i went back into this forum a little ways and found quite a bit of discussion on the walsh (1954) for those newly out or those who don't know of what i write, you should really check it out.
anyone who is a jw or studying with jw should see material from this trial.
my take away...the printed materials of the wtbts were to believed over the bible and if you didn't believe the wt teachings over the bible, ( even though they admit to false prophesy )you would be disfellowshipped and deserving of death.
TonusOH - “…It was fascinating to see how easily the attorney got them to admit that the most important thing was that the rank and file accept what they were told, regardless of whether or not they believed it, and regardless of whether or not it was right...”
Yup.
Thing of it is, though…
…if you’re dishonest in your attempts to claim the moral high ground, you forfeit the moral high ground.
i went back into this forum a little ways and found quite a bit of discussion on the walsh (1954) for those newly out or those who don't know of what i write, you should really check it out.
anyone who is a jw or studying with jw should see material from this trial.
my take away...the printed materials of the wtbts were to believed over the bible and if you didn't believe the wt teachings over the bible, ( even though they admit to false prophesy )you would be disfellowshipped and deserving of death.
Yup.
One difference, though…
…say what you will about those OG guys, but at least they had the balls to own that shit. How they still acquired tax-exemption after that fiasco is beyond me.
I think it’s the main reason WT Legal seems to have bent over backwards to shield the WT leadership from the courts.
I suspect that today’s GB - convinced God’s got their back - would try to lie through their teeth, get caught doing so (because of all the WT internal correspondence and documentation any legal opposition would have by then), and would be eviscerated on the stand, or worse.
If they’re forced to acknowledge, under oath, how wrong they really are about everything, it - like the testimonies of the Walsh Trial - becomes a matter of Public Record, and therefore way, way harder to hand-wave away as “apostate lies” or Satanic propaganda (particularly in the Information Age, where - like the Aussie ARC inquires - we’d have full audio and video).
I think they’d sell their souls to avoid that kind of exposure, because the inevitable loss of legitimacy and authority in the eyes of any rank-and-filer with half a brain who sees it (and I suspect there’d be a lot) would be a fucking disaster.
i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.
they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.
they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.
Historically, apocalyptic groups have actually needed to occasionally “date-set” to re-stoke waning membership zeal.
Unfortunately for the WTS, however, they’ve done it so many times that they’ll lose too much credibility… they’re stuck with “any day now, any day now, any day now”.
i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.
they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.
they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.
One things for sure, they are long past the possibility of any kind meaningful reform.
At the very least, they’ll dwindle away to a pale, whispery shadow of their former selves, to the point where regular folk are barely aware they even exist anymore.
Like the Hare Krishnas.
i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.
they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.
they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.
I think the WTS is slowly dying.
And the GB (whoever they happen to be at the time) will continue to take increasingly unethical actions to prevent it (which will, of course, ironically contribute to it)…
…whilst continuing to delude themselves right up to the moment it happens (and probably even afterward), refusing to accept it.
Just a guess.
from what i know most territory maps in most congregations are being done much much slower than before.
my congregation is very very slow getting round the territory compared to before.
then pioneers will have hour requirement coming back in march but they are just not used to getting 3hrs a day 7 days a week.. many congregations used to get round all their territory every so often, now all congregations around north london where i am (yes i’m an ms involved with territory servants) are hardly getting around their territory at all.. of course letter writing was slow going but now back to first call hardly anyone is going out in person and those few that do don’t do that much.. even the elders who are supposed to take the lead don’t seem to come out much at all and when they do i know of more than one example of them only doing ten mins maybe a few houses then going for the obligatory coffee break.
🎶 “…Yeah, yeah, yeah… do the Pioneer shuffle…” 🎶
bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
Dropoffyourkneelee - “… I have always maintained that much of his doctrinal and organizational changes were made as a knee-jerk reaction to his opposers…”
Absolutely this.
”Oh, yeah??? Shows what those fuckers know!!! Not only are we a legitimate religion, we’re the ONLY legitimate religion, because fuck you, that’s why!!! Now, pour me a fucking drink!!!”
bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
Pulled it out of his cancer-riddled ass.
is the watchtower society and watchtower literature essential for salvation according to jehovah's witnesses?.
ii timothy 3:15–17 that tells us that the word is sufficient for salvation and holiness, that the man of god might be perfect, thoroughly furnished for good works?.
people became christians, i.e., were justified and lived holy lives long before the watchtower society came on the scene.
Vanderhoven - “What makes the Watchtower Society essential to Salvation?”
The Watchtower Society says so. 🤪
after creating the first human couple, god had 100% of not submitted human creatures (0 out of 2).at the time of the flood, he had 99,9% of not submitted human creatures (8 out of thousands if not even more).. nowadays, he has 99,9% of not submitted human creatures (8 millions jws out of 8 billions humans).. but he is considered a "good" god or father of his human creatures: why then is having submitted children a requirement for christians or for being considered "good" parents as jws?.
i mean: if he does not have more than 0,1% of submitted humans, how could i do better?
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“Submission” by lower-ranking individuals is an integral component of any authoritarian ideology.
