Posts by Hoffnung

34

yet another newbie..

by ragnarok75 in

jw
friends

i've been lurking here for some time and now that i've registered here's a little bit about myself... i'm in northern europe (so english is not my own language,but i have indeed studied it for more than 18 months) and i was born into this hateful cult in the "momentuous" year of -75.good that my parents stayed alive till then!.

as far back as i can remember i had doubts both about the doctrines and the whole existence of god.however,i instinctively knew that these doubts are not to be mentioned.so i learned to be a fake at an early age.though having read many other stories here i realise how easy i got it.i now understand that we lived in a rather liberal area and also my family was quite liberal eventhough my dad was an elder since mid -80 and mom was really "strong in the truth".i never brought up the religion at school or with friends and was never bullied or anything.it helped that i was good at sports,especially football (soccer for americans) and football is also the source of my biggest hurt in childhood.i know it may sound very trivial,but the fact that i wasn't allowed to join a football team felt just so unjust and painfull and it lasted all through my childhood.whenever we had a new gym teacher,the first thing he asked me was which team do i play for.i was too embarrased to tell the truth and i just gave the impression that i only wanted to play for fun and not join any team.oh,how badly i wanted to!.

somehow i managed to silence all those doubts and got babtised as a young man.very soon after the babtism i knew that it didn't have the hoped for effect of making me more spiritual and meetings and field service still felt an absolute bore.now began the long years of just "going through the motions".all my family (parents,many brothers and sisters,uncles and aunts,nieces and nephews) and most of my friends were in.i never reached out and attended only one or two meetings a week and penned my hours.i kind of liked my congregation (also,the seats at our kh were really comfy,so i often slept through the meetings) and made some very good friends.friends that - as you all can guess- didn't turn out to be so good in the end,but with whom i nonetheless had some good times and felt a strong connection to.. for a long time nothing happened that would've disrupted my rather non-eventfull life as a lacklustre jdub with at least another foot in the "world".i'd done many things that would've gotten me d'fed,but i never had any intentions of going to the elders about it and i had no pangs of conscience about it either.it was just a matter of convenience..i liked my witness friends,wanted to hold on to them and not to lose my family.. however..there was this girl... a (worldly,of course) girl that i had absolutely fell for and had a brief romance with many years ago.now she was back in my life.i must omit the proceeding turns of events for the sake of anonymity,but the end result is that i'm a proud father of a lovely baby girl.well,not so much baby anymore as she starts school soon.i love her so much and it gives me great satisfaction that she is growing free from any influence of vicious cults or of any gods for that matter.we live now in different countries but i see her often and there's always skype.. her birth also acted as a catalyst for the change in relationship between me and the society.i decided that i wanted to share the joy of her birth and existence with my family,eventhough i also knew that that would mean i'd have to go the elders too.if i didn't,they would,and that would result in automatic disfellowshippping.. a jc was duly formed and i had decided that i'm not going to go there and tell them that i regret her,as having her is the best thing that's ever happeded to me.

Hoffnung

Welcome. Good you made it out quick enough so you can enjoy life.

Hoffnung

38

The story of Bo Juel Jensen - the man behind the Anti-Watchtower media campaign in Norway

by cedars in

hi guys.

richard e. kelly has kindly contributed a great article to jwsurvey.org on the link below.... http://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/bo-juel-jensen-could-he-be-watchtowers-worst-nightmare.

richard tells the story of bo juel jensen, an ex-witness who has been doing marvellous work in raising awareness of watchtower child abuse mishandling in norway.. as with most child abuse victims, bo's story is a disturbing one.

Hoffnung

Hey Bo,

Man you rock. Just all the media attention on the Norwegian NRK during an entire week must have rocked more than a few chairs.

Your story, although extremely painful, is even more hideous as we know it is facilitated by the WTBS policies, and that is true to this day.

I have tried to reason on this with my parents, going as far as comparing the orgs policies with those of the Protestant church, but they still believe theirs is the best.

Would it be possible to expand this beyond Norways borders? Your video on youTube was quite impressive. Are you mastering some other languages like german?

Keep it up, I like what you are doing.

Hoffnung

98

New Member-Active Elder

by Promitheas in

jw
friends

i'm a new member & i'd like to say hi to everyone, intoducing myself.. i am a 3rd generation born-in at mid 50's & an active elder.. english is not my mother language, so pls ignore any grammatical errors.

i live in a small country in europe.. i'd like to thank you for all information posted.

some of them have rally helped me to understand and examine again my beliefs.. last new light concerning f&ds=gb has verified the idea that they are popes in the position op pope.. i still believe in god & in his son jesus christ but not in the gb..

