I'm not so confident that they are "hurting financially" as they can see the hand-writing on the wall, and are trying to pre-empt financial desperation. They obviously know more more about their financial situation than we do, and I can't imagine they would wait until they were "hurting" to start hedging themselves for the long-haul.
dontplaceliterature
JoinedPosts by dontplaceliterature
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44
The Phasing Out Of The Public Watchtower Magazine
by dontplaceliterature ini've been thinking about this for a while now.
it seems to me that the wtbts is taking steps towards phasing out public editions of the watchtower.. here are a couple of points of evidence to see there is a real possibilty for a move in this direction:.
1. the monthly "start bible studies on the initial call service day" is evidence of a more direct drive to recruit new members.
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I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...
by dontplaceliterature inmy best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.
" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.
" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?
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dontplaceliterature
Does anyone know if R. Jensen is still an active Jehovah's Witness? Does anyone know if he is a member of this site or another ex-JW forum? Just curious. I'd be interested in corresponding with him if he could be reached, and would be interested in fielding some of my questions.
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44
The Phasing Out Of The Public Watchtower Magazine
by dontplaceliterature ini've been thinking about this for a while now.
it seems to me that the wtbts is taking steps towards phasing out public editions of the watchtower.. here are a couple of points of evidence to see there is a real possibilty for a move in this direction:.
1. the monthly "start bible studies on the initial call service day" is evidence of a more direct drive to recruit new members.
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dontplaceliterature
...ok...this is just getting silly
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29
I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...
by dontplaceliterature inmy best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.
" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.
" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?
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dontplaceliterature
@GrandmaJones,
Thanks for the tips. Of course, I would approach this subject in an inquisitive, good-natured way, so as not to implicate myself. That's what I apprecaited the most about the Jensen letters. By questioning the Scriptural reasoning on whether or not we could accept certain blood fractions and not others, he exposes that this is something that the Bible is not clear about at all. This then forces the listener to question why we even have "a stance" on an issue that is so foggy in the scriptures.
We are constantly reminded to examine the "spirit" of the law. The fact is, that the Bible writers could never have fathomed that blood would have any life-saving ability via transfusion or other medical use. So, this application, in my mind, must automatically be removed from the equation. The concern, as Jensen points out, was about respect for life. I really enjoyed the comparison he draws on regarding fornication, and how just one small aspect of "porneia" would never be acceptible according to the scriptures and JW doctrine. As also with the fruit from the tree in the center of Eden. Eve likely would have faced the same penalty if she'd only eaten the skin of the fruit. She was threatened not even to "touch" it. So, Jehovah's Witness, if they want to reason from the Scriptures, should be "All or Nothing" when it comes to the use of blood it seems.
Ray Franz points to the fact though, that rules such as this are likely never to change, due to long standing tradition. (Matt 15:6) The implications of relaxing the stand regarding blood would be Earth-shattering. The resulting defection would be immense. Not to mention the lawsuits. So, they are trapped, hanging on to this teaching probably for good. If anything happens, I could see it going the other direction, with the rule becoming more strict - a complete restriciton against all blood fractions, particles, components of any sort.
There is some really solid SCRIPTURAL reasoning that exisits in these letters from Jensen. I'm glad I took the time to read them (though a bit repetitive and LONG). I'm going to start pulling all of the publication references tomorrow so I can use them in my Family Worship, if I decide to approach this subject from such a contradictory angle.
@manicmama,
We are like fleshly brothers. We have been friends since infancy. We have both exchanged "apostate" views in the past. This is not new territory for us. I would never have said anything to him if I thought there was any risk that he would report me or try to implicate me.
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44
The Phasing Out Of The Public Watchtower Magazine
by dontplaceliterature ini've been thinking about this for a while now.
it seems to me that the wtbts is taking steps towards phasing out public editions of the watchtower.. here are a couple of points of evidence to see there is a real possibilty for a move in this direction:.
1. the monthly "start bible studies on the initial call service day" is evidence of a more direct drive to recruit new members.
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dontplaceliterature
I brought this up in service today with my Service Overseer. He agreed that his gut told him the Society was moving in this direction.
By the way (With the Service Overseer driving): 2 hours in Service; 5 calls; 4 Not-At-Homes; 1 Return Visit (he was in his car pulling out of the driveway. Spoke for 1 Minute, max); 20 minutes @ McDonalds; 1hr39minute of "windshield time". A total joke, as expected. I didn't take my Bible out one time.
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29
I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...
by dontplaceliterature inmy best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.
" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.
" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?
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dontplaceliterature
@bohm
I've read half of the letters. I am now out to run an errand and won't be back to the site until tomorrow, likely. I try to avoid tinkering around here too much when my wife is home.
I can only say: WOW.
I'll probably start another thread with commentary, and perhaps even consider some of these letters with my wife and relate her comments.
Meanwhile, does anyone know if there are actual photocopies of those letters available anywhere? She would be less likely to view them as "Apostate" material, or even fake if I could have such available for discussion. I haven't made up my mind whether or not to enter them into or Family Worship discussion next week, but having a "real" copy of the letter would greatly impact my decision. Althought I hate to "steal" his reasoning points, I may feel obligated to take some notes and present the information that way, rather than reveal to her that it came from the EVIL INTERNET.
I probably won't sleep tonight. If so, I'll be back....
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29
I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...
by dontplaceliterature inmy best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.
" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.
" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?
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dontplaceliterature
I would rather my wife feel like leaving is her idea, rather than mine, if it comes to that. So, I'm going to be very subtle going forward. I don't want her to ever look back after the fact and accuse me of "poisoning" her mind or anything. I feel like she has a lot of the same thoughts, I'm just working hard to create an environment where she feels comfortable talking about them. We'll see where it leads...
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29
I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...
by dontplaceliterature inmy best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.
" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.
" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?
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dontplaceliterature
We are about to have a baby, and it's been on my mind a lot, ThomasCovenant. Neither one of us has a DPA filled out.
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29
I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...
by dontplaceliterature inmy best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.
" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.
" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?
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dontplaceliterature
My best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from The Watchtower, but I am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....So, last night, I asked my him if he thought the Governing Body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make. He said, "no." I asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the Bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a BOE would when deciding a judicial matter." I said: "Don't you think that if they were Jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, that there would be NO DOUBT about what the right course of action is? Shouldn't they be in 100% agreement about everything?" He just shrugged. I said to him: "Wait...we are told that the 'anointed class' are chosen and directed by that same spirit, so that there is no doubt in their minds as to their special relationship with Jehovah, right? Don't you think Jehovah would give an extra portion of that spirit to the 'faithful-slave' so that there would be NO DOUBT as to what course of action they should take?"
After some more exchange, he just said that he "think(s) it's Jehovah's Organization, and even if they change their mind about things, we need to follow them."
I could see that I was making him uncomfortable, so I just changed the subject.
I was very careful not to tell him that I thought the Governing Body was NOT Jehovah's instrument for Earthly direction. I just tried to ask thought-provoking questions. It amazes me, though, how quickly a Witness will defect to the standard respone: "Well...it's Jehovah's Organization, and we just have to listen to them..." The more I hear it, the more cult-like this organization seems to me. Even my wife responded this way when we talked about the blood issue last night. (She does not understand the Witness' position on this topic, but goes along with it anyway.) We are scheduled to consider this issue in our Family Worship next week (since there is THE SAME EXACT part on the Service Meeting Thursday night that we have EVERY YEAR) and I can't bring myself to pressure her into accepting the Witness doctrine on blood, when I don't fully agree with it.
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44
The Phasing Out Of The Public Watchtower Magazine
by dontplaceliterature ini've been thinking about this for a while now.
it seems to me that the wtbts is taking steps towards phasing out public editions of the watchtower.. here are a couple of points of evidence to see there is a real possibilty for a move in this direction:.
1. the monthly "start bible studies on the initial call service day" is evidence of a more direct drive to recruit new members.
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dontplaceliterature
@cyberjesus
I wouldn't be surprised if the the WTBTS got MORE money after they discontinued charging for the magazines. However, I would say that fewer and fewer people are taking the magazines, and THAT is the REAL PROBLEM.
Who knows...maybe eventually they'll just get paid donations to advise us by means of letters................