John_Mann

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Posts by John_Mann

• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

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  John_Mann

  You could argue all those points either way, but the point is that we can conceive of situations in human interactions where people with greater power (such as parents) impose real suffering on others for reasons they can't understand, but that with greater perspective is for the good.

  This reminds me the story of the Taoist farmer:
  
  This farmer had only one horse, and one day the horse ran away. The neighbors came to condole over his terrible loss. The farmer said, "What makes you think it is so terrible?"
  
  A month later, the horse came home--this time bringing with her two beautiful wild horses. The neighbors became excited at the farmer's good fortune. Such lovely strong horses! The farmer said, "What makes you think this is good fortune?"
  
  The farmer's son was thrown from one of the wild horses and broke his leg. All the neighbors were very distressed. Such bad luck! The farmer said, "What makes you think it is bad?"
  
  A war came, and every able-bodied man was conscripted and sent into battle. Only the farmer's son, because he had a broken leg, remained. The neighbors congratulated the farmer. "What makes you think this is good?" said the farmer.

  And so on...
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  "It just does", and "reality doesn't care"? Are these answers really all that different from, "it's a holy mystery"? They are the secular equivalent.

  True.

  If you don't accept mystery you cannot have it both ways.
  
  
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Yes, with or without God the problem of evil persists.

  And makes you wonder when you think billions of intentional minds try very hard to eliminate it.

  So even if without God one must accept evil is an active reality not a passive one. And an active force needs energy. From where it comes from? And why?

  Why our minds would evolve to perceive evil in first place?
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  If you wish to appeal I am open to hearing fresh evidence.....

  I really think this problem of evil will remains a total mystery because it's known since Epicurus.
  

  As I said this is your best argument and my hardest problem.

  But your hardest problem is to say WHY there's something in universe instead of nothing.

  If you're are not a nihilist you accept there's a why or is possible to exist a why. And our very minds need "whys". A nihilist by definition would not even care about a topic about "purpose".

  I think theism vs atheism can be resumed to this two problems.

  I enjoy to discuss with you. You're a very clever person.
  
  
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  The god of Jesus does not exist. Case closed.

  Indeed everyone is a judge in this case. This case is very relevant to our internal sense of justice.

  My sentence is total different from yours.

  I know I can't know everything that's why I accept the existence of mystery.

  All I know is we simply cannot be both right. I'm not a relativist and I think you're not one too.

  Good luck.

  
  
  
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  The one thing I would add is that my argument is very specifically about "natural evil". In other words suffering that is not a result of human action but which occurs as a direct consequence of the way god designed the world.

  This is the hardest problem in theology and the reason for that is a complete mystery. Even Saint Augustine declared total mystery about this problem.

  Not just related to human suffering but related to non human animals too.

  Indeed this is your best argument, cofty.
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Not one single word you have just typed addresses my question about the hiddenness of god.

  It's the best answer I know.
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Then how do you explain the hiddenness of god?

  Liberty.

  We are in a time of test. Our lifetimes here on earth will show if we freely want to live with God or not.

  This choice can only be made while we are alive. After death your intentions throughout your life will be fixed in your soul forever with no turning back.

  Why no turning back? The free will our souls possess will be over in Heaven? No second chances after death?

  Yes.

  Why?

  Because if you are confronted with two extreme unequal choices you lose your ability to freely choose. After death you will be able to see God and his reality in all his Glory. That would be the equivalent of a choice between receiving for free a marble and gold palace or a piece of chalk.

  You can't use your freedom of choice in a situation like that. So God indeed intentionally hides His total Glory (reveals indirectly only a very little fraction of it) from us in this period in our lives.

  That's why we say a man cannot see the Glory of God without dying. A man without its total freedom of choice is not a man anymore.

  Freedom of choice needs total privacy too, that's why your mental intentions cannot be read by anyone. You have total privacy about your deepest thoughts/intentions.

  You can change your intention as you wish while alive, you even can change it in your last breath. After that your will/intention will be fixed forever in your soul.
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  The debate is not between two sorts of evidence - it is between evidence and faith. There is no contest.

  I can assure you that I'm not interested in a contest of this kind.

  Actually the Catholic Church is officially interested in a dialogue with Atheism. Because Atheism is really valid to a lot of concepts of God.

  Sola Scriptura interpretation of Bible is considered a heresy to CC and is responsible for a lot of distorted concepts of God. The concept of Jehovah by JW's is an aberration. I'm an atheist to this concept of God.

  Sometimes I think atheists here only consider the JW or the pentecostal concept of God.

  But what's the point to use Atheism towards concepts from Buddhism or ancient concepts of God like Brahma?

  Clearly there's concepts of God that modern Atheism doesn't apply.

  What's the point to argue with evolution to religions that accept evolution entirely like Catholicism and Buddhism?

  Clearly there's a lot of harmful things in JWism like shunning and refusal of blood transfusions. But if someday they abolish these doctrines they would become harmless IMHO. They would be just a group with crazy ideas about science and theology, nothing more.

  But what really is so harmful in traditional Christianity, like Catholicism or Lutheranism, for example?

  Atheists and theists have ideological enemies in common, like Nihilism.

  Nihilism says life can't be meaningful by any way so the only thing to do is dive in a radical Hedonism and Cultural Relativism. And this thought is really dangerous to society.

  Atheists and theists are both existencialists, they're opposed to Nihilism. Both think life can have meaning.

  Atheists say you alone can build a meaning for life and they advise for a good and peaceful meaning. Atheists want to be good people, this is a fact.

  Theists say that life has a meaning already set by God.

  
  
  

  
  
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  It runs scared from reason and science every time.

  Could you expand this assertion?