Hoffnung

Welcome Promitheas,

I also live in Europe, good to have you on board.

Hoffnung

110

Greetings from a new member

by EdenOne in

jw
friends

greetings everyone.. just wanted to say hello to everyone, being a new member from western europe.. some may know me from another forum (eden, from e-jehovas-witnesses.com), but most don't, so this is my little intro.. male, in my early 40's.

still an active member in good standing of a jehovah's witnesses congregation in my country, and honestly not planning to change that status, despite my unorthodox beliefs.

sometime i will elaborate the reason why i don't feel i must leave.

Hoffnung

Hi Eden,

I checked out your website and can identify with how you feel about it all. You made some real good points in the 2nd part of your Mission Statement. It is great you can do all this research and draw conclusions at your own pace, and just as you I was struck by the somehow peaceful way Ray Franz wrote about his own experiences inside the GB.

You wrote that meetings provided you a spiritual routine and fellowship, and you just have to weed out what you know to be incorrect. I thought like that for a while too. The problem is, or will become, you know now what it means to really see. It will be hard, if not impossible, to become blind again. The longer I kept attending meetings, the more I noticed how many points were advanced without back up from the bible, and how many verses were pulled out of context to fit an idea. In the end, the ride home after every meeting, was a discussion between my wife and me about such points we had noticed during the meeting. After about one year like this, it became obvious for us that attending meetings was a waste of time. By then, I had also stopped going in service because I could not continue spreading ideas that I knew to be falsehoods, and as a reaction to being inactive, our "friends" started to keeping their distance from us, so that took away the last reason for us to keep going.

We are both inactive now, and reconnecting with the worldly family of my wife, and making new friends, enjoying simple things like birthdays etc.

I don't know if anybody recommended it, but I would like to encourage you to read Steven Hassans book: "Releasing the Bonds, empowering people to think for themselves". You will understand better what really happens at the meetings, and why many people need a lot of time to move on after having quit being a witness.

Hoffnung

259

The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

by FaceTheFacts in

during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

Hoffnung

Thanks Ann,

it can be added that Jeremiah's words "these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years", leave completely open how the Babylonian kings go about making-the-nations-serve. Sacking the city 1st, together with plundering and taking prisoners as ransom, is defenitely one of the possibilities within the scope of Jeremiah's words. Vassalage was another option, but there is no record of that on Babylonian Chronicle 4. Either way is absolutely acceptable to fulfill the prophecy. Assyria was indeed the 1st to get the full load of the emperialistic style of having to serve Babylon, many others followed soon thereafter, as shown in the Babylonian Chronicle 4.

Another strawman of FTF debunked.

FTF, by the way, you are providing a great platform for free publicity for C.O.Jonssons great book:

The Gentile Times Reconsidered

Thanks,

Hoffnung

259

The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

by FaceTheFacts in

during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

Hoffnung

FTF, I am not even dreaming of convincing you, that was never my idea. That would be like trying to convince a born-deaf person of the beauty of music.

However, many honest-hearted others will read this and will draw the same conclusion as I did.

Hoffnung

47

2012 report analysis - countries with reduced publisher figures

by cedars in

jw
friends

i've just started munching through the figures for 2012 in the new 2013 yearbook, now available on jw.org.. i thought you might be interested to see which countries saw "negative growth" over 2012.. these are as follows.... .

*sudan is so dramatically reduced because south sudan is now independent and the society has adjusted the publisher figures accordingly.. .

countries added.

Hoffnung

also interesting how they shuffeled population numbers around in countries that moved under another branch. Quite unlikely that Luxemburg lost 15% of its population in just one year. I guess somebody had used the wrong stats in the previous years.

Hoffnung

259

The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

by FaceTheFacts in

during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

Hoffnung

So, a summary of FTF's arguments:

There is no evidence that a single nation provided tribute to the nation of Babylon in 609 B.C., thus Jonnson's hypothesis does not meet the burden of proof. it is documented that many nations had to pay the Babylonians quite heavy spoils in Babylonian Chronicle nr. 4
The challenge to anyone who said "among the nations" means something other than it says: please provide a translation of the LXX that renders "among the nations" as "with the nations". It is demonstrated by C.O.Jonsson in a long footnote on page 195, that the LXX rendering of Jeremiah 25 is defective. The context of the quotes FTF uses disprove his very argument. There is most certainly no reason at all to reject the Masoretic Text and use the LXX instead, unless you collect errors. Furthermore, the Insight book concurs with C.O.Jonsson on this point.
There is no textual basis to assert that the 70-year servitude did not apply to Judah but only to the surrounding nations. The 70 years in Jeremiah 25 specifically refers in the verses to Babylon, and its period as regional superpower, and not to the exact lenght of Judah's servitude. the very Fact this point is brought up, shows FTF does not understand what he reads, or does not want to understand what he reads in Jeremiah 25:11, 12
The perfect mood not being indicative of a continual action from the past continuing into the future, thus signifying the servitude had not yet begun by 605 B.C. in view of point 2 and 3 above, considering what shady reasonings and faulty translations you are willing to abuse to score a point, to find the exact limits in the verbal conjugaison that Jeremiah might have used in Jeremiah 25:11, 12 is a very weak foundation to build any conclusion upon.

FTF thank you for showing to the many lurkers how dishonest your reasonings are.

PS: apologies for my earlier double post.

Hoffnung

259

The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

by FaceTheFacts in

during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

Hoffnung

sorry, double post

259

The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

by FaceTheFacts in

during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

Hoffnung

FTF's so-called "the most basic argument", that there is no record of any nation paying tribute to the Babylonians, is easily debunked with Babylonian Chronicle nr. 4, describing the last few years of Nabopallassars reign. A picture of the chronicle is below.

It reads:

1 The eighteenth year of Nabopolassar(608/607): In the month Ulûlu the king of Akkad (Akkad=Babylon) mustered his army and

2 following the bank of the Tigris to the mountains of Bit-Hanunya

3 in the district of Urartu, he went up. He set fire to the cities and

4 plundered them extensively. In the month Tebêtu the king of Akkad went home.

5 The nineteenth year(607/606): In the month Simanu the king of Akkad mustered his army and

6 Nebuchadnezzar, his eldest son, the crown prince,

7 mustered his army. They marched to the mountains of Za[...].

8 The king of Akkad left the prince and his army there while he returned to Babylon in the month of Du'ûzu.

9 After his departure, Nebuchadnezzar did battle at Biranati, situated in the mountains,

10 captured Biranati, set it on fire, and took many prisoners.

11 He conquered all of the mountains as far as the district of Urartu.

12 In the month Ulûlu the prince returned to Babylon. In the month Tašrîtu the king of Akkad mustered his army and

13 marched to Kimuhu, which is on the bank of the Euphrates.

14 He crossed the river, did battle against the city, and in the month Kislîmu he captured the city.

15 He sacked it and stationed a garrison of his in it. In the month Šabatu he went home.

16 The twentieth year(606/605): The army of Egypt marched [17] against the garrison of Kimuhu

17 which the king of Akkad had stationed inside. For four months,

18 they laid siege to the city, captured it, and defeated the garrison of the king of Akkad.

19 In the month Tašrîtu, the king of Akkad mustered his army, marched along the bank of the Euphrates, and

20 pitched camp in Quramatu, which is on the bank of the Euphrates.

21 He had his army cross the Euphrates and they captured [22] Šunadiri, Elammu,

22 and Dahammu, cities of Syria,

23 and plundered them. In the month Šabatu the king of Akkad went home.

24 The army of Egypt, which was in Karchemiš, crossed the Euphrates and

25 against the army of Akkad, which was camped in Quramatu,

26 it marched. They pushed the army of Akkad back so that they withdrew.

27 The twenty-first year(605/604): The king of Akkad stayed home while Nebuchadnezzar, his eldest son

28 and crown prince, mustered the army of Akkad.

Babylonian Chronicle nr. 4 clearly demonstrates that Babylon (or Akkad in the Chronicle) took the spoil of a lot of cities in the period between 609 and 605 BCE, and that during the reign of Nabopalassar, prior to battle of Carcemish and Nebuchadnezzar ascension on the throne in 605. It can also be added that Nabopalassar had already made alliances with quite a few other nations to defeat the many Assyrian strongholds, Cyaxares, the Median King, and the Scythians are specifically mentioned. It is beyond any doubt that Babylon was the dominating partner in all these alliances.

FTF's so-called "the most basic argument", is proven to hold no ground whatsoever, and FTF dishonest reasonings are again exposed.

Hoffnung