wrote this little article about why jws don't celebrate thanksgiving.. check it out here: http://hubpages.com/hub/what-jehovahs-witnesses-believe.
let me know what you think of it.. god bless.
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levicolemagic
Truth be told when I was a witness for 17 years. My family would always have a "turkey dinner" the after Thanksgiving.
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38
Why don't JWs celebrate Thanksgiving
by levicolemagic inmy first post here.
i wrote this little article about why jws don't celebrate thanksgiving.. check it out here: http://hubpages.com/hub/what-jehovahs-witnesses-believe.
let me know what you think of it.. god bless.
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levicolemagic
"There is only one example in the Bible of Jehovah providing miraculous food, and it was MANNA, not turkeys and green bean casserole.
Also, in every instance in which turkeys are eaten for Thanksgiving, they have been beheaded.
The Scriptural Evidence™ is overwhelming!"
Love it, my article could have been so short.
Much anger I sense, WWizard.