Posts by Vidiot

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

smiddy3 - "It`s getting to the stage where they can no longer maintain the belief that the GT / Armageddon is imminent ,eventually even the most faithful loyal one will have to acknowledge that its just not true."

hybridous - "...I don't think we can overstate just what a tough reckoning this would be for them. The whole paradigm hinges on impending Armageddon. Lots of fear to leverage with that belief."

I agree.

As I said above, there's too many unique specifics to the WTS's End-Times script that are increasingly improbable.

Not to mention that historically, apocaplyptic groups kinda have to occasionally "date-set" to maintain internal zeal...

...and due to the Bible's own rhetoric condemning the tactic, coupled with the media's record of the Org's past habit of failed predictions, the WTS is long past its effective sell-by date for that tactic; they simply don't dare try it.

Semi-committal reminders that it's "any day now" simply don't muster up real, genuine long-term enthusiasm, though. At best, the rank-and-file get worked up for a couple days of ministry work (and good luck with that these days)...

...at worst, they just feel tired of hearing it again (whether they admit it - or even realize it - or not).

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

Snakes - "So do I want the Borg to crash and burn? Yep. But not until after she is gone."

I feel more or less the same way.

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

Not to mention that there are a few unique aspects of WT ideology and eschatology that I also think may negate that possibility... that they have - for all intents and purposes - set things up too specifically for a truly effective eleventh-hour adaptation to really stick.

Think of it in terms of natural selection... as a (social) "organism", it just feels too specialized; too specifically adapted to its niche to survive the kind of changes that are occurring more and more in its environment.

One example could be the potential loss of tax-exemption that the Org's "business model" seems to have become dependent on (why else would they try so hard to keep it, after all?)...

...another would be the fact that the Org is coming under fire more and more from the secular (i.e. "worldy") legal systems of the world... which flies in the face of a prediction they've held as near-Gospel for almost a century... that "Babylon the Great" would be attacked before them.

The biggest one, of course is that despite their decades-long insistence, more and more evidence that they're simply wrong cannot help but make it increasingly difficult to maintain the fiction that the WTS is "God's Exclusive Earthly Organization"... which is - let's be honest - really the only carrot-stick combo that truly keeps the rank-and-file still loyal.

That is why most of us are here right now, after all.

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

LVC101 - "...there's always too many hurting individuals on planet earth that cling to cult promises..."

This seems to be the crux of most naysayers' argument that "the Org will never die"...

...that there will always be people who need a cult to belong to.

And I think it's probably true.

The flaw in that argument, however, is that - in my opinion - it's predicated on the assumption that that there will always be people that specifically need the WT cult...

...and I don't think that's actually the case.

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

hybridous - "This cult either has a death wish, or believes it's own BS (namely, that YHVH is going to intercede to perpetuate it's existence.)"

Every piece of anecdotal evidence we've heard here for the past twenty years indicates that it's the latter.

And every boneheaded decision they've made is exactly the kind of call a True Believer would make.

11

"She could have just walked out."

by Lost in the fog in

can you really imagine that a young teenager in a room full of stern grown-ups is going to say "i've had enough of this and i am walking out."?

i really hope it will go to trial.

utah high court weighs case of woman who says church made her listen to audio of her rape as a teenager.

Vidiot

under the radar - "I still say there will be no progress in this area unless and until they separate the sin and the criminal aspects of child abuse and handle them accordingly. The congregation can deal with the sin aspect, but they must let the secular authorities deal with the criminal aspect."

Which is why said progress will never happen.

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

And slow, steady decline into obscurity is far more permanent than some crash-and-burn (as admittedly satisfying as that would be).

Organisms that cannot or will not adapt to a changing environment are doomed to extinction, after all; it's a fundamental aspect of natural selection.

And I have a hard time imagining how a secretive, draconian, and demonstrably wrong authoritarian high-control group can truly adapt to the modern, personal-freedom-oriented, information-saturated environment of the 21st Century.

41

Watchtower View on Resurrection - All Panda Bears?

by Sea Breeze in

a recent wt study was titled: “the resurrection reveals god’s love, wisdom and patience.

apparently there was a lot of speculation on how those resurrected will be needing to be taught god’s ways in last weeks wt study.

does anyone know how the watchtower tries to weasel out of the "resurrection of damnation"?.

Vidiot

"It's called the 'nightmare stage' of wishful thinking."

I'd like to add that all cults get there, eventually.

Jonestown had reached their "nightmare stage", for example...

...their response was mass suicide and murder.

They felt backed into a corner, and chose to burn it all down rather than accept the actual truth.

52

Collapse of JW Org - Possibly on the Horizon?

by JWTom in

this topics get a great deal of discussion here.

what i find interesting is even some of my pimi family is embracing the reality that all is not well with jw.org and that many current jws are just going through the motions due to not having a good way out of the org.

wondering what could realistically lead to the collapse of jw.org in the not distant future?

Vidiot

LongHairGal - "I don’t believe it is viewed the same way it was years ago..."

Agreed; the paradigm is different, now.

Another consideration is that businesses cannot help but decline when they experience constant economic insecurity.

And I'm sorry, but in what crazy-ass, fucked-up mirror universe are constant legal troubles, steady asset and staff liquidation, and demonstrable reduction of product output (in both quality and quantity) signs of robust financial health?

43

Do You Believe In A “Deep State”?

by minimus in

jw
friends

or do you think the idea of a deep state is malarkey?

.

Vidiot

I tried to find the Deep State.

I wanted to sign up.

They wouldn't return my calls.