John_Mann

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Posts by John_Mann

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  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

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  John_Mann

  Globicephala melas: "For the first time, we show that a species of dolphin has more neocortical neurons than any mammal studied to date including humans
  

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4244864/
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  John_Mann

  The study of soul predates Christianity.

  While the soul cannot be reached through the scientific method it's reached through philosophy and is a philosophical subject of study. I think the only "leap of faith" is the soul is immortal or not. If you think the word soul is too much religious you can use the word software. The word soul was originated outside religion.

  It can be reached through intuition too. Search your own intuition and you will see.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  - What exactly is the soul?

  Every soul is created directly by God at the moment of conception. The soul is non-physical and is created from the metaphysical nothing (nihil). The soul is very simple in structure and have no parts. The soul being created directly by God is a perfect structure. Having no parts it can't disintegrate so it's immortal.

  - What does the soul do?
  - What function(s) is the soul responsible for?

  The soul is simple in structure but complex in function. Basically it's responsible for our will, intellect and abstract memory. It enhances all the mind properties produced by the brain too.

  - What function(s) is our brain responsible for?

  The brain indeed is responsible for some properties of our minds (the immortal soul is just a part of our minds). The brain produces what is called physical soul (or animal soul). This soul is mortal. Our immortal soul is connected with this physical soul. Catholicism say that humans have three souls: spiritual (Psyche), animal (anima, nephesh) and vegetative soul. The very union of the immortal soul and the physical soul is what is partially broken in humans. This physical soul is responsible for an instinctive will that is opposed to the spiritual will.

  - What proof do you have that it is the soul and not our brain that controls every aspect of our consciousness?

  There are animal brains much more sophisticated than humans and they don't produce consciousness. We have mental abilities not traceable to other species, so we have mental properties coming out of the blue (not traceable to biological evolution) like the sense of justice, beauty, perfection and infinity, etc. The gap between human mind and the other animals is practically infinite. How do you explain the Internet to your smart dog and cat?

  - Where is the soul hiding? Area after area of the brain has yielded up its secrets to the probing of neuroscience, and not a trace of it has been found.

  The soul is spiritual or metaphysical it can't be detected by scientific method.
• 
  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  John_Mann

  Our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  Our consciousness is unique but not our brains. Dolphins and whales have much more massive and sophisticated brains than humans.

  If consciousness is a by-product of brain, dolphins would have super consciousness.

  Why dolphins don't have at least a similar human intelligence?

  They are totally isolated from humans too. They could developed intelligence without human competition.

  How do you explain that?
  
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  that means we are back to a God that isn't all-knowing and all-powerful. Because if he were those things then he would have been capable of "introducing consciousness" to humankind without screwing it up.

  This full process was meant to be a two way deal. The first souled humans screwed up. Protestants affirm the human nature was totally broken (total depravity) and Catholics say the human nature was not totally broken.

  This is not what I envisioned but this is the mainstream Christian view. The fundamentalist view of Genesis is a very recent approach in history.

  Atheists here seems only to know the JW version of Christianity.
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  If eternal heaven is the greater good then is human existence on a hostile earth some kind of experiment? game? entertainment for God?

  Humans came to existence by natural laws (evolution).

  They developed a very sophisticated mind but they were not conscious (That's why Adam and Eve didn't knew about good and bad). They were just like the bicameral men proposed by Julian Jaynes.

  In a very recent point in history (in Mesopotamia) God elevated human nature by giving an immortal soul to a couple of "bicameral" humans (Adam and Eve). This soul enables humans to have consciousness.

  This process of unification between physical and spiritual nature in humans was interrupted by this couple someway somehow.

  So the full double (physical + spiritual) human nature was broken.

  This broken human nature are being repaired in a masterplan since then and will be complete in the Last Judgment.
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  But if natural evil is someway somehow necessary to accomplish a greater good like eternal heaven?

  We see a lot of examples of necessary evil is needed to get a greater good. Like medical procedures.

  We also must consider the very nature of God is the source of necessary laws that must be applied to all possible worlds.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Why?
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  But if he is exists then by his own definition of love he is unloving.

  Cofty, try to suspend the property of existence in our conversation about God.

  Pretend we are making a fictional character. But we want a logically consistent character with our known universe.

  In this scenario do you think is impossible to build an all-loving and all-powerful being with the existence of natural evil?
  
  
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Or maybe God is constrained by certain things.

  He is. He is only constrained by His nature. That's why the God's nature (Godhead) is a complete mystery.
  

  He can't lie and He can't be evil.