The likeliest explanation that I read for the origin of the Noachian Deluge narrative was a sort of racial memory of the conditions found around the Middle East and Asia at the end of the last major Ice Age, around 11,000 years ago.
Posts by Vidiot
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118"Look it wasn't a global flood.."
by Qcmbr ini've heard the statement from bible apologists so many times that the global flood story of genesis was not a global flood but was probably a local flood.
this seems problematic.. this directly disagrees with the bible.
everywhere the bible internally references a global flood of worldwide scale (i'll throw in matthew 24:39 as a nt example and genesis 6:17 as a ot example.
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44
What Jesus Said About the Flood
by Franklin Massey ini was reading this debate this morning (decent arguments on both sides and an overall respectful demeanor):.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/205158/1/look-it-wasnt-a-global-flood.
much of the discussion revolved around other mentions of the flood in the bible.
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Vidiot
Plate tectonics is caused by the measured and very real currents of magma flowing under the surface of the earth's crust; the continental plates, for all intents and purposes, "float" on the mantle, and are subject to its flow. This has been confirmed and established by multiple independant sources in the field of geology for decades, now.
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Fallout 2014
by wobble income 2014 even some dubs must start to ask wtf jesus has been doing for one hundred years, and there is a big potential for many to leave.. what more will the wt bull**it (writing) department come out with to keep the poor little drones feeding the hive, and maintaining the gb's rock-star life-style ?.
the over-lapping generation tripe will be getting on for five years old by then, surely "noo lite" will shine that makes the big a even closer or somesuch ?.
come on chaps, those poor saps in writing need your best ideas.
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Vidiot
Ding - "In the past, date-setting has been what fired up the publishers and swelled the ranks. I don't think they can do that any more because of the internet and all the ex-JWs who are waiting to pounce on any new date. They'll have to try to come up with something else besides dates to fire up the troops. Does anything have any thoughts on what they might try?"
This is another substantial quandry for the WTS that can only get larger as time goes on.
I'd mentioned this in another thread, but I'll reiterate it:
Studies have clearly shown that apocalyptic millenialist groups absolutely need to date-set (prophesy) to maintain internal cohesion and continue to expand (and thusly survive). However, as Roger Ebert said, the practice has a limited shelf life; continued failed dates undermine the date-setters' credibility (eventually even with the R&F), but refraining to date-set undermines the sense of urgency vital to the groups' continued survival. If the WTS stopped stirring up End-Times anxiety, they would arguably no longer be the WTS, because stirring up End-Times anxiety is a fundamental characteristic of the WTS.
Catch-22.
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44
What Jesus Said About the Flood
by Franklin Massey ini was reading this debate this morning (decent arguments on both sides and an overall respectful demeanor):.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/205158/1/look-it-wasnt-a-global-flood.
much of the discussion revolved around other mentions of the flood in the bible.
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Vidiot
Franklin Massey - "Suppose that Jesus and the people that he was talking to fully recognized the Flood story to be a myth, or fable."
Well, it does say at Mark 4:26 that "...He would not speak to them except in parables..."
The few times I'd brought this up with Creationists, it did stop 'em short for a moment, but the mental conditioning kicked in almost immediately after. The reason for holding onto the Genesis-as-literal-history concept is ideological, rather than historical.
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What were the brothers obsession with 'The Big A' ? They wanted it so badly (and still do)
by Joliette ini've been doing research for about a year, (omg all the things that i'm finding out.
its right around the corner!
i know that life can get bad, but how is the big a gonna make things better?
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Vidiot
VM44 - "Armageddon would be the vindication of The Watchtower."
Maybe, maybe not.
I would argue that a global "apocalypse" that didn't follow the WT script would give a huge percentage of JWs pause. And by "apocalypse" I mean one or more large-scale, planetary-population-reducing events or circumstances that are profoundly mundane "real-world" phenomena, i.e. not miraculous/supernatural in nature (like the "Rapture", for example).
Other things could hypothetically do it; long-term peace in the Middle East, or the non-collapse of organized religion and/or a planetary government that wasn't hostile to it, or "first contact" with intelligent extraterrestrials, or undeniable smoking-gun evidence of evolution (like retro-engineering a dinosaur from a chicken embryo, for example).
In other words, large-scale and unexpected paradigm-shifting events.
Recent studies have strongly suggested that circumstances like these would seriously undermind fundamentalism/Biblical literalism, not because they're far-fetched, but because there is virtually no room in the fundamentalist worldview for them.
If one or more of these events took place, you might see a massive worldwide exodus away from conservative/literalist religion (including JWs), but it would get pretty ugly; the more militant strains would go kicking and screaming. Not to mention that even if authoritarian religion went extinct, authoritarianism itself would not; it seems to be hardwired in some people, religious or secular.
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This Could Turn the World Upside Down
by metatron inhttp://pesn.com/2011/01/19/9501747_cold-fusion-journals_warming_to_rossi_breakthrough/.
if you've been following the "cold fusion" controversy, you may know how difficult it has been to get opponents to get their facts straight , as many of these blogs point out.
the reporting has not been fair, accurate or unbiased.. ok, so maybe "cold fusion" is entirely misleading - but clearly, something profound is happening, that the authorities are upset about.
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Vidiot
metatron - ""Hoax" or other ad hominem attacks undermine the whole of science by the unstated assumption that scientists who replicated results are simply fools throughout the world. This bothers me as it eventually leads to a conclusion that research is so ambigous as to be futile."
Ditto; that's what I meant about "distrusting the experts" strengthening the arguments of anti-science ideologues.
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What were the brothers obsession with 'The Big A' ? They wanted it so badly (and still do)
by Joliette ini've been doing research for about a year, (omg all the things that i'm finding out.
its right around the corner!
i know that life can get bad, but how is the big a gonna make things better?
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Vidiot
Another reason is the fact that the followers of authoritarian groups in general are aware, on some level, that they're percieved as weirdos by everyone else. They hate being percieved as weirdos (who wouldn't?), but they are inherently afraid of not being the way they are, so that hate and fear manifests itself as hostility towards the environment (and in extreme cases the population of that environment) that percieves them as weirdos. In a group that eschews physical violence (like the WTS) the only alternative is a worldview that promises:
A) the weirdos' "enemies" are wiped out (by someone else, which removes the burden of guilt)
B) the (former) weirdos get to run the show afterwards
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This Could Turn the World Upside Down
by metatron inhttp://pesn.com/2011/01/19/9501747_cold-fusion-journals_warming_to_rossi_breakthrough/.
if you've been following the "cold fusion" controversy, you may know how difficult it has been to get opponents to get their facts straight , as many of these blogs point out.
the reporting has not been fair, accurate or unbiased.. ok, so maybe "cold fusion" is entirely misleading - but clearly, something profound is happening, that the authorities are upset about.
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Vidiot
bohm - "...science begins when you distrust the experts..."
Maybe so, but advocate that view too much, and all it does is appear to strengthen the arguments of the anti-science Luddites.
Everybody loses in the long run when that happens.
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This Could Turn the World Upside Down
by metatron inhttp://pesn.com/2011/01/19/9501747_cold-fusion-journals_warming_to_rossi_breakthrough/.
if you've been following the "cold fusion" controversy, you may know how difficult it has been to get opponents to get their facts straight , as many of these blogs point out.
the reporting has not been fair, accurate or unbiased.. ok, so maybe "cold fusion" is entirely misleading - but clearly, something profound is happening, that the authorities are upset about.
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Vidiot
God, I love the 21st Century.
Even if the cold fusion thing is horseshit, when you think about it, we really are on the cusp of a New System of Things in many ways. Quite ironic that it seems to be refuting so much of the WTS's ideology and eschatalogy, rather than affirming. I find it damn near impossible to imagine the WTS capable of adapting to this environment. Fragmentation maybe, like Dogpatch says, but that's about it.
PS: I realize you and I are already on the same page with regards to the bunker complex theory (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/204576/2/Is-A-Moderate-Opinion-of-the-Governing-Body-Possible), but what do you think of my further arguments for it (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/204847/4/Verifiable-Former-Bethelite-Willing-to-Answer-questions - last post on the page)?
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The Gloves Are Off - Its Official Round 1 has just taken place .. !!!!
by sleepingbeauty ini woke up today a right grumpy basket case.... not a good day for the jehovah's witness to call on me to do there usual shepherding call, bringing me the usual mags of shite!
i stood there on the doorstep in my pj's, care free and all fired up.
i was asked how i was doing & then informed that they had my latest mags.
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Vidiot
nugget - "I should imagine it will be hard for them to get the vision of a furious woman in her pjs gyrating in front of the window out of their minds for a long time."
I know I won't.
'Specially 'cause - according to her username - she's a Beauty.
Happy birthday, Beauty Jr.; I remember how good it felt when I put my foot down and let my daughters go to their best friend's birthday party.
onthewayout - "HAPPY SMURF DAY TO YOUR DAUGHTER."
LOL! Down with Smurphobia